The Desktop Reef

[geekreef_05]

Ok, as promised, pictures from last Yesterday... 

 

This was lunch break: 

 

Torch Corner: 

 

 

 

Goni Garden: 

 

 

 

 

Brown SPS during the day 🙂

You can see the slight fuzz of colour over them all and all that nasty nasty reef glue lol.  

 

 

 

 

 

And the evening pictures! 

 

FTS: 

 

Torch Corner:

 

Close up of the big monster: 

 

Lil Indo:

 

Big Indo:

 

 

Aussie Bros: 

 

 

And SPS:

 

 

 

Enjoy!

[geekreef_05]

I just did a lunchtime Mg test, same results. 

 

This means that Mg does not change hourly. There is a lag-time between 4-8 hrs based on observational data. I'll test again after work. I could potentially do the math and crunch the lag-time numbers, I'll have to give it a think. 

 

On the flip side, the torches look HUGE at this elevated Mg. Like juicy. I might just leave it here. Its a tad over my objective, but I dont think it'll hurt anything until Im over 1600ppm and then snails maybe uncomfortable. But my snails seem normally active around this mark.

 

/think time. 

[DevilDuck]

Looks fantastic! Glad your getting the Mg sorted out.

 

I was just thinking, if you don't like the look of the reef glue globs you can add sculpt some putty over them and blend the plug into the rock. I've used JB Weld WaterWeld, its white and should blend into your rocks and available at your local hardware store.

[geekreef_05]

17 minutes ago, DevilDuck said:

Looks fantastic! Glad your getting the Mg sorted out.

 

I was just thinking, if you don't like the look of the reef glue globs you can add sculpt some putty over them and blend the plug into the rock. I've used JB Weld WaterWeld, its white and should blend into your rocks and available at your local hardware store.

Good idea! I'll give it a think dude. 

[geekreef_05]

I noticed somekinda of asterina star today.  I didnt remove it, but I'll be keeping an eye to see if it pesters coral. 

I wonder if Coral Rx would have hurt a starfish. I kinda feel bad. Maybe he was like this prior to myself receiving him, who knows, right. 

[geekreef_05]

Check it out. Compare to yesterdays photo above. The Torches (and everything) looks juicy at high Mg, 

[geekreef_05]

Well, Ive thought plenty about Magnesium and torch corals this weekend.  Over the last 48hrs Mg levels have been stable, which is fantastic. Ive backed way down on dosing from 6ml/day at the max to 0.5ml/day currently. 

 

What I understood prior to this project

- Torch corals and LPS corals utilize Mg as well as Calcium on the reef

- Maintaining stable and high levels of both leads to good health and growth. 

 

What I discovered observationally

- Torch corals increase their uptake of Mg overnight

- Torch corals increase their uptake of Mg when Mg is low and supply is available. 

- Torch corals slow their uptake of Mg when the environment is saturated. 

- With Mg dosing Ive potentially experienced an uptake lag time of 8-12hrs or 24hrs or 48hrs. Although Ive generated alot of data here, its still not definitively possible to answer the time-lag question. I could have been reacting, each morning and evening, to changes in Mg from 24hrs or 48hrs ago. Because my testing time's were rather consistent, it makes sense Id would see a change each time, but unclear what time window that was taking to occur. 

 

 

[mitten_reef]

Very interesting observation on mag and LPS. 
 

just wanna offer an unrelated magnesium topic.  I’ve read that mag also plays an important role in coralline algae growth and calcification (in fact, there are a few coralline boosting product that are basically alk and mag dosing).  and it looks like your rocks are changing colors almost literally by the day.  i’d be curious/interested in seeing how your rocks are changing in the next week or two. Here the two recent examples where I’m comparing. 

 

 

[A.m.P]

That's one heck of a torch garden, love it

[geekreef_05]

I removed my arco a couple hrs ago as it was dying/whitening. It was overly ambitious to attempt an arco in 10.5 gallons of water and a current usa fixture lol. If you roll through the previous pictures, it shows the white shock rocking through it soon after the minor ALK swing - that was definately too much for it after the slap in the face of the poor lighting fixture, lol. 

 

I dont really feel sad about this one, I think even on stocking day, I gave this a low chance of survival in my post. Something as simple as a mishandled water change in 10 gallons of water would have killed it. 

