Corals closed for over 2 months except for one, need help

[The_Pharaoh]

Hey, so first things first, I live in a country where reef keeping is extremely difficult as i practically have to order everything internationally which take 2-4 weeks to arrive.

 

So, I have a 36L nano tank that has been running for 6 months now or so. I have 2 clowns, 1 yellow wrasse and 1 blenny. For cleanup crew I have 1 nassarius snail, 1 turbo snail, 1 hermit crab and 1 fire shrimp. For corals I have a zoa colony (bottom) consisting of 2 colorations, 1 elegance coral (mid) and 2 frogspawn (top) heads. 

 

I do a 25% water change every 2 weeks, I dont dose anything due to my small tank size and small number of corals, I have a protein skimmer that runs 8 hours a day and I run white light 3 hours and blue light 7 hours. The only tests allowed to be shipped in via personal shipping are ammonia, nitrate and nitrite and pH tests. My parameters as of today are 0 Ammonia, 0.1 Nitrate and 5 Nitrites. I feed once every 2 days and I have zero algae issues.

 

My elegance and zoas has been closed for 2 months and counting, while my frogspawns are florishing and growing and even small babies started forming around the base. My temperature is 25 celcius and the water I use is from a store pre mixed because it's super hard and super expensive to find salt here to mix yourself, so unfortunately I am stuck with the options I have.

 

I would appreciate any tips or help regarding my corals, I am afraid they would die, especially the elegance as it cost me a fortune getting it where I live. Thanks in advance!

[j.falk]

Could it be a possibility that the frogspawn is somehow stinging the other corals with it's sweeper tentacles?

[The_Pharaoh]

On 7/21/2020 at 3:29 PM, j.falk said:

Could it be a possibility that the frogspawn is somehow stinging the other corals with it's sweeper tentacles?

No, the forgspawn is on the top of the tank away from all the other corals, so its not that.

[j.falk]

It might help if you added some photos of your tank so people can see how things look.  

[The_Pharaoh]

5 minutes ago, j.falk said:

It might help if you added some photos of your tank so people can see how things look.  

Yes sorry, here 🙂 Tank is nano so one pictures shows it all hehe

[j.falk]

I was looking at your original post's parameters and nitrites should be zero on a fully cycled tank and your nitrates are really low.  That could be your issue right there.  

 

I would advise that you change your feeding schedule to once daily at the bare minimum.  Not enough nitrates in your water = nothing for your corals to use to grow and thrive.

 

Your tank also looks very clean...too clean in my opinion.  When you don't have algae growing that signals a problem with the tank as a normal tank will go through the normal algae stages (diatoms - > green algae of various types - > coralline algae).  One that is kept too clean / sterile is not a good environment for livestock.

[The_Pharaoh]

2 minutes ago, j.falk said:

I was looking at your original post's parameters and nitrites should be zero on a fully cycled tank.  That could be your issue right there.  

 

Your tank also looks very clean...too clean in my opinion.  When you don't have algae growing that signals a problem with the tank as a normal tank will go through the algae stages.  One that is kept to clean / sterile is not a good environment for your livestock.

Wait what? Really? I went through the algea stage already but not anymore, I do everything in my power to remove any algea like keeping lights off for a full day every once in a while to mimic a thunderstorm and to keep my snail and blenny feeding off the algea and I scrub daily. What should I do? I thought a clean tank is what is always aesthetically pleasing.

[j.falk]

Don't shut your lights off.  Your lights should be running at least 8 hours daily to keep your corals at optimum health.  Corals rely on light as well as nitrates to grow.

 

Look at the Tank of the Month section on Nano-Reef...none of those tanks have sterile white rock in them.  If you already went through the algae stages then your rock would not be as white as it is.

[j.falk]

https://www.nano-reef.com/featured/2020/

 

You want life growing in your tank for a healthy eco system...not dead sterile rock and sand.  Think of what it's like out in the ocean...nothing out there is clean, new, sterile.  Algae is in abundance and it is a food source for many living creatures.

[The_Pharaoh]

24 minutes ago, j.falk said:

https://www.nano-reef.com/featured/2020/

 

You want life growing in your tank for a healthy eco system...not dead sterile rock and sand.  Think of what it's like out in the ocean...nothing out there is clean, new, sterile.  Algae is in abundance and it is a food source for many living creatures.

What should I do about the rock then? This is dry rock as live rock is banned here.

