Ich or lymphocystis

[Candymancan]

So my 135g has alot of fish in it and cirals.  Ive delt with ich in the past and i finally got fed up with my entire tank dying and took drastic measures.  I took my then onky 30 coral frags out and put them in a smaller fallow tank.  I bought the fish i wanted spending probly 600$ and put them in my main tank.   I did hyposalinity for 2 months.  I did cupramine for lil over a week aftee the 2 months and yes i did cupramine with hypo for those 1-2 weeks. 

 

I stopped noticing ich though about 1-2 weeks in hypo.   Anyway i havent seen ich in my tank for 8 months now.  However i have gotten more fish and corals urchins ect in those 8 months time.  But the corals always came from ich free tanks. A scientist who studies ich on a article stated urchins and starfish are unable to have the ich cysts attach to them when they fall off. So i just dipped those in tank water in a bucket for a few hours to rinse the water in and on them.  

 

Any new fish i got has been in hyposalinity for 1-2 months or tank transfer if they cant handle hypo.  Im a huge advocate for qt now.

 

However i do have that lymphocystis virus. And occasionally i see a fish or two get it.  I once had a yellow tang riddled in it and it looked identical nearly to ich even though he was in hypo for months. The cysts also took weeks to fall off. Sometimes though its too hard to tell whats what.

 

I have 6 tangs in my tank.  Blond Naso,sailfin, yellow tang, powder brown, yellow eye kole, and tomini.  Along with a long nose butterfly, two clowns, flame angel, foxface and 10 green chromis.

 

Not one fish is showing ich.  But my powderbrown is covered in dots probly 20 or so. But he kinda had this in hypo too.. so im wondering..  They look like lymphocystis but they also look like ich (remember my yellow tang i mentioned) i cant friggen tell if its ich or lympho.  I think lympho because i just dont see how only 1 tang or 1 fish would have it but not 1 cyst shows up on any other fish.   It also doesnt seem to (fall off) in 3 days like ich..  but yea.

 

My tank has 0 aggression as well.  So i dunno.

 

Sorry i always make long posts.. but what do you guys think ?  Is it even possible for ich to only show on 1 tang with 6 tangs in a tank lol ? Or is it more likely its lymphocysts ?  Sorry i know this is a hard to answer question.  These is the only pics i could get of the guy hes so skittish of me when i look at him lol

[Candymancan]

Or maybe it is ich.. im reading powder brown and blue tend to be the # 1 ich magnet in a tank.. might explain why inly he has it and the others dont..  dang man.   I hate ich.  Doing hypo in the tank isnt an option and i have far too msny fish to qt together.  So since hes acting fine and eating fine.. I guess ill just keeo doing what im doing.

 

I just wonder if he keeos getting infected like this that itll raise the load of parasites in the tank to a point where others will start getting it.

 

I guess well see what happens.  Might habe to start buying big tupperware containers to house tons of fish in hypo and let the tank go fallow for a few months.  Dangit

[Clown79]

Hard to tell in the pic.

[Humblefish]

Are the white spots protruding outward? Dangling off the fish??

[Candymancan]

No dangling but they stick out far and look oddly shapped.  But i think its ich.  Im niticing it now on other fish. And for thrm it looks like ich.  So this guy must just have covered in alot of slime coat.

 

This sucks.  So far ive seen a dot or two on my sailfin, naso, yellow, and long nose butterfly.  Nothing major and they dissapear overnight which is interesting i thought ich stayed on for 3-7 days.

 

Anyway. Now i gatta decide what to do.  No idea who this came on because ive done qt and hypo or tank transfer on every fish.

 

Almost wondering if its been lurking in my tank for awhile.  But the powder brown tang is the one allowing it to multiply.  Because hes the onky one getting 10-20 dots on him.  No one else.  

 

Im debating on just taking him out. Putting jim in hyposalinity and leaving him by himself in a seperate tank.  This way it keep ichs population lvl down in my tank if that makes sense ?  Because if one fish is getting 20 dots all the time then hes the breeder for it.  Apecially since no one else is getting it except 1 or 2 dots now that its breeding off him.

 

My other option is to take my two discus and substrate and plants outa my 60g hexagon.  Return my 20g QT to normal salinity.  And move the rocks with excrusting corals and leathers with a little sand into my 60g. And move the corals i can pop off the rocks into my 20g.  Use them for coral holding tanks.   And put my main tank into hyposalinity for 6-8 weeks.

 

Id have to take my long nose flame angel wrasse and dottyback and of course snails cravs urchins and my starfish out though as they cant handle hypo.  But i can keep all my other fish in there.  Then do tank transfer on the fish i took out.