 

Which brings up the reason I bought it.. it was a challenge for myself.. but also.. Arco frags are rather inexpensive presently. This was like $20 CDN, which is like $chump change in USD. Reefers with SPS tanks seem to have them growing out of their wazzo and cant be rid of them fast enough.  But also, thats no excuse for the death of any coral and perhaps I of all people should have known better. 

 

So humble apologies to the acro folks. Im gonna steer clear of arco's in a nano from here out 🙂

 

Oh, I should note the rest of the "easy" SPS shelf doing great. I can post of picture of ridiculous SPS polyp extension soon, 

[geekreef_05]

8 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

Very interesting observation on mag and LPS. 
 

just wanna offer an unrelated magnesium topic.  I’ve read that mag also plays an important role in coralline algae growth and calcification (in fact, there are a few coralline boosting product that are basically alk and mag dosing).  and it looks like your rocks are changing colors almost literally by the day.  i’d be curious/interested in seeing how your rocks are changing in the next week or two. Here the two recent examples where I’m comparing. 

 

 

Good Point Mitten. Im totally interested to see how this turns out as well. Mg levels arent something Ive attempted to manage in the past and keep elevated. 

 

I definately have the sense my rocks are about to hit the green phase. Im hoping my hungry snails will handle it, but the rocks ... look like ..well instinct says I could wake up to a GHA explosion any day. Of course I hope the tank moves past into brown and coralline purple quickly -> thats the dream right, 🙂

 

Its weird, cause back in the day with liverock, I would have coralline on the glass by now and a GHA problem, but I dont really see anything much yet. Maybe (fingers crossed)  some of these freckles I see on the rock will grow up to be big and healthy coralline! I'll post pictures as the reef progresses for sure. 

 

[geekreef_05]

Well, a little update. First Id say everything looks good. The rocks are changing shades of colour daily. Yesterday I did a phos test which came to 0.30ppm -> yikes. At this point its definately the mexican turbo snails keeping an GHA explosion at bay. Ive found this bunch are super aggressive eaters. If you check my initial algae bloom they really handled that. I was amazed. 

 

For reference almost a week ago, I tested phosphate at about the same level. Phos control done at the time:

- added chemi-pure elite 

- cut way back on coral feeding from every 2nd day to 1/wk 

 

Results: 

- Saw a drop to 0.18ppm and post-poned a water change.

- At the time it was totally possible that coral overfeeding was the problem and that phos was on the way down.  

 

However, yesterdays test at 0.30ppm shows serious bounce back. So Phos control measures taken today:

- changed floss filters and chemi-pure..

- placed some GFO on order, thinking...this maybe a long term issue if Im not cleaning the sandbed all the time. 

- finished a 30% water change, which is the largest Id ever like to do on my reef. 

- I attempted to syphon the sandbed, but really its way too tight with my corals. I just ended up agitating my corals with the hose lol. likely never again. 

 

My assumption is that phos will be relatively high in my reef long term, even if I do get it down a bit here.

Im shooting for 0.10ppm or lower to be honest. 

  

I'll test phos again later this week. I want to avoid the potential 24hr bounce around from a new chemi-pure pack, if thats whats happening.  

If GFO doesnt work to control it, I may look into dosing phos control products. I might look into those... might.... 

 

Fingers crossed for GFO. Does anyone else run it on their nano? I have no experience with it to be honest. 

[geekreef_05]

Im gonna do something we never should.. post WC pictures! This is like an hour after the WC. 

 

Full Tank: 

Very yellow because of the lunch time sunlight coming through the bay windows. This large bay window gets morning sun, so until about 1pm, its shining. 

I know alot of folks say not to keep tanks in front of windows, but having done this before, i think its good for the inhabitants. 

 

 

And Torch Corner: 

 

The purple indo torch at the top is going through a transition. The top big head is really taking over. I should probably frag the bottom left head, it looks like its getting out competed there.  Its something to think about. Thats one of my favorite torches. 

[freestylejunki32]

7 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

Well, a little update. First Id say everything looks good. The rocks are changing shades of colour daily. Yesterday I did a phos test which came to 0.30ppm -> yikes. At this point its definately the mexican turbo snails keeping an GHA explosion at bay. Ive found this bunch are super aggressive eaters. If you check my initial algae bloom they really handled that. I was amazed. 

