Fish disappearing with seemingly no symptoms

[barkingwithdogs]

My first post on this forum and I'm disappointed it's for such a negative reason.

 

Summary: 4 month old tank. kH swing, no other parameter issues. 4 dead fish. 1 surviving one has signs of bacterial infection or ich. No symptoms on other fish. All corals are fine. 

 

I am running a 90 litre reef tank. It's the aquamanta nano 60. It's been going very well. My first marine tank in several years, but not a total novice to it. I gradually added fish to it, but did rush things with corals I'll admit. 

Started using a dosing pump to maintain kH, and that was fine, but not dosing quite enough. So I upped it but made a mistake and had kH jump from about 6.2 to 10.6 over the course of about a week, maybe less. I lost my acros, which was not a surprise. They were only small frags that I had been given to experiment with. They'd actually grown well surprisingly. 

My montipora is being eaten by nudibranch. Which I am dealing with and slowly winning that fight. 

Corals in the tank are montis, an acro, cataphyllia, lobo, candy cane and some zoas. So sps and lps mix mostly. 

 

About a week prior to the kH swing. I added an Orchid dottyback. I actually regretted this straight away, because it was larger than I anticipated. It hid away, and was not aggressive and eventually started to show its face more. It was a nice addition after all. After about 2 weeks in the tank, I found it dead under my acans, being chewed upon by a hermit crab. These things happen. But then my possum wrasse disappears a few days after this. He was very confident and now I haven't seen him for a week, presumed dead. Then my pipefish died. 

 

Yesterday, I noticed what looked like either some sort of bacterial infection or ich on my high-fin goby. But he seems okay. My bangai cardinal had no symptoms and was actually more confident than any time I have had it previosuly (he was the first fish in the tank and always stuck to one area). Last night he was swimming about the tank fine. Although, at feeding, he did not seem as keen as usual. 

 

Today, he is missing. No sign of him. Like the others, I can only assume he's dead. 

 

So that's 4 out of 5 fish dead. My fire shrimp and cleaner shrimp are still alive. And other than the dead acros and chewed up montipora, all my corals are doing well. I would have thought an issue would have effected them first. 

 

Test results done just now: 

kH: 8.2

Phosphate: 0.08 - 1

Nitrate: 10

Nitrite: 0 

Salinity: 1.025

 

Does anyone have any idea what could be going wrong? 

 

Tank is 4 months old.

[Clown79]

Besides a predator in the tank, I would suspect illness. 

 

 

 

 

[gena]

From what you've described, I would suspect the dottyback came in with a parasite and it infected everyone else.  Especially since you are seeing infection/ich on your high-fin.  Really sorry to hear this.  

[Ohmegg]

Could be oodinium not ich. It kills within days. 

[banasophia]

Oh no so sorry about your fish losses. Agree that it sounds like the dottyback may have brought in an illness. Might be helpful to post pics of your fish that is sick to try to get a more definitive ID so you can decide what to do. I would also check the ammonia level just to be sure it’s not elevated. Very sorry. 😢

[barkingwithdogs]

Apologies for the below average photo quality. 

 

Here's the only physical symptoms I've seen on any of the fish. This is the last one standing. 

[banasophia]

I’m so sorry. 😢 We can try to tag @Humblefish and see if he can help. Also hopefully others can chime in… I don’t know a whole lot about fish diseases, but I think it’s good to ID so you could try to treat your remaining fish and also to know what to do if you lose him, like how long to keep your tank fallow for example before introducing fish again. 

[Humblefish]

Can you catch the goby and give him a 5 min FW dip to check for flukes?

 

More info on Flukes: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402275-flukes-fish-disease-information/

 

How to do a freshwater dip: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/401919-freshwater-dip-fish-treatment-information/

[banasophia]

54 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Can you catch the goby and give him a 5 min FW dip to check for flukes?

 

More info on Flukes: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402275-flukes-fish-disease-information/

 

How to do a freshwater dip: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/401919-freshwater-dip-fish-treatment-information/

You are so awesome - thanks for your reply! 🤗

[barkingwithdogs]

Thank you for your concern @banasophia

 

@Humblefish I was reading earlier about a freshwater dip. Was reluctant to stress the fish out further, but if I can catch him, I will give it a go. 

 

Reading your link about flukes. There's not a lot of symptoms that match. The symptoms seem more in line with velvet. Would a FW dip be best to rule out flukes? Could you explain why you think flukes to help me understand. Thank you for your time. It's really appreciated.

 

Edit: the goby still has a really good appetite and is actively taking lobster eggs out of the water. 

The cleaner shrimp has been obsessed with the goby the last few days since symptoms appeared. It's been really pulling at him. It was always interested in him as the only fish it could reach but now it's taken it to the extreme. Not sure how relevant that is.

[Humblefish]

18 hours ago, barkingwithdogs said:

Reading your link about flukes. There's not a lot of symptoms that match. The symptoms seem more in line with velvet. Would a FW dip be best to rule out flukes? Could you explain why you think flukes to help me understand. Thank you for your time. It's really appreciated.

What I see on the fish (from the picture) resembles flukes. The spots look more translucent to me than solid white.

 

However, if flukes do not drop off during the dip then it was not a wasted effort because exposure to freshwater also provides temp relief for Velvet. You would just need to treat in a QT afterwards, using copper, for complete eradication of velvet.

 

More info on copper treatment: 

 

[mcarroll]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:47 PM, barkingwithdogs said:

4 month old tank. kH swing,

The alk swing (the dip part, actually.....your dosing after the fact was totally fine) did in your corals.

 

Unrelated to the fish tho.

 

It was the 4 month old tank that got the fish (too soon for too many fish)...possibly along with the purchase method complicating things.  

 

Were they bought from a local shop?  If so, did you have at least a week or two to observe the fish at the shop before bringing them home?  

 

If they were purchased sight unseen (eg online) then that's another gotcha.   You need to be able to pre-screen your fish quite well if you want to add them straight to your tank.

 

Disease outbreaks should be expected from fish that have recently been stressed by something major like (eg) shipping.  If you're in this situation, the use of micron filtration, UV filtration and/or a tank treatment along the lines of those from Ruby Reef would all be recommended.  

 

With those tools and only a little reading and luck, most common disease outbreaks can be totally avoided.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 4:48 PM, barkingwithdogs said:

Would a FW dip be best to rule out flukes?

Assuming you can easily catch the fish, a freshwater dip is a good idea for almost any suspected parasite.

 

(Catching the fish can cause more stress than it's worth in some scenarios....maybe not the case in your tank since he's the only fish left.)

 

For what it's worth I've never seen flat worms ("flukes") on a goby, or other fish that small.....but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

Flat worms are almost never lethal either....so the fact that you've lost fish also suggests something else (eg Ich or Velvet) at work.

 

Try to get pictures of the dip water after he comes out if there's any doubt whether there are flat worms or not.   Having a black background will help any (white) parasites to stand out better.

 

Going forward, try to follow the reefer's mantra:  Nothing Good Happens Fast In A Reef Tank. 🙂 

[barkingwithdogs]

@mcarroll

 

Only just seen your comment. Been away from the forums for a month. 

 

You're spot on with your advice, and the fallow period (except for 1 fish) is doing me good to learn a bit of patience. All fish were bought from a store I trust and I had observed EXCEPT for the Orchid Dottyback. Couldn't get one anywhere near me so jumped at the chance. Lost it within a week and everything else got ill. The Hi-fin goby has healed up lovely and is doing really well. 

[rough eye]

my two cents: don't get another pipefish. also avoid seahorses, mandarins, dragonets, etc. not saying this caused your problems, but that one was bound to go quick.

[barkingwithdogs]

@rougheye what makes you say that?

 

[rough eye]

3 hours ago, barkingwithdogs said:

@rougheye what makes you say that?

 

pipefish: expert level fish that do best in groups and need s 50 gallon tank minimum that has been established at least a year, and should be kept with other very peaceful species. the others i listed are also expert level fish that have very special needs.

[rough eye]

is a very good place to learn which fishes might be a good idea. also liveaquaria.com has lots of useful info.

[barkingwithdogs]

Thank you for your advice. 

 

It was only a blue stripe pipe fish. So no bigger than a couple of inches and it had been instore feeding well for months before I bought it. My mistake was adding more aggressive fish though that I won't do for my next stocking

[rough eye]

6 minutes ago, barkingwithdogs said:

Thank you for your advice. 

 

It was only a blue stripe pipe fish. So no bigger than a couple of inches and it had been instore feeding well for months before I bought it. My mistake was adding more aggressive fish though that I won't do for my next stocking

you should probably read up on any species you plan to purchase. personally i wouldn't be brave enough to try an expert level fish in smaller than recommended tank size. 

[Tired]

Blue stripe pipefish will thrive in any tank with enough pods. They're not really expert-only, I'd say. You shouldn't put them in a tank that young unless they're eating prepared foods and you're feeding multiple times a day, but a mature tank with lots of pods will house one no problem. Easier to keep fed than a mandarin, because they're little, and easier than other pipefish because, again, small. They can work fine in a nano. If this tank was heavily mature, without aggressive fish or too much pod competition, I'd say go for one. Provided it's eating prepared foods and you feed it at least once a day. 

 

Sounds like something brought in a disease, and like your tank was stocked too fast, which wouldn't help much. 

[rough eye]

25 minutes ago, Tired said:

Blue stripe pipefish will thrive in any tank with enough pods. They're not really expert-only, I'd say. You shouldn't put them in a tank that young unless they're eating prepared foods and you're feeding multiple times a day, but a mature tank with lots of pods will house one no problem. Easier to keep fed than a mandarin, because they're little, and easier than other pipefish because, again, small. They can work fine in a nano. If this tank was heavily mature, without aggressive fish or too much pod competition, I'd say go for one. Provided it's eating prepared foods and you feed it at least once a day. 

to me that sounds like expert level. too expert for my skills, at least.

[Tired]

"Mature tank, feed at least once a day" is definitely not expert. Someone with six months experience and a tank started with ocean rock could keep one. Expert-only fish are things more like some of the butterflies, some filefish, things that don't reliably eat prepared foods and can't be kept fed just by microfauna in a reasonably sized tank. Most pipefish and seahorses are in that category, but being small enough to fend for itself means the bluestripe pipe is more of an intermediate. 

[barkingwithdogs]

Yeah the blue-stripe pipe fish is pretty easy to keep as long as its feeding in captivity. It probably would have been happier with a more mature aquarium but I poured loads of live copepods in and it fed well. 

[jesseatam]

Everyone gets burned due to a lack of quarantine at least once, myself included. I'd set up a quarantine system if you plan on adding multiple fish again in the future. After I had an ich wipeout I ended up with a massive cyano bloom as well due to what I believe to was a lack of nutrients. If you do end up losing all your stock, try to make sure you still have some type of nitrate/phosphate source for your corals and to also avoid any unwanted algal blooms.