 

This will be a giant pain the ass to do though.  And i might lose fish or corals doing this.  For example 6-8 weeks of hypo will kill off algae and my kole tang relies on algae he doesnt eat prepared foods.  My long nose butterfly eats mysis but his main diet is pods in ny tank so he could possible starve to death.   I also might lose some corals doing this i onky have 1 fixture with my t5s for my 60g hex the 20g will have to use a led full spectrum light.

 

Ive done hypo in the main tank before and put corals into my 20g with one if ny t5 fixtures with ati bulbs on it. And lost no corals. I lost no fish either and i was ich free for 8 months. Until i atarted getting more fish and inverts recently so someone brought it in my tank.  But now i have 3x as many corals and they are all fairly large now.

 

What would you guys do ?  Take the powder brown tang out to keep the (breeder) out of the tank ? Because none of my other 5 tangs are getting it.. just 1 or 2 spots but it goes away after just a few hours.   And those 1 or 2 spots could be because the powder brown is allowing a higher ich load to exist in the tank.  Make sense ?  Ill always have ich but it wont be a bother.   

 

Or should i go drastic.. remove the corals. Move ny discus outs my 60g.  And do hypo for 2 months leaving the corals and inverts fallow for 2 months as well.  And do tank transfer on the other fish.   This way i eliminate ich for good but this way i might lose corals or fish.  Vs just leaving everything alone and taking the ich magnet out.

 

Better pic the other pics. See my other fish dont really have anything.. its really just this powder brown tang

[Humblefish]

I don't think that's Ich. Looks more like viral nodules (cells clustering together), or possibly something bacterial. There are viruses other than Lymphocystis. Ich free swimmers burrow in under the epithelium (outer skin layer), trophonts form and the excess mucous (white dots) will appear to be just under the skin as well. Looks more like white bumps than protrusions. What is visible to the naked eye are oval shaped white dots which range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers. The white spots on your fish appear to be irregular shaped.

[Humblefish]

Ich on a Hippo Tang:

 

[Candymancan]

Yea thats what i was saying to s guy on another forum.. i cant get a pictures to be 100% what im seeing.. but for example when the fish turns to face me i can then see his sides right. And when i look at tje bumps they are odd shaped and stick pretty far out.. they also look greyish white.. not pure white slightly raised circles.. does that make sense ? 

 

Because ive had lymphocystsi on a yellow tang once who had major ich.. ich fell off in a week and never came back as he was in hypo and for 2 months.. and lymphocystis suddenly showed up and looked nearly identical to ich i thought it was ich for a long time so i kept him in hypo for another month but then realised it wasnt ich. When they did fall off it gave him a bacterial infection too.  Here isa pic of that yellow tang.  (Dont worry hes alive fat and healthy now) 

 

See the dots ? Looks like ich right ? It was lymphocystsis.. he was in hypo at 1.007 for 3 months in this picture.

 

And what my powder brown tang has looks like these. Here isa closer pic of the powder brown.  The ones i circled its hard to tell but for me as i can see em better. These are thin and extend out.  They did fall off about a week later but some are still there.

 

I dunno i guess all i can do is keep observing my fish daily and see what happens.  My fish are so fat and healthy im not worried about anyone dying from ich so well see i guess

 

[Humblefish]

@Candymancan

 

Many fish carry viruses inside their body, but are asymptomatic until something stresses their immune system. And then symptoms flare! Many tangs I treat with copper or Chloroquine will display nodules like what you are seeing roughly 2-3 weeks into treatment. When this happens I only feed them vitamin soaked foods rich in probiotics, but many times the nodules won't 100% clear until they are out of medicated water.

[Candymancan]

Yea ive seen fish get nodules when treating with cupramine.  Ive also seen tangs get erosion on their heads and bodies if in hypo for long periods of time and then growths form in the erosion.

 

Sadky no treatment is safe for fish.

 

I guess for now ill observe my fish.  Im hoping it isnt ich.. because i did hypo on any new fish i got for min 6 weeks.. i did buy hermits but i did tank transfer on them for at least 2 weeks. Same with my butterfly and flame angel since they die in hypo i did tank transfer on them.

 

 

[mcarroll]

On 12/20/2019 at 2:01 PM, Candymancan said:

So my 135g has alot of fish in it

 

On 12/25/2019 at 6:41 PM, Humblefish said:

Many fish carry viruses inside their body, but are asymptomatic until something stresses their immune system. And then symptoms flare!

 

If you're sure there are no OTHER problems, then overstocking is the likely issue that's keeping their immune system's down IMO.  Sounds to me like (and by your own account) you have a lot of fish in a small six-foot tank.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 2:01 PM, Candymancan said:

I have 6 tangs in my tank.  Blond Naso,sailfin, yellow tang, powder brown, yellow eye kole, and tomini.  Along with a long nose butterfly, two clowns, flame angel, foxface and 10 green chromis.

