What is wrong with this green acro?

[jefferythewind]

Thats pretty cool, a lot bumpier than mine, also more orange, mine seems more pink ( when its healthy ). Yeah idk today it looks better than it has for a while, with full polyp extension even on the bad parts. This is encouraging.

 

[jefferythewind]

23 hours ago, Thrassian Atoll said:

Just for reference for what I said I run my parameters at.   
 

Here’s my setosa.  
 

on closer look it looks very similar... obviously its the same

[Thrassian Atoll]

Tips are pink in certain light.  That’s probably what you see with yours.
 

[jefferythewind]

Yes this picture looks much closer in color. Its a pretty cool coral. I have to say today it is starting to  look much better with some tick orange tissue starting to grow in places where it was much thinner before. Although it does seem to be having trouble regrowing anything on the more brown/dead parts.

[Thrassian Atoll]

It’s going to take a while for it to regrow - look good again if it does.  Corals are finicky and hit or miss.  I have some stuff that’s grown 10 times it’s size and some things that have grown nothing in the same time frame.  You just never know.  As long as is doesn’t get worst your on the right track with everything.

[jefferythewind]

Just tested tonight and the Alk has dropped down to 7.8, seems to have dropped pretty quick the last 2 days. I'm doing a water change now to get it back above 8, but we'll see how long that lasts... starting to think about dosing Alk.  Which product do you use for dosing Alk?

 

Yeah the setosa seems promising, the side away from the glass is actually much better already.

[Thrassian Atoll]

I use B-ionic 2 part.  My alk has been bouncing between 7.5-8.5 this week due to ph going up and down.  The temp outside has been all over the place.  Windows open, windows closed, open, closed, co2 scrubber on and off.  The higher the ph goes, the lower the alk gets.  Usually I am able to keep my alk pretty close to 8.  
 

[jefferythewind]

Wow that is really cool. I see how you have that inverse trend between PH and Alk, however there is another wave there on a shorter frequency. Is that from how the system is dosing or something that has to do with daylight/night cycle? It seems like those swings should be smoother? Seems like a swing of 1 point in Alk in a week is pretty big.

[Thrassian Atoll]

It’s usually not as much of an up and down.  This past couple weeks have been an outlier due to the weather.  I have been messing with the dose of alkalinity and calcium as well to try and get it more stable.  1 dkh in a week isn’t that bad.  More stable is better of course.  I have read .5-1 in day dkh is fine.  
 

Here’s some graphs of how stable my tank usually runs.  No more than .5 dkh in a week.  Ph, Orp and Alk all fluctuate with each other.  
 

 

[This guy is extra salty]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:08 PM, jefferythewind said:

Thats pretty cool, a lot bumpier than mine, also more orange, mine seems more pink ( when its healthy ). Yeah idk today it looks better than it has for a while, with full polyp extension even on the bad parts. This is encouraging.

 

Slowly healing, it’ll bounce back!

[jefferythewind]

Wow just changed the water yesterday and the Alk is already back down right about 8, I think I'm going to have to dose soon. Wow things are progressing quickly. Just wondering if I need to get something just for Alk or for all three Alk, Ca, and Mg. I will probably throw in another water change right now.

[Thrassian Atoll]

B-Ionic 2 part, calcium and alkalinity, replenish magnesium as well.  Mine sits 1350ish and I have never dosed it.  
 

Alkalinity and Calcium are suppose to be consumed equally but I always have to dose more alk than calcium.  

[jefferythewind]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:03 PM, Thrassian Atoll said:

It’s usually not as much of an up and down.  This past couple weeks have been an outlier due to the weather.  I have been messing with the dose of alkalinity and calcium as well to try and get it more stable.  1 dkh in a week isn’t that bad.  More stable is better of course.  I have read .5-1 in day dkh is fine.  
 

Here’s some graphs of how stable my tank usually runs.  No more than .5 dkh in a week.  Ph, Orp and Alk all fluctuate with each other.  
 

 

Just in the back of my mind I am thinking, with this kind of testing machine I would expect it to be able to smooth that line out, since it doesn't seem like noise.

[mitten_reef]

48 minutes ago, jefferythewind said:

Just in the back of my mind I am thinking, with this kind of testing machine I would expect it to be able to smooth that line out, since it doesn't seem like noise.

the graph can be misleading, if you look at the min and max, the lowest of valley to top of peak is only 0.3 apart.   That's really good, imo.  you could go thru 2+ dKh a day in a high-cinsumption nano, where once or twice a day dosing won't make sense any more,  looking at the chart too, it's looking like @Thrassian Atoll is dosing twice a day at this time, so if he were to dose 4-6 times a day it'd be even smoother.  for the record, my tank was dosing 6 times a day ~3ml each, but I don't have a log kept of how it swings - would be an interesting exercise for sure now that I'm work at home 100%.  I have to take the doser offline due to recent slow down in growth. 