 

For reference almost a week ago, I tested phosphate at about the same level. Phos control done at the time:

- added chemi-pure elite 

- cut way back on coral feeding from every 2nd day to 1/wk 

 

Results: 

- Saw a drop to 0.18ppm and post-poned a water change.

- At the time it was totally possible that coral overfeeding was the problem and that phos was on the way down.  

 

However, yesterdays test at 0.30ppm shows serious bounce back. So Phos control measures taken today:

- changed floss filters and chemi-pure..

- placed some GFO on order, thinking...this maybe a long term issue if Im not cleaning the sandbed all the time. 

- finished a 30% water change, which is the largest Id ever like to do on my reef. 

- I attempted to syphon the sandbed, but really its way too tight with my corals. I just ended up agitating my corals with the hose lol. likely never again. 

 

My assumption is that phos will be relatively high in my reef long term, even if I do get it down a bit here.

Im shooting for 0.10ppm or lower to be honest. 

  

I'll test phos again later this week. I want to avoid the potential 24hr bounce around from a new chemi-pure pack, if thats whats happening.  

If GFO doesnt work to control it, I may look into dosing phos control products. I might look into those... might.... 

 

Fingers crossed for GFO. Does anyone else run it on their nano? I have no experience with it to be honest. 

Curious... Why did you place the chemi pure after only one week. It should last month(s) 

[geekreef_05]

11 hours ago, freestylejunki32 said:

Curious... Why did you place the chemi pure after only one week. It should last month(s) 

Because I didnt read the instructions 🤦‍♂️ I did realize my mistake after making it. I reacted based on previous experience with carbon. But I definately threw money in the garbage bc I didnt take 2 seconds to read instructions. 

 

Its weird to me because chemi-pure is carbon mixed with GFO. The GFO part says it will last 3 months, but carbon, im my opinion lasts one week to a month tops. I have no experience with GFO products, so Im totally all ears to learn from those with experience. 

 

 

[mitten_reef]

2 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

Because I didnt read the instructions 🤦‍♂️ I did realize my mistake after making it. I reacted based on previous experience with carbon. But I definately threw money in the garbage bc I didnt take 2 seconds to read instructions. 

 

Its weird to me because chemi-pure is carbon mixed with GFO. The GFO part says it will last 3 months, but carbon, im my opinion lasts one week to a month tops. I have no experience with GFO products, so Im totally all ears to learn from those with experience. 

 

 

be aware when using actual GFO product, not my direct experience but through plenty of skimming/reading, the consensus seems to be that GFO drops phosphate too fast and messes with alkalinity.  alternative phosphate removing product like phosban and phosguard are something I'd consider.  oh, and don't forget to read manufacturer's instruction.  😉

 

with any chemical media, go slow, start with half or even quarter of recommended usage - they're made to be very efficient at what they do.    

[geekreef_05]

4 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

be aware when using actual GFO product, not my direct experience but through plenty of skimming/reading, the consensus seems to be that GFO drops phosphate too fast and messes with alkalinity.  alternative phosphate removing product like phosban and phosguard are something I'd consider.  oh, and don't forget to read manufacturer's instruction.  😉

 

with any chemical media, go slow, start with half or even quarter of recommended usage - they're made to be very efficient at what they do.    

 

Thanks Mitten, its a good warning. For sure tossing media bags into a system results in a quick change. If I change the bag regularly as per instructions and incorporate an overlap between new/old bags I can mitigate that a bit...but for sure it'll create a period of bouncing Phos low's and high's. 

 

The ALK problem would really suck. I'll keep an eye on that - I appreciate the heads up there. 

I put the GFO on order and it hasnt arrived yet. I'll do more research before actually using it. GFO is relatively cheap at least.

 

Fingers crossed the water change and chemi-pure solved my problem and neither is needed though (this is unlikely I admit, haha!) 

 

There is a notable difference in water clarity today on my reef, after 24hrs of a fresh chemi-pure and the water change. Maybe thats just the new carbon in the chemi-pure though, fresh carbon tends to have that effect. Luckily Phos shock is not a very likely problem in this case and from the way things look today, Im thinking all is good right now. 

 

Ive also done some preliminary research and I think dosing one of those phos products is the best method as well. Seems like it provides alot of control over Phos levels. But its also the more complex solution -> Id need another pump and dosing container. So Im gonna see if the cheap/simple solution is effective first before moving forward with something more complex. 

 

appreciated Mitten! 

 

[geekreef_05]

I havent posted in a while, but before the end of this week I'll post some new pictures. The top of my rock structure is in full green phase. Its kinda astonishing looking at the pictures from a week or two ago. The voracious turbo snails are no doubt keeping algae bloom at bay.

 

Ive moved some torch corals around to provide optimal placement. I found the large thick torch in the corner... when its tentacles touched other torches, they wouldnt fully open. So I gave it more room to spread out.  The dark indo torch at top has two heads that are whiting out. I think they are being outcompeted for space as well and not playing well with the torches around them. I directly fed those heads today, so hopefully that helps. Fingers crossed they pull through. It was not what I anticipated, from all the literature on torch corals. That said, the official literature is very limited at this point! Seems like some torches play well with others, while some dont. I dont think there is a sure shot naked-eye ID method to determine which ones will work together. Ultimately, the lesson learned here is to give your torch corals lots of room! 

 

The other corals look super good. SPS have great polyp extension and have found their colour spectrum under these lights. Goni's look very healthy, the short tentacle sometimes looks like it wants to be a long tentacle when it grows up. Maybe its really a mislabelled Bernardopora (sp?). The Sympodium blue has settled into its new spot -> it was definately not playing well with the Goni's, so it got relocated. Its a super beautiful coral, I should take some close-up's. 

 

Ive really backed down on testing this week, cause everything looks super healthy and parameters have been stable. A Mg test from a couple days ago showed 1480ppm -> on target for my stability goals. I need to do a phos test at the end of the week and see how things look. I havent added the GFO yet.. and frankly the recommend amount is alot.. enough that Id have to remove the chemi-pure for space reasons.

 

I just fed the corals today with vitals LPS pellets and reef roids, as Im at a 1/wk feeding schedule. I do feed 5ml of Phyto daily and 3 drops of amino acids. 

 

Clownfish are getting more accustomed to the corals and more curious. They are finally (after stocking day shock) swimming around the entire tank and not relegating themselves to their safety zones. They play in the front, in the strong current, so its good to see. They are starting to eat from my hand which is nice as well. 

 

And finally there are copepods everywhere. Lots of baby snails. I should trim my chaeto, its getting big. Lots of life in the lil box for sure. 

 

Picture update soon!

 

 

[geekreef_05]

Im overdue on photo's.. coming this week for sure! 

 

I just wanted to quickly notepad some water test results today:

Salinity: 35ppt

Phosphate: 0.15ppm

Magnesium: 1460ppm

[Chris882003]

On 2/23/2021 at 2:55 PM, geekreef_05 said:

Im overdue on photo's.. coming this week for sure! 

 

I just wanted to quickly notepad some water test results today:

Salinity: 35ppt

Phosphate: 0.15ppm

Magnesium: 1460ppm

Great looking tank. I have a 20 gallon WB and was thinking about adding a refugium to chamber 2. How do you like have the refugium would you do it again? Thanks for posting. 

[DevilDuck]

@geekreef_05 Any updates on your tank?

[mitten_reef]

@geekreef_05 how’s it going over here?

[geekreef_05]

Its been a long time! But Im back for more. Ive started two new reef's and need somewhere to record aquarium parameters and observations. My hand scratch notepad isnt cutting it and of course, its great to chat with nano-reef folks. 

 

 

So what happened to this reef? 

 

2 Months Later - Reef Stability

After a period of 2 months I reached a point of stable chemistry. My Calc, Alk, Mg, pH were all at comfortable numbers, using multiple dosing pumps. However lwithin this time all the SPS in the tank perished. New tank syndrome? possibly. 

 

There was a slim chance they were going to thrive in the tiny volume of water and lacking lighting. At this point, I would say the lack of proper lighting is what took them out. Every water change was stressful for both the coral and myself at this volume.

 

Other corals continue to look great. Torches thriving. Goni's stinging everything in sight. GSP everywhere. Xenia actually didnt grow much - too much flow. 

 

3 Months Later - Hair Algae is strong and coral warefare is strong, Dosing pump reliability problems

First it became clear to me that torch corals can and will attack each other on occasion. I dont know why. Probably sub species that we cant identify. One particular Torch killed two other torches around it. 

 

The goni's took out the symposium blue, but look good. 

 

The hair aglae problem takes alot of manual removal and water changes. The stress on the corals is bad. A couple torches dont make it, succumbing to brown jelly. I know this is said to 'just happen' as well, but I suspect it was the water change schedule at this time. 

 

HOWEVER -> im discovering that my All for Reef dosing pump and lines are often clogging. Ive gotten used to diagnosing and replacing lines. The problem is that Im using so little and dosing just tiny amounts. Calcification is setting into the line. I start to research potential solutions. I take a chance and start to cut the All-For-Reef 2:1 with RODI. Fingers crossed. 

 

6 Months Later

Hair algae continues to be persistant. But so has coralline. With a small body of water and lack of real HA eating inhabitants its a real battle. Its ugly, but healthy. 

 

Work sends me travelling and when I return 21 days later, my All 4 Reef lines have ceased up and nothing looks good on the reef. This was the start of the end. I fix the problem and head out on another work tour, fingers crossed. This time I increase dilution to 3:1. and change the dosing schedule to put more in at a time. 0.1 ml at time ceases up the line.

 

When I return, another 21 days later, there's only a couple torches alive, along with the GSP, xenia and clove polyps. All 4 Reef lines are fully clogged. 

 

For the lost of one dosing line, Reef stability is lost and life is decimated. 

 

 

1 Year Later, I moved! 

And with it came an intensified HA problem that suffocated every living coral in the aquarium. At this time in my life I didnt have the ability to put alot of effort into the aquarium. 

 

And recently, I decided to start over. Give the fish permanent larger home and fix my dosing problem as well as manage hair algae once and for all! 

 

 

LESSONS LEARNED

TORCHES

- Torch corals love high MG levels. The uptake more Mg at night. 

- Mg levels should be measured by 48hr cycles and not 24hrs. 

- Torches require alot of SPACE. They are aggressive. Occasionally towards other torches. 

 

Other Corals

- SPS require high lighting and more water volume to manage properly. 

- Goni's are also super aggressive. They need alot of space to grow. 

- Xenia really doesnt like high flow. To the point this can be used to limit growth using intelligent placement. 

- Strong Mg, ALK levels will rapidly grow coralline. 

 

 

Equipment. 

- Better lighting is required. 

- The fluval is impossibly frustrating to work on with my rockwork and coral. Its tiny. 

- Dosing pumps are crucial to maintaining a reef. All for Reef requires dilution for nano sized tanks, if using only nano tank amounts. Dosing 0.1 ml at a time is a recipe for clogging lines. Dose 1ml at min at time, if not more.  
- Consistent water testing and more automation in monitoring would be better than all the manual testing. 

 

Hair Algae.

- Need to get on top of it before its starts

- Requires a biological balance

- no amount of manual removal will suffice. 

- maybe possible to add more 'pods for nano sized tanks when HA is first discovered. Coupled with manual remove may increase success. Also adding more snails at this time, knowing some wont make it longer term. 

 

Sea Urcih, Tangs and other great methods are just not feasible at this sized tank - which would be ideal. HA and a nano is a tough situation. 

 

 

 

 

RIP Desktop Reef. 

Survivor's: Clownfish, Watchman Goby, Rainfords Goby and 3 nass snails. 

 

Next Tank Journal - Home Office Shallow Reef

Spec's 16" wide, 48" Long, 13" tall, custom open top glass tank.  

Estimated size of 37.5 gallons. Actual volume is 35 gallons with sand and rockwork. 

 

I'll start a new Tank Journal thread shortly. 

 

You may ask... how will i control HA this time? This reef has no algae's so far, no snails and no crabs. 

Just one sea urchin. Thats all it takes! 🙂

 

All for Reef maintenance so far... on this volume of water its easy because its using 150ml/day! Providing about 450 calc. At that use volume Im running it 1:1 and there havent been any line clogs.