What is wrong with this green acro?

[jefferythewind]

@Tired so what do you propose for getting the phosphates up? I have started feeding in mornings as well the past few days. From researching online it seems the consensus to raise phosphates is just to feed more, or get another fish, etc. You had also mentioned it possible to directly dose phosphates? Of course I'd love to get them to come up "naturally" but its hard to wait, not knowing if/when they will increase. 

[jefferythewind]

Its seems that coral foods can add phosphates to the water. I am thinking about getting some amino acids coral food (AcroPower), also seen good reviews from Polyplabs reef roids.

[Thrassian Atoll]

I dose nitrates and phosphates almost daily.  Po4 around .05 and nitrates 5-10.  I also feed the fish at least twice a day with flake or pellet and then frozen.

[jefferythewind]

@Thrassian Atoll Which Phosphate product do you use to dose?

[Thrassian Atoll]

I use neophos and neonitro. 

[jefferythewind]

Its funny the more products you see out there are for reducing phosphates... Thanks I will try to get that.

[Tired]

Any foods can increase phosphates, especially coral foods (for some reason), but directly dosing them is a nice, direct way to get 'em in. You can try feeding more in addition to the reduced water changes, or you can just add straight phosphates. At this point, considering your corals are suffering from the low levels, I would be inclined to dose. Once levels have been up for a little while, you could see if you can maintain it with feeding instead of dosing, or you could keep dosing. 

[Thrassian Atoll]

Yeah, I don’t understand how people get high nutrient issues.  I have always struggled keeping them higher than 0.  All I have is a skimmer too, no fuge, no gfo.  

[Tired]

Bio-load, feeding, bacterial maturity, and exactly what that bio-load is made of all have an impact.

 

Have you considered not having the skimmer? Those can wind up removing nutrients and particles that your corals would like. It might be worth trying without it for a little while, and seeing if things like not having it around. I know zoas in particular tend to not be huge fans of skimmers.

[Thrassian Atoll]

I am going to be adding more fish soon, hopefully that keeps my nutrients up more in the range I shoot for.  I have zero soft corals.  90% SPS.  
 

[jefferythewind]

Thanks for all the feedback, this is very helpful. Well last night I ordered the products hopefully they will be here soon. I have started feeding more and I am testing the levels.

 

The orange setosa is looking much worse with the skin all turning white in a lot of places. It's strange because it has been doing well in the tank for the 7 weeks or so it has grown quite a bit. The green acro looks worse as well. 

 

Last night phosphates were still zero and now nitrates are still 5. 

[jefferythewind]

I've seen stories and pictures online of people who have nano tanks and they do like 100% water changes every time, mostly to replenish the Alk, Ca and Mg. I can't imagine how they would have any of these nutrients if they did that.

[Tired]

Usually that's people who would be feeding pretty heavily, at least compared to the tank size. I know some people like to give the tank a ton of food a few hours before the water change, so all the corals get stuffed full. Normally it's not a good strategy to dump loads of food in your tank, but if you're going to almost immediately remove all the excess, it seems to work pretty well.

 

[mcarroll]

15 hours ago, jefferythewind said:

From researching online it seems the consensus to raise phosphates is just to feed more, or get another fish, etc

There is no such consensus...the correct answer depends too much on the exact situation.  

 

Also, getting another fish where you had no plans for one is not a way to solve a problem....that's a way to create new problems.

 

15 hours ago, jefferythewind said:

You had also mentioned it possible to directly dose phosphates?

This is often the best answer, but not always.

 

1 hour ago, jefferythewind said:

The orange setosa is looking much worse with the skin all turning white in a lot of places.

If there's any indication like this where the corals are suffering, you want to dose phosphates.  The effect is both precise and immediate.

 

Seachem Flourish Phosphate is another product if you have any trouble getting the NeoPhos.

 

Dose the system up to 0.10 ppm when you get the product.  (Feel free to dose up to 0.25 ppm if that's the first clear mark on your test kit...more isn't going to be a problem.)