 

Yeah, that's a lot!

 

On top of the numbers themselves, that Naso is a tank buster all by himself.

 

If you can permanently thin out your fish population I think you'll see these problems disappear without needing to make other changes.

 

Half-measure that may (should) help in the meantime:

• improve food quality if possible:  live > refrigerated or whole frozen > processed frozen > frozen non-marine > dry foods
• employ micron filtration and/or UV filtration on the display tank
• treat the tank with something reef safe like the products from Ruby Reef

Those last two will keep the infectious agents in the water to the lowest level.

 

The first one (improving food quality) will give the fish the best shot at rebuilding/maintaining their immune systems while they continue fighting off these baddies.

 

But if the stress remains that's causing all this, ultimately you're fighting a losing battle.  And I don't see anything that stands out as a stress aside from the high stocking level -- which is a known and serious stressor.

 

If you can upgrade to something closer to 300 gallons, that could be another permanent solution.  Do it sooner than later though.  I know this is the option you really want, so you have my permission.  😉

 

For conventional tanks, consider the Aqeon 180 or 210 or Marineland's 180, 220XL as the smallest possible upgrades...bordering on not worthwhile. 

 

Marineland's 265 would be the most ideal of the conventional options, at 7' long.

 

Of course glasscages.com or any of the custom builders can set you up with something larger.  Glasscages lists a "300 Wide" for only $1600.  Seems like a bargain considering the collection of fish you've put together!  👍

[Candymancan]

Not losing anything lol and your smartass scare tactics of them being thinned doen naturally isnt scaring me.  Ive been doing this long enough to see through ppls bs man.  All i wanted to know is if it was ich or lympho not your opinion on my stocking of MY tank. (Note my tank not yours) since it was just on one fish at the time i couldnt be sure since it looked off.  But since i see it on my long nose and flame angles fins im going to take action

 

  Im doing hypo in the main tank and moving my corals.  Ive done it before and worked fine until i got those inverts.

 

You guys are making this out to be a big deal when it really isnt.  Its just a pain in the ass.  Stress has nothing to do with anything.  Ive had half as many fish in the past.. actually less than half only 5 fish and 2 smaller tangs in my 135 at one point and lost them all to ich before i knew about hypo.  

 

Stress has nothing to do with it.  Its the one fish aka powder brown who keeps getting it and it making thr ich population too large control.   I bet if i took him out i wouldnt see ich on any of my fish after a few weeks when thr populstion of parasite drops back down.   Because im betting i had ich for quiet awhile hes my latest edition and was in hypo for 6 weeks. The other fish ive had for 6-7 months. Which means ich was already in my tank but no one was getting it.   Until i added him and he started to non stop keep getting ich thus bringing the parasite population up.

 

So instead of taking him out.  Ill just eliminate it all together..  going to remove half my rocks aka all the ones with encrusting corals.  A chunk of sand  put em in my 60g hex.  Move all my lps and sps in there.  The softies will go in the 20g if i cant fit all my corals in there but ill try.   Going to remove my inverts put em into the 60g, butterfly, flame angel, wrasse and dottyback, And put them into the 20g if i can fit all my corals into the 60g.   To save on salt ill just pump the water from my 135 into the 60g and 20g since i gatta drain it anyway.   

 

Put the 135 in 1.007 to 1.009 and just keep it there for 2 months or for as long as i can see the tangs handle it.  Then ill raise salinity and probably keep the corals fallow for another 3 weeks to be sure..  in those 3 weeks ill do strict tank transfer on the fish i took out who cant do hypo.  And then put em back in the main tank..  move my corals and hope i got rid of it.

 

My naso ive had for 1 year now.  Hes grown maybe 2 inchs.. hes only 5 to 6 inchs if that.  My sailfin and yellow tang are 6 years old was in a 350g tank, sailfin only 8 inchs he isnt growing anymore nore is the 5 inch in yellow.  A tomini tang is small so is a kole tang.  The rest of my fish are all tiny. But yes i do have alot of them.

 

I have 0 aggression in my tank as well.  Dont believe everything you read about fish.  Most Fish never get to oceon size when in captivity not even in 200 or 300g tanks.  Tangs also dont fight non stop like youre led to believe.  The only tangs of the same genus i have are sailfin and yellow and tomini and kole tang and they only look at eachother in the morning and neither of them are showing symptoms.

 

Its litterally just the powder brown whos the sickly one and there is no aggression on him either.  I have quiet a few fish who change colors based on stress and i see nothing.