 

furthermore, I'm sure what you're looking for is feasible.  But then it comes down to the economics, do you want to "waste" your testing reagent every hour, even 2-3 hour? when 4-6 hours interval will suffice?     

[jefferythewind]

37 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

the graph can be misleading, if you look at the min and max, the lowest of valley to top of peak is only 0.3 apart.   That's really good, imo.  you could go thru 2+ dKh a day in a high-cinsumption nano, where once or twice a day dosing won't make sense any more,  looking at the chart too, it's looking like @Thrassian Atoll is dosing twice a day at this time, so if he were to dose 4-6 times a day it'd be even smoother.  for the record, my tank was dosing 6 times a day ~3ml each, but I don't have a log kept of how it swings - would be an interesting exercise for sure now that I'm work at home 100%.  I have to take the doser offline due to recent slow down in growth. 

 

furthermore, I'm sure what you're looking for is feasible.  But then it comes down to the economics, do you want to "waste" your testing reagent every hour, even 2-3 hour? when 4-6 hours interval will suffice?     

Yeah I agree the more normal graphs dont show a huge variation through the day, also i dont exactly know how the tester is connected with the doser, but in control systems you should be able to dampen out a periodic oscillation like that if your input (dosing) has a direct affect on the measurement, which i think it does.

 

For my purposes testing once a day is pretty much all I have in me, so i'm getting some of that Alk and Calcium juice, I will start dosing and thinking about getting a dosing pump which should be able to add small portions of the daily dose during the day. I figure the the more spread out over the day the better. Then i can test once a day and adjust the dose flow as required. I will manually be doing what the triton is supposed to do. 

 

I will look up the docs but there may be ways to adjust the feedback dynamics of the software in that Triton. Not sure how much customization they offer.

[Thrassian Atoll]

My tank actually doses alkalinity 75-100 times per day.  Right now I am dosing roughly 40-50 ml a day.  It breaks that into 20 minute dose intervals. I could probably break it up a bit instead of it dosing the same amount every time.  They say to dose more during the day than at night.  My tank seems to use more at night.  No clue.  I could also try the automated dosing with the trident testing, but I haven’t got that down quite yet.
 

 You also have to think about the accuracy of the test kits.  Without looking, I don’t know what the allowable range for the test kits are.  Maybe if I tested 4 times a day with let’s say a Hanna, it could come up with the same number each time or be way different. Who knows.  As long as it doesn’t go up or down by 1 dkh each day, there shouldn’t be any issues.   

[jefferythewind]

17 hours ago, Thrassian Atoll said:

My tank actually doses alkalinity 75-100 times per day.  Right now I am dosing roughly 40-50 ml a day.  It breaks that into 20 minute dose intervals. I could probably break it up a bit instead of it dosing the same amount every time.  They say to dose more during the day than at night.  My tank seems to use more at night.  No clue.  I could also try the automated dosing with the trident testing, but I haven’t got that down quite yet.

 

I see yeah, It would be interesting to see what happens with the automatic dosing, I bet that line would straighten right out... I've been reading about that system, looks awesome. Not sure if you have the Apex and the pumps all from the same brand?

[mitten_reef]

18 hours ago, Thrassian Atoll said:

My tank actually doses alkalinity 75-100 times per day.  Right now I am dosing roughly 40-50 ml a day.  It breaks that into 20 minute dose intervals. I could probably break it up a bit instead of it dosing the same amount every time.  They say to dose more during the day than at night.  My tank seems to use more at night.  No clue.  I could also try the automated dosing with the trident testing, but I haven’t got that down quite yet.
 

 You also have to think about the accuracy of the test kits.  Without looking, I don’t know what the allowable range for the test kits are.  Maybe if I tested 4 times a day with let’s say a Hanna, it could come up with the same number each time or be way different. Who knows.  As long as it doesn’t go up or down by 1 dkh each day, there shouldn’t be any issues.   

what is showing as the peak and valley on alkalinity chart then?  just the daily timepoints that Trident tests?  And the display just automatically generate curve graph (kinda like excel spreadsheet option)?   

 

edit:  if you're dosing in small quantity with fairly high frequency, the chart is very telling on how the reef utilizes alkalinity throughout the day - which is cool!

[Thrassian Atoll]

5 hours ago, jefferythewind said:

 

I see yeah, It would be interesting to see what happens with the automatic dosing, I bet that line would straighten right out... I've been reading about that system, looks awesome. Not sure if you have the Apex and the pumps all from the same brand?

Yeah, I have a whole apex setup.  I tried the automated dosing in the past and it was going up and down .5 dkh which I was able to keep more stable with making adjustments myself.  I read up a little more about and might try again.  I was trying to keep the numbers too tight according to what I read.   I think a more stable ph will help too.  I think I am going to get a bypass switch for my C02 scrubber.  Have it come on at 8.1 and off at 8.3 or something.  I need to recalibrate my ph probe too.  Have to buy more calibration fluid though.  