 

I would test right after dosing to see what level the test kit registers.  

 

Then test again after about 20 minutes or an hour to see if there's still any PO4 left in the water.  Sometimes there is a strong surge in uptake.

 

Re-dose to your target level if your test shows that levels have dropped compared to the first test.  (In rare occasions folks have had to re-test and re-dose more than once to get the target level to "stick".)

 

Test and dose the tank every day up to the target level as-needed until you can determine the tank's po4 consumption rate...then you should be able to dose predictable amounts and not have to test quite so often.  

 

Once the corals are growing aggressively and the tank matures a bit more, you should be able to slowly taper off the dose to nothing.  

 

A full recovery like this might take a few days or a few months, so be patient!

 

1 hour ago, jefferythewind said:

I've seen stories and pictures online of people who have nano tanks and they do like 100% water changes every time, mostly to replenish the Alk, Ca and Mg. I can't imagine how they would have any of these nutrients if they did that.

Anything is possible.  The list of good ideas is much shorter tho.  😉

 

If you wanted to do water changes now, I would tell you to dose phosphates up to the tank's level (0.10 or 0.25) into the new water.  Then a water change won't be a problem.

 

Matching the tank's nitrate level as well wouldn't be a bad thing, but not quite as necessary as matching phosphate levels.

 

 

[Thrassian Atoll]

At least get the phosphate registering when you get the neophos if that’s what you ordered.  The directions on the bottle are pretty accurate.  Have you researched much on the test kit your using?  I don’t know how accurate that one is.  I know Hanna is the go to for phosphates.  

[jefferythewind]

I just received the Neophos, and I hope it is just in the time. The orange setosa whitened a lot more today as well, I dosed 0.05 ppm at a time and tested directly after each time.after dosing the third time, up to .15 ppm in total did I start to see a little blue in the test water. This still corresponds to a very low level of phosphates. I am going to add a little more and test as it goes. Lot of testing here but I am hopeful about the results.

[Thrassian Atoll]

I stay between .05-.1 ppm.  You don’t want to overdose that stuff.  Algae will go crazy.  Get your levels stable where you want them and keep them there.   Hopefully your sps stop going downhill, but it’s hard to say what will happen.  They could bounce back quick or they could completely die even if the water is perfect because they are still reacting to the water parameters from weeks ago.

[Tired]

Yeah, there's a really unfortunate thing with corals (and similar, like anemones) where they take a month or so to react to things. So they start looking sickly, and you don't know why, because they're reacting to something a month ago. If you figure that thing out and fix it, sometimes they die anyway because they didn't have a month of adjusting to the new, good parameters left in 'em. It's great. Super helpful. Totally hasn't lost me some nice stuff in the past. 

[jefferythewind]

@Tired the sarcasm is palpable. Yes no worries this is a learning experience. I am pretty hopeful for the orange setosa, it has been super healthy looking until this week. The acro has already been showing the burnt tips for a month or so. you can see at the base it is also turning white, not so hopeful there. All the hard corals have only been in the tank for 7 weeks or so. They all came from the same tank. Funny how they all have done quite differently. We will see. Now after learning more the signs of low phosphates, i would imagine ive had this problem for a while. We'll see how it goes. From what ive learned so far, i now have test kits for Alk, Ca, Mg, Nitrates and Phos. Seems like keeping an eye on there levels and keeping them in the right range is critical. Phos was the last test i purchased and turned out to be the only one that showed problems... Anyways we will see how it goes, I will post updates.

[Thrassian Atoll]

Post a couple full tank shots so we can get the whole perspective.  Have you noticed anything else with the low phosphates?  Dino’s or anything like that?

[jefferythewind]

@Thrassian Atoll Don't mind if I do. After seeing your tank I've been a little reluctant to post mine... haha jk. Here we have some pictures. I will give a run down of the corals and the story. I've only had 1 coral completely die which is no longer there. It was put in the tank about 4 months after starting, looking back it was way too early and I was a (total) beginner not even testing the water. It was a red digitata, slowly died over 5 months or so. During that time I had an outbreak of the green water. Thats what got me in the habit of doing everything in my power to clean the water. I should also note I started with only dry rock and didn't get any live rock until this past summer when it was suggested by some forum members.

 

Green Star Polyps - it was the first coral I got about a year ago, took a while to get going but recently has been growing like crazy. Not knowing what I was doing at the begining I put it on my biggest rock. Now I have put that rock to one side of the tank so I doesn't grow onto anything else. Need to move thee toadstool preetty soon.

 

Red Zoa - On the middle rock next to the orange setosa. This i got at the same time as the red digitada. This took a while to get going as well but recently looks great with better colors. Started on a little plug now grown out onto the rocks(see pic).

 

Purple Japanese Toadstool - This I bought from a local reefer just July or so. It has been solid, not much growth but very active everyday. Doesn't seem to like too much light.

 

The rest of these I got pretty much all together, also from another local reefer, I got this at the very beginning of August.

 

Brown and green zoas - seem pretty good, kept falling off the rocks I put them. Seems like starting to grow out onto the rocks

 

Red Montipora -  From the very beginning this was turning whiteish so I moved it down away from thee light. After about a month the polyps aren't really coming out, although color seems better at bottom of tank. Now I realize maybe it is a phosphate deficiency issue. Color looks decent so may still be alive but polyps don't extend hardly at all recently. Maybe just a little.

 

Green Montipora - This thing has grown a lot since I got it, polyps always come way out. Although the color is a lot more white than when I got it, also seems like might a phosphate deficieency symptom. You can see this has already grown all over the big rock that I glued it to.

 

Green Acro - When I got it the polyps where extending pretty well for a few weeks, then slowly started getting the burnt tips. I have to say, after adding the NeoPhos, the tips already look less brown, still white/grey but not brown and flaky like they were yesterday. Interesting. The base started turning white around the same time as the tips.

 

Hammer - Big healthy frag I got, Been pretty consistent.

 

Duncan - This has 2 heads, thee main one looked bigger for a few weeks after I got it but then one day stayed shut for a few days and slowly opened back up over a few days. Now seems OK but noticeably smaller. I think it could have been harassed but a shrimp or hermit crab.

 

Also some green mushrooms that I got on some live rock this summer. They were all white and not very happy when I got them, now dark green and getting greener every day. Don't thinK I have Dinos. The snails and hermit crabs keep the whole thing pretty clean.

 

Pics taken just after light came on this morning so thee green star polyps and toadstool still not completely extended.

 

[mitten_reef]

23 minutes ago, jefferythewind said:

After seeing your tank I've been a little reluctant to post mine... haha jk.

we're all at a different phase/experience in the hobby, no need to be reluctant to share. 

 

use this post and start a build journal (this would actually be a much better first post than a lot that I've seen) to share your progress 🙌

[Thrassian Atoll]

Trust me, I have killed a ton of corals and crashed a few tanks.  I have been in the hobby 10 years and this is the first tank for me that has been doing really well.   We all start somewhere and we all have our own experiences.  
 

Thanks for sharing the photos and information.  Your soft corals looked to be doing great.  Kind of weird they aren’t suffering from lower nutrients.  
 

What light are you using?  

[jefferythewind]

Wow, thanks for the info. I actually had fish with my Dad a long time back when i was in school. We had some fresh water for a while and had some salt water. I remember the salt water tank doing pretty well, although I never had any corals. Had an anemone that got sucked into the filter. Had a moray that slithereed out of the tank. SO many things happened can't quite remember why/when it went down. Prob my Dad didn't want to do the maintenance anymore, ahah. 

 

Anyways, I've got the ViparSpectra 165w Aqua Light. I have blue on 34 and white on 2. They both go to 100. Its something else I've been not so sure about. 

[Thrassian Atoll]

I don’t know what that light is.  Looks to be very center tank focused though.  Might think about raising it a little bit to get more spread.