 

Sure i wanna get a bigger tank. A 180 at least for more front to back room. But currently i have no room for it and having my 135 on the 3rd level is the max id be willing to have up here.  Beyond a 180 for 6 foot tanks is just height.  And ill be brutally honest, 2 or 3 or 4 inchs in height means diddly squat 

[mcarroll]

14 hours ago, Candymancan said:

Ive been doing this long enough to see through ppls bs man.

👌

 

A microscope would be a great idea, BTW.

[Candymancan]

I have one but its in stirage.  Anyway yesturday all my fish developed ich cysts.. this time it was clearly ich.  Not lymphocystis.  

 

So that deff confirmed it for me.  Even my foxface and chromis which are known to be ich resistant got it.   So i cleared my 2 discus live plants and sand outa my 60g hexagon into a 16g tub for now.  Ima grab my 27g hex outs storage and reseal it and use it for the discus. Its only 2 so theyll be fine

 

I somehow i dunno how. Managed to cram about 100lbs of rocks with my 60-70 corals into the hexagon and 12 hermits. 20+ snails 3 urchins and my starfish ive had for about 8 months.  I put about 1 inch of sand in there from the tank.   Because i dunno what the star fish is eating to stay alive so wanted to be sure, plus i wanted to save the fauna i have in my sand.

 

I took my yellow long nose butterfly, melenarous wrasse, sunrise dottyback and flame angel out and put them in my 20g long qt tank with some rock, and put my 135 in 1.007 hyposalinity.   Everyone is doing great today.  And im glad my yellow eye kole tang started eating prepared foods recently because everything in the tank is dead now and b4 all he ate was algae.   The 4 fish i took out im keeping in normal salinity because they cant handle hypo, until the last few weeks. Then ill do tank transfer on them all for 2-3 weeks. And put the qt back to hypo to eliminate the ich in it while i do that.   Ill probly get a 2nd qt tank to put my 4 fish in after tank transfer so i can observe them to be sure... 

 

So i marked the calender and now its a waiting game..   was such a pain to do this.. took me 10 hours to do but i refuse to have fish die or live with ich.

 

[Humblefish]

It sucks, but sometimes you have to do what you gotta do.

[Candymancan]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:15 PM, Humblefish said:

It sucks, but sometimes you have to do what you gotta do.

Humblefish.  The 5 fish i took out and put into a 20g qt tank (long nose butterfly, flame angel, melenarous wrasse, sunset dottybsck, kole tang) i took them all out because they cant handle hypo.  Well the kole tang can but those tangs get major skin erosion from it and he just healed from being in hypo for 4 weeks only recently within the last 2 months. So i didnt put him in hypo again.

 

Anyway these fish im unsure what to do.  For now they have been in the 20g tank in normal salinity no meds.  Ich keeps coming and going on them but its slowely getting worse.  My original plan was to do tank transfer on them but i dunno.  Do you think copper would be ok on these fish ?  I know butterflies and flame angels can be sensitive to it.  And id rather not kill and 80$ flame and 50$ butterfly.

 

I have cupramine but my experience with it is always mixed results . Also im missing the white tray for seachems test kit.  I was thinking could i use api vials.  Basically use the copper dropper to fill the vial like you do the tray. Do all the mixtures like normal but put the glass vial under a white sheet of paper to see the results.  Kinda like how the api copper test kit works.

 

What dosage do you recomend if i do cupramine for these sensitive fish ?  I was thinking around .3 or .35.  Or do you think i should do tank transfer and nuke this 20g to make it sterile while i do tank transfer.  Funds are kinda low atm and i dont really have the ability to tsnk transfer each fish seperatly so i have to do all 5 together and theyd be crammed in 5 gallon buckets.. 

[Candymancan]

Ima just do tank transfer now. I hate to do it with 6 fish ina bucket but thats all i have are buckets.  Gonna bleach the 20g and let ot dry out while i do this. And when tank transfer is done ill put the fish back in and observe them.   But then i gatta worry about ammonia because the tank wont be cycled anymore.   Uhg. Such a pain tank transfer is 

[mcarroll]

Good luck -- that's a serious undertaking you have ahead!

 

I just wanna remind that fish get susceptible like this (on-again-off-again Ich) because of stress.

 

The fish are apparently stressed, which tweaks the immune system and makes them susceptible. 

 

But thankfully whatever stress it is is borderline since they can apparently kick the infection on their own.

 

If you get lucky and eradicate one parasite (e.g. Ich), but don't resolve the issue that's causing the stress, then you'll end up with another problem -- just not Ich.  LOTS to choose from....bacterial, viral, flat worms, dino's (velvet), etc.  It's a long potential list.

 

(Ich isn't the worst thