New to Saltwater - seeking constructive criticism

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Hi, currently in the process of setting up a 5.5 US gal tank I got for free from FB marketplace. I'm new to full saltwater keeping but not new to aquarium keeping generally; I decided to go with a saltwater tank for this one as I have a brackish paludarium waiting for me to source livestock for it, so lots of 'salty' equipment already lying around doing nothing. As I'm new to this I'd appreciate a critique on my plan for the set up. 

 

Size: 5.5G

Specific gravity: 1.025 

Temp: 26*C 

Planned stocking: mexican turbo snail, nasarrius snail, 2x Colin's fairygobies and either a featherduster OR a shrimp (probably not both) and Green star polyps and zoas - but I'm planning on adding all livestock very very slowly

Probably also some macroalgae for water quality management

25% water changes twice a week 

 

I've already got it set up with lights (one 6300K white and a dark blue, both LED), pump, sand, and 3kg of mature liverock from an established set up. The guy who gave me the rock also said he's happy to help mentor me if I want. 

 

So far my biggest issue is pH - it's stubbornly sat at 7.8 and will NOT go any higher. This is despite a hugely high kH of 19. (This is with my tapwater, which comes out of the tap very very high already) but I'm going to be investing in an RO system at some point in the very near future.

 I wanted a pH of about 8.2, but am also not a fan of 'chasing' pH as it oftentimes seems to generate more issues than it solves. Will this pH be a problem? 

 

Oh and I should say I'm currently using API to test my water but am probably going to swap to salifert as I've had some quality issues with API for both my salt and freshwater test kits recently which is making my doubt their reliability....

 

Any other constructive criticism would be appreciated (but be nice lol). 

 

[Pjanssen]

Until you get your ro/di system up and running, you should either be purchasing it from a LFS or using distilled from your local grocery store. A kH of 19 is crazy high IMO. Tap water also generally has high TDS which will lead to problems, especially in a small tank. 

As far as 25% water changes 2x a week, that seems excessive to me, but wait for someone with a pico tank to chime in on that.

No reason you can't have a shrimp and a feather duster. The feather duster will need to be fed phytoplankton daily.

It's great to have a mentor and an experienced reefer nearby to help. Nano-Reef has a great group of people happy to give advice and share their knowledge. The best advice all experienced reefers will give you is to take it slow and do your research on anything you plan to add to your tank, whether it be livestock or supplements.

[M. Tournesol]

Welcome to nano reef 😉

1 hour ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

I wanted a pH of about 8.2, but am also not a fan of 'chasing' pH as it oftentimes seems to generate more issues than it solves. Will this pH be a problem? 

you should no be too worry about the ph as it will vary between day and night as corals/algae stop photosynthesis and the oxygen level lower.
A good salt and RO will do the trick. 
 
By curiosity, what is the lifespan of Colin's fairygobies. I cannot find it in this genus Tryssogobius guide: https://reefbuilders.com/2015/05/26/tryssogobius-tuesday-guide-genus-fairy-gobies/
I do know that smaller gobies of the genus Eviota have a lifespan of at most 59 days.

[DaJMasta]

Agreed that that alkalinity is pretty crazy, to the point of being problematic to potential things to add.  You may even have issues growing coralline, and since it's residual from the water supply, we wouldn't actually know what was in that water short of an ICP test - there could be plenty of other things in that water that could be problematic for a variety of reasons.

 

The solution would either be RO water or distilled water.  You can sometimes get an inexpensive RO system from a local club or classified, but before than and potentially in place, distilled water will work just fine.  I would get your alkalinity down substantially before you add anything, and hopefully the water change(s) that do that will take out other contaminants not tested for.  It's also essential that the water you add to compensate for evaporation is either distilled or RO, as this will just continuously build up whatever is in your tap water in the tank if it is not.

 

I personally haven't seen Colin's fairygobies for sale before, but the little info I've seen suggests they'd be fine, alternatives could be something like the sharknose or neon goby.  Also agree that 25% WC per week is probably more than is needed unless you are feeding a lot - and it doesn't sound like you will have that many things to feed.  I would go with a shrimp over a featherduster as a featherduster will want regular particulate food whereas most shrimp are fine with pellets/frozen/whatever.  They're more interactive too and there are plenty of types that could work in that tank.

Testing to see what's going on is a great habit to be in, but weekly water changes with clean water made to the right salinity will probably do almost all of the heavy lifting in terms of regular maintenance and keeping your parameters in line.

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Just now, DaJMasta said:

Agreed that that alkalinity is pretty crazy, to the point of being problematic to potential things to add.  You may even have issues growing coralline, and since it's residual from the water supply, we wouldn't actually know what was in that water short of an ICP test - there could be plenty of other things in that water that could be problematic for a variety of reasons.

 

The solution would either be RO water or distilled water.  You can sometimes get an inexpensive RO system from a local club or classified, but before than and potentially in place, distilled water will work just fine.  I would get your alkalinity down substantially before you add anything, and hopefully the water change(s) that do that will take out other contaminants not tested for.  It's also essential that the water you add to compensate for evaporation is either distilled or RO, as this will just continuously build up whatever is in your tap water in the tank if it is not.

 

I personally haven't seen Colin's fairygobies for sale before, but the little info I've seen suggests they'd be fine, alternatives could be something like the sharknose or neon goby.  Also agree that 25% WC per week is probably more than is needed unless you are feeding a lot - and it doesn't sound like you will have that many things to feed.  I would go with a shrimp over a featherduster as a featherduster will want regular particulate food whereas most shrimp are fine with pellets/frozen/whatever.  They're more interactive too and there are plenty of types that could work in that tank.

Testing to see what's going on is a great habit to be in, but weekly water changes with clean water made to the right salinity will probably do almost all of the heavy lifting in terms of regular maintenance and keeping your parameters in line.

Ok - so I'll start looking for an RO unit. I should have said, I'm actually in the UK and I think a lot of people here are in the US, but I know of at least two online stores stocking Colin's fairygobies 🙂 I think when I'm stocking instead of following a tight schedule on water changes I'll just keep testing until the tank reaches a nice equilibrium and I know how regularly it needs maintenance to keep my parameters in check. 

Thanks everyone for the great advice, really useful. 

[Clown79]

Definitely use distilled water that hasn't been remineralized or rodi. That KH is way too high. I have very hard water too and it created nothing but issues in my freshwater tanks, I could never use it in SW. 

 

25% is excessive 2 times a week. I did 10-15% weekly in my 5.5g and i had 2 fish in there. 

 

Waterchange frequency and size should be based on nutrient levels. You don't want 0 nitrate or 0 phos.

 

Ph fluctuates all day long as is effected by lighting. This is a parameter i wouldn't focus on but rather alkalinity, calcium, and nutrients.

 

You can definitely have a feather duster and shrimp but i would add the feather duster later on. They are sensitive to new tanks and parameter swings.

[Pjanssen]

There are several UK reefers on here. I think someone even started a thread about the lot of you!

 

[Murphs_Reef]

1 minute ago, Pjanssen said:

There are several UK reefers on here. I think someone even started a thread about the lot of you!

 

Oi! Us lot??!! 😂😂 Janssen you already said my tank was boring this week 🤣🤣

[Murphs_Reef]

3 hours ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

Ok - so I'll start looking for an RO unit. I should have said, I'm actually in the UK and I think a lot of people here are in the US, 

I'm Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire, USA 🤣🤣

[Tritone]

6 hours ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

Ok - so I'll start looking for an RO unit. I should have said, I'm actually in the UK and I think a lot of people here are in the US, but I know of at least two online stores stocking Colin's fairygobies 🙂 I think when I'm stocking instead of following a tight schedule on water changes I'll just keep testing until the tank reaches a nice equilibrium and I know how regularly it needs maintenance to keep my parameters in check. 

Thanks everyone for the great advice, really useful. 

I recommend you strongly to leave tap water alone and before you go investing on a RODI device stabilise your tank with ready made one. If you’ve mastered salt water mix already, excellent, if not, once again fill your new tank with Natural Sea Water. You’re seeding your new tank for years to come.

 

x

[rough eye]

the best advice i know to give:

 

DO NOT ask something with a high probably of failure, such as "i'd like to put a lion fish in my 5 gallon pico reef," and then after several people have said not to do it, rush out and do it anyway.

 

Speaking of rushing, please remember that is no "last chance." there's always another, better opportunity so don't feel the need to rush into anything. Always better to wait and be sure.

 

Oh, and for a tank that small I'd just buy distilled or RODI water and mix it rather than get a RODI filter. 

[Pjanssen]

41 minutes ago, Tritone said:

I recommend you strongly to leave tap water alone and before you go investing on a RODI device stabilise your tank with ready made one. If you’ve mastered salt water mix already, excellent, if not, once again fill your new tank with Natural Sea Water. You’re seeding your new tank for years to come.

 

x

Strongly agree with this.

 

I also wouldn't bother with a RODI unit for a tank this small. Use either distilled or find a local fish store that sells RODI. 

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Would it not be cheaper to buy a small unit than be continuously purchasing water? 

[M. Tournesol]

Not cheaper, but it's much more practical.

 

An AQUA MEDIC Osmoseur Easy Line 300(RO) cost around 60€.

An AQUA MEDIC Demineralisation filter(DI) cost around 55€.

 

This give you a RO/DI system for 120€ (my combo) and a Ro system for 60€.

Edited August 10, 2021 by M. Tournesol
Maybe not cheaper => Not cheaper

[Ratvan]

15 hours ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

Ok - so I'll start looking for an RO unit. I should have said, I'm actually in the UK and I think a lot of people here are in the US, but I know of at least two online stores stocking Colin's fairygobies 🙂 I think when I'm stocking instead of following a tight schedule on water changes I'll just keep testing until the tank reaches a nice equilibrium and I know how regularly it needs maintenance to keep my parameters in check. 

Thanks everyone for the great advice, really useful. 

Have a look and see if you have a Spotless Water outlet anywhere near you, 0 TDS water and works out cheaper than a RODI unit until you start hitting over 100 litres per week

 

What are the online stores out of interest?

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

2 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Have a look and see if you have a Spotless Water outlet anywhere near you, 0 TDS water and works out cheaper than a RODI unit until you start hitting over 100 litres per week

 

What are the online stores out of interest?

The online stores stocking them currently they I've found are 

https://www.marineworldaquatics.co.uk/products/nano-goby-blue-eye-tryssogobius-colini-fish-marine-world-aquatics?_pos=1&_sid=19b34844d&_ss=r

 

And (though this is currently sold out) 

 

https://saltyrevolution.co.uk/hs-fish-03/dwarf-dartfish

Also my lfs does 25 litres of RO for £5 or free of charge when you purchase £5 of other dry goods, so I think I'll be using them - especially as I've currently got a £35 gift voucher for them 😅 🙂

[M. Tournesol]

5 gallon = 19 liter. 
For 20% water change every week, this will cost you £39 each year.

If you deduce your £35 gift voucher, it will cost you about 3 peanuts for the first year 🧐.

[Ratvan]

10 minutes ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

The online stores stocking them currently they I've found are 

https://www.marineworldaquatics.co.uk/products/nano-goby-blue-eye-tryssogobius-colini-fish-marine-world-aquatics?_pos=1&_sid=19b34844d&_ss=r

thats my LFS

 

the gift voucher is a good idea

[Pjanssen]

2 hours ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

Would it not be cheaper to buy a small unit than be continuously purchasing water? 

I'm not so sure.

I purchased what I thought would be a "small" unit when I upgraded to a 55 gallon (200 liter) tank. It is much bigger than I expected, and since I don't have a place to permanently install it, I have to lug it in and out of the garage. Also, for every liter of water that you make, you are going to flush 3-4 times that down the drain. I don't know about over there, but water over here is not so cheap right now. So I purchased a second RO membrane which is suppose to be a water saver (add another $55 U.S. to the cost of the unit.). I also don't have enough water pressure, so I had to buy a booster pump-add another $80 U.S.

Perhaps over time, I will recoup the cost of the unit and start saving money, but with you only needing a gallon or 2 a week of RODI per week, it will be a long time before you recover the cost.

Also, you keep saying RO unit. You need to make sure you are getting RO/DI which is a little more involved. Distilled from the grocery store will be more pure than just RO water.

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Just now, Pjanssen said:

I'm not so sure.

I purchased what I thought would be a "small" unit when I upgraded to a 55 gallon (200 liter) tank. It is much bigger than I expected, and since I don't have a place to permanently install it, I have to lug it in and out of the garage. Also, for every liter of water that you make, you are going to flush 3-4 times that down the drain. I don't know about over there, but water over here is not so cheap right now. So I purchased a second RO membrane which is suppose to be a water saver (add another $55 U.S. to the cost of the unit.). I also don't have enough water pressure, so I had to buy a booster pump-add another $80 U.S.

Perhaps over time, I will recoup the cost of the unit and start saving money, but with you only needing a gallon or 2 a week of RODI per week, it will be a long time before you recover the cost.

Also, you keep saying RO unit. You need to make sure you are getting RO/DI which is a little more involved. Distilled from the grocery store will be more pure than just RO water.

 

 

Ok.....this is the unit I'm looking at. Would it do what I need please? I'll acknowledge my budget is fairly limited. 

https://www.finerfilters.co.uk/finerfilters-4-stage-reverse-osmosis-unit-with-di-resin-filter-for-tropical-marine-discus-100-gpd.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaq3k7Vq_2IJLdKcpBWhjznnxl_e5KvpXXuLHYb_xlHYCQvnYY3ExTwBoC1jQQAvD_BwE

 

 

honestly starting to think buying water might be easier. I didn't realise it was so cheap to purchase from the LFS though. 

[Pjanssen]

5 minutes ago, InAtTheDeepEnd said:

 

 

Ok.....this is the unit I'm looking at. Would it do what I need please? I'll acknowledge my budget is fairly limited. 

https://www.finerfilters.co.uk/finerfilters-4-stage-reverse-osmosis-unit-with-di-resin-filter-for-tropical-marine-discus-100-gpd.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaq3k7Vq_2IJLdKcpBWhjznnxl_e5KvpXXuLHYb_xlHYCQvnYY3ExTwBoC1jQQAvD_BwE

 

 

honestly starting to think buying water might be easier. I didn't realise it was so cheap to purchase from the LFS though. 

That actually looks like a pretty nice unit, and a bit more compact than mine, and seems like a good price. But you will also need a pressure gauge and a TDS meter, so add that to the cost. Plus, if you are like me and have low water pressure, then you will need to purchase a booster pump as well.

[Clown79]

Another thing to consider is cost of replacing the filter media in the rodi.

 

If you have high tds or very hard water, you will have to replace the filter media more often.

 

Everyone said rodi was cheaper but i had to replace di resin every 2-3 months and the other media every 4 months.

 

That became expensive.

[InAtTheDeepEnd]

Got my water today 😄if I put it in tomorrow how soon can I add corals/livestock? It is mature live rock....I really want to add my first soft corals. My lfs today had some really gorgeous zoas. I can't see any reason not to add them now I've got the RODI water though. 

 

keep having to remind myself I. Must. Not. Rush

... But I'm also anxious about it all with this being my first full marine. 😅

If it was a freshwater I wouldn't be batting an eyelid, but I want to get everything right so apologies in advance if I ask stupid questions.

[rough eye]

cycle the tank first. test daily. after adding an ammonia source, once you get repeated results of ammonia = 0 you can start adding stuff. i waited a month before adding anything, with mature, live rock. it wasn't a disappointing month; during that time i watched all the life on those rocks come out and grow and start to populate the tank.

[Jungle_vip]

One water change of properly filtered water isn’t enough to “wash out” per say the tap water remnants. Patience young grasshopper. You will have this system for years to come and no need to rush. You’ll be glad you did in the end and so will your inhabitants. 
 

I use the aquatic life RO buddy + DI 50gpd. Comes with the adapters you’d need for however you want to hook it up. ($60) on Amazon. Had to purchase an in line pressure gauge ($12) and a handheld TDS meter (12$). Water out of my tap is around 350 TDS give or take. In the last year I’ve replaced the carbon and sediment filter ($17) and the DI resin has been exhausted three times. Once was my own stupidity in the beginning. You can refill this and use the same cartridge like many other units. I use the BRS bulk 1.25 lb bag (12$). I still have one more refill ish with that bag. My ro membrane will need to be replaced soon ($30)
 

RO buddie + DI - $60

pressure gauge - $12

TDS meter - $12

replacement filters - $45 as a combo

bulk resin - $12

 

TOTAL- $141 for the first year

               $57 for every year after

 

Of course this is based on 350 TDS out of the tap and does not include the price of water. I run a standard 10 gallon. I make 16 gallons of water at a time which lasts me 8 weeks. I store 10 gallons in two five gallon buckets and 6 gallons in up cycled 1 gallon milk jugs. So I only make water every two months lol. For me it’s not about the cost but the convenience of not having to leave home for water. Everyone’s situation is different and there is nothing wrong with buying water if that’s what best for you. Buuuuut I try to stay away from

the reef store as much as possible lol.