[j.falk]

23 minutes ago, The_Pharaoh said:

What should I do about the rock then? This is dry rock as live rock is banned here.

Turn the light on and let stuff grow and mature on it.  You don't necessarily need live rock to be successful at saltwater and you already have a source of coralline algae in your tank.  I can see it growing on your hermit crab's shell.  Scrape a little of it off his shell and into your tank to get it to start growing quicker.

[jservedio]

As you add coral to the tank, you will get hitchhikers and stuff on there - if LR is banned, it's banned - there is nothing you can do about that, but there are plenty of tanks that are awesome and started with dry rock.

 

If you only have 36L (9.5g), you are wildly over stocked with fish and that is going to be a huge issue going forward. That wrasse needs a 50g+ tank and will get 5" long and that bicolor blenny should be in a 30g+ tank and will get 4" long. Two clowns is pretty much the limit on your fish which is stretching it a bit, and you should take anything else back. Am I correct in assuming that you added some new fish shortly before your coral problems? Your tank is likely going through a mini-cycle if you have nitrites in the water column.

 

All you can do is keep up with water changes, take back the fish you absolutely can't keep in a 10g tank, and get test kits for alkalinity. You really aren't going to be able to sensibly keep stony corals in a nano long-term if you can't measure alkalinity. Your best bet would be to have a softy tank if you can't source alkalinity test kits.

[olive]

do you have a phosphate test kit, if so, what are your phosphates? do you ever see the blenny pick on or eat coral?

 

I second @jservedio, your tank is wayyy overstocked and you need an alkalinity test too. 

[jservedio]

1 hour ago, j.falk said:

and your nitrates are really low.  That could be your issue right there.  

5ppm of nitrates is perfectly fine.

 

58 minutes ago, j.falk said:

https://www.nano-reef.com/featured/2020/

 

You want life growing in your tank for a healthy eco system...not dead sterile rock and sand.  Think of what it's like out in the ocean...nothing out there is clean, new, sterile.  Algae is in abundance and it is a food source for many living creatures.

This takes time - especially in a tank started with dry rock. OP already has the beginnings of life on his rock as you can see light shades of green and purple.

[j.falk]

38 minutes ago, jservedio said:

5ppm of nitrates is perfectly fine.

The issue I was referring to is the NITRITES...which should be 0.  But if the nitrites were showing accurate, the livestock would be showing signs of distress too.

[jservedio]

31 minutes ago, j.falk said:

The issue I was referring to is the NITRITES...which should be 0.

Which is why I didn't quote that part. In any case, the tank is way, way, way over-stocked with fish and that is almost certainly the source of the problems.

 

You also can't expect a 6 month old tank started with dry rock to be in any way comparable to the rock in a ToTM tank - even new tanks started with the best live rock aren't going to be comparable because even if they superficially look the same, the population sizes of everything inhabiting those rocks aren't remotely stable and it'll take years to get there and develop.

 

As someone with a fair amount of dry rock in my tank, even after the tank had been running for 8 years, new dry rock still takes more than a year to not stand out as a white rock and become mostly colonized.

[j.falk]

21 minutes ago, jservedio said:

Which is why I didn't quote that part. In any case, the tank is way, way, way over-stocked with fish and that is almost certainly the source of the problems.

 

You also can't expect a 6 month old tank started with dry rock to be in any way comparable to the rock in a ToTM tank - even new tanks started with the best live rock aren't going to be comparable because even if they superficially look the same, the population sizes of everything inhabiting those rocks aren't remotely stable and it'll take years to get there and develop.

 

As someone with a fair amount of dry rock in my tank, even after the tank had been running for 8 years, new dry rock still takes more than a year to not stand out as a white rock and become mostly colonized.

I started my entire tank with dry rock.  I know it takes months (years)...but it won't evolve if he keeps his lights off to prevent algae from growing...and my point with the ToTM reference was so he knows that rock is SUPPOSED to be covered in things...you don't want it to be completely white or constantly be cleaning the algae off of it thinking that the algae is bad for the tank.  The algae will grow and die off in it's own time.

 

The tank being overstocked has nothing to do with why his corals have been closed for almost 2 months unless a fish is purposely feeding on those corals.

[jservedio]

One other thing to check is to check your new salt water from the LFS for Ammonia. Also, what are you using for topoff water?

 

23 minutes ago, j.falk said:

The tank being overstocked has nothing to do with why his corals have been closed for almost 2 months unless a fish is purposely feeding on those corals.