 

5 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

what is showing as the peak and valley on alkalinity chart then?  just the daily timepoints that Trident tests?  And the display just automatically generate curve graph (kinda like excel spreadsheet option)?   

 

edit:  if you're dosing in small quantity with fairly high frequency, the chart is very telling on how the reef utilizes alkalinity throughout the day - which is cool!

The chart is just showing every time it tests which is 6 times a day.  The graph generates a specific date range that I want but only a week at a time I believe. What your seeing in the graph photos is such a tight point spread that it looks like it’s a lot more up and down than if the graph showed a wider range of numbers.  If that makes sense what I am trying to say.  

[jefferythewind]

Well here is a little update on the tank situation. The orange setosa is much better now. The colors in the whole tank seem to get better everyday. I've got a red montipora that was always very pale but now the color looks very nice, although still not really opening up too much. The zoas are all starting to grow a lot more.

 

It even looks like the green acropora is having some little tiny new polyps appearing in a brighter green color! These are appearing on the main trunk section that hasn't been burned yet. it is really very small dots but I think you can make them out in the picture. Overall my tank has never been this good ( check out that neon green color on the mushroom behind the acro, when I got those mushrooms on some live rock they were just about all pale white). I'm feeding a lot more and testing at least Alk and Phosphate every day. I test Nitrate every once in a while, and I will start testing Ca and Mg periodically too to make sure they aren't getting crazy. I have received the Alk/Ca juice so I am going to start dosing that since the Alk is dropping too fast for water changes to keep it up. I feel like I finally have a handle on the water parameters and what they do. As you all pointed out, now that I've had things pretty steady with non-zero phosphate and Alk somewhat controlled for a couple weeks things are starting to bounce back. Thanks so much for all your help here!

 

I'm going to let the acro go for a few more days to see how that new growth looks. Thinking about fragging it since the base and all the tips have been burnt for quite a while already.

 

 

[jefferythewind]

So I thought I would give an update on the situation with the tank and the green acro. Overall I've just been in the same groove doing daily Alk testing + dosing once per day. Each time I test I seem to get between 7.8 and 8.1, and I dose about 3 ml per day of the B-ionic, both Alk and Ca. I just tested after the Alk dose, the Alk rises a bit but not too much, I would say about 0.5. I don't test Ca every day but once every couple days, seems pretty consistent around 410. It took a little while to get used to all this but it seems pretty consistent for about a 2 weeks or so now. 

 

I dose Neophos about 3 ml per day and that seems to do well keeping the phosphates at around 0.1. I've also tested nitrates periodically which I am not dosing. Last time they seemed below 5 so I am going to keep an eye on that so it doesn't get too low.

 

I stopped all extra filtration a while back when this thread first got started, the filter just has the bare minimum stuff in it. I clean it out every week. I've been feeding twice a day, and much more than I was before starting the thread.

 

The tank seems to just love these changes. I didn't realize how much the whole tank likes to be fed. Most of the corals have made great changes in color, much deeper and brighter than before. The green monti got paler and paler since I got it at the end of the summer. Now I realize that was probably from too low phosphates. Since getting the phosphates in line the color on that has come back completely. Also the red monti color was pale and white and now deep red again. The orange setosa has been doing strong since it almost died (also seemingly from low phosphates), however I have noticed it very difficult to re-grow those areas that died (see pic). New growth has slowed way down on it too but seems to picking up again recently. Every day it looks like it does in this picture so I'm sure it is on the right track.

 

The only negative I can say is still the green acro. It didn't respond nearly so quickly to the improvements in the tank and it was also showing the burnt tips way earlier than any problems with the orange setosa. Last time (11 days ago) I mentioned some bright green spots finally showing up. Well I still get those bright green polyps however the white from the tips and base just continues to increase. Not sure if it was just too injured from before or if my tank still isn't good enough to support it. Just was wondering if you all had any last-ditch tips to try to save it. Otherwise I would like to try a small new frag of some Acropora to see if my tank can support it. 

[mcarroll]

Still good progress overall!  👍

[mcarroll]

7 hours ago, jefferythewind said:

Notice the way those mushrooms have glommed on to the base of your acro?  

 

Different shrooms and different acro but it plays out the same way in my tank....the mushrooms beat a path to the acro and end up stinging it to death from the base up.  

 

Any stresses that slow the acro's growth up and away from the damage and it's toast...proably sooner than later.  (Mushrooms grow fast AND can walk, so the stony coral is at a definite disadvantage.)

 

I try not to mix soft and hard corals as a result.

[Thrassian Atoll]

Glad things are getting better!  Keep up the good work.

[farkwar]

Did you save it?