Corals are not going to be happy with ammonia, especially a finicky coral like elegance - it's not going to tolerate any at all. There is ammonia coming from somewhere or there wouldn't be nitrite currently testable in the water column - wildly overstocked with fish is a pretty good candidate for ammonia especially if they were not added all at once. There doesn't appear to be anything dead and decaying, so your sources could be:

• Waste from Fish
• Freshly Mixed Saltwater (though this is generally well, well under 0.1ppm)
• Topoff Water

Scrubbing green algae from your rock or doing a 24 hour blackout every now and again isn't going to matter to your corals. There isn't much information to work with, so the only options are to address the issues we know about and ask questions.

[Matteo]

looking at your rock your tank looks pretty new still. That could be the issue. I know it has been 6 months but the rock looks like it just is getting diatoms and coraline 

[The_Pharaoh]

13 hours ago, jservedio said:

One other thing to check is to check your new salt water from the LFS for Ammonia. Also, what are you using for topoff water?

 

Corals are not going to be happy with ammonia, especially a finicky coral like elegance - it's not going to tolerate any at all. There is ammonia coming from somewhere or there wouldn't be nitrite currently testable in the water column - wildly overstocked with fish is a pretty good candidate for ammonia especially if they were not added all at once. There doesn't appear to be anything dead and decaying, so your sources could be:

• Waste from Fish
• Freshly Mixed Saltwater (though this is generally well, well under 0.1ppm)
• Topoff Water

Scrubbing green algae from your rock or doing a 24 hour blackout every now and again isn't going to matter to your corals. There isn't much information to work with, so the only options are to address the issues we know about and ask questions.

I cant source Alkalinity tests, I have to pay obscene amounts of money to deliver a sample to a chemistry lab at the local university to get it tested and last time I did that (2 months ago) my salinity was 1.026 and I was told how to decrease to 1,025 and my alkalinity was 7 so i increased it to 8 using a buffer and everything else was perfect. Regarding overstocking, my LFS told me I can have 5-6 fish there so I stopped at 4 to be safe, now you are saying it is overstocked and is now stressing me out a lot.

 

For top-off I use RO water, RODI here is only for factories and large scale businesses and are only sold in bulks to companies. So I have RO which I add dechlorination solution to remove the chlorine.

 

My ammonia is 0 so thats not the problem. Is my protein skimmer being on for 8 hours a problem? I learned that it shouldn't be on all the time, especially when lights are off.

 

Lastly, as I mentioned that I cant mix my own salt water, my only option here is to buy LFS pre mixed water.

[aclman88]

I agree with @jservedio that you tank is overstocked.  Whether or not that is the cause of your issues is up for debate, but it absolutely is not helping.  Did you add all the fish at once?  When did you add your last fish?  It his possible that you are experiencing a cycle, especially if your test of 5 nitrites is accurate, since that should always be at zero.

 

I would actually tell you to up your lighting, since its possible the elegance isn't getting enough light.  a 7 hour light cycle is pretty short.  When my candy canes were being shaded by my Kenya tree they actually closed up.  I removed the Kenya tree and lo and behold, they puffed right back up.  I would also recommend you remove two of your fish, since in the long run they will get too big and you will run into nothing but issues whether it be cycles, fish aggression, algae, etc.  

 

Lastly, stability is key.  Pick a water change routine and lighting schedule and stick with it for a while.  Randomly shutting off lights for days or changing filtration or skimming a lot is going throw off the balance of your tank.  My pico always looks better when I just let things be.  I would keep your skimmer running solely because you have so many fish in that tank.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[mitten_reef]

This is gonna be a long one, as your information is a bit spotty, I hope these questions allow you to fill us in on some gaps.

5 hours ago, The_Pharaoh said:

I cant source Alkalinity tests

If you have an LFS, I'm not sure why they won't provide necessary supplies such as basic testing kits.  you're not looking at a lab service (we call those ICP analysis), but rather a hobby-level, color-based test kits, like this one for example: https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/.  Even the most basic brand like API (at least it's considered fairly basic here in US) https://apifishcare.com/products/aquarium/saltwater/water-testing has test kits spanning the entire saltwater needs (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, ca, alk, etc).  your LFS should be able to source them.  OR You may stumble onto a business opportunity if, truly, no one is providing such testing supplies for the hobby in your home country.  

 

5 hours ago, The_Pharaoh said:

my alkalinity was 7 so i increased it to 8 using a buffer and everything else was perfect.

could this be an issue?  are you using the right product to raise the alkalinity?  did you send samples in back to the lab to verify, since you mention they had to be sent to uni's lab?

 

5 hours ago, The_Pharaoh said:

So I have RO which I add dechlorination solution to remove the chlorine.

you should not need dechlorinator in RO water.  I'm using RO water from LFS, it's fine, most LFS don't run DI stage because they go thru much more water than hobbyists.  Altho I won't suspect that this was the issue.

 

I don't see any mention of water flow/movement within the tank.  Corals need good water flow to help bring them food and remove their waste from around them (remember these are stationary animal - they eat and poo in in the same physical space, and literally using the same opening on their body).  What are you feeding the corals?    

 

Lastly, as previously pointed out, consistency and routine/schedule on EVERYTHING is the key.  you can't play with light schedule - set it, find the right amount of on-time, and stick with it.  consistent water change is important in a young tank.  DO NOT mess with the rocks, your tank will not mature, if you keep taking them out to rinse and scrub (what are you cleaning them in anyway, could be another source of issue).  There are no such things as white rocks in a reef tank - repeat, no white rocks in a reef tank - if you have white rocks, your corals will not thrive - end of story.  

[mcarroll]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:30 AM, The_Pharaoh said:

I cant source Alkalinity tests,

If you can at least get a decent pH test kit (or meter) then you can aerate your sample (ideally outside since indoor air usually has elevated CO2 levels), test pH, and then infer alk from pH....within limits of the accuracy of your pH testing.

http://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21967,Water-pp424-425.pdf

 

You can also make a DIY alkalinity test without too much trouble, depending on what resource ARE actually available.

http://www.reefedition.com/a-diy-alkalinity-test-by-randy-holmes-farley/

 

Neither of these are nearly as fast/easy as using a basic Salifert Alkalinity kit where it's all set up for you, including the hardware needed to do it correctly.

 

Alkalinity maintenance is possibly the single most crucial aspect of success when it comes to keeping stony corals.  Without SOME ability to test for it, your abilities with stony corals will (IMO) be limited.

 

Depending on how sustainable water changes are for you, you might consider working toward 100% water changes that you amend with minimum or ideal levels of nitrates, phosphates and possibly other factors.

 

Personally, without the ability to test alkalinity, I would just keep things other than stony corals.

 

On 7/22/2020 at 10:40 AM, The_Pharaoh said:

Wait what? Really? I went through the algea stage already but not anymore, I do everything in my power to remove any algea like keeping lights off for a full day every once in a while to mimic a thunderstorm and to keep my snail and blenny feeding off the algea and I scrub daily. What should I do? I thought a clean tank is what is always aesthetically pleasing.

Yep he's right.  Here's the thing...algae and corals like the same growing conditions.  Therefore, "no algae" means that something is also wrong for corals.  Your tank has been running for 6 months but by the amount of algae you'd have to guess that it was only 6 weeks.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by "everything in my power" in your quote?  (Folks often go wrong in the area of algae control.)  You mentioned water changes and blacking out the lights – please be as specific as you can about anything else you tried or that you do regularly.

 

Based on your test numbers and how clean your rocks look even after six months, I'm willing to bet that you have a very low- or zero-level of phosphates in the water.

 

Can you get phosphate fertilizer?  Seachem Flourish Phosphate seems to be the most common, but anything based on sodium- or potassium phosphate (and nothing else) would work fine.  (eg. plant fertilizer). If you can, I would consider making daily or weekly 0.03 ppm doses for a predetermined number of days or weeks and see whether it makes a positive difference.

[Tired]

Algae isn't a bad thing. If it's outcompeting and overgrowing your corals, that's bad, but tanks are supposed to have algae on the rocks. Stop scrubbing the rocks, you're removing all sorts of beneficial organisms. You'll probably see an algae bloom, since the algae has a lot of empty space to overtake, but that's fine. Keep your parameters reasonable (but not with nitrates and phosphates at 0, or your corals will starve), have a reasonable number of cleanup critters, and it will sort itself out. 

[Tamberav]

The tank is too small for that wrasse long term.

 

The tank looks too clean...be sure to feed your fish every day.

 

Elegance corals are finicky and it may be a struggle in such a young tank with limited resources. 

 

What light do you use? Mine will close up if it's unhappy with lighting.

 

A nano tank can absolutely be run without testing as long as the salt water for water changes is reliable and try not to load the tank up with too many stony corals. Pick a few favorites and then go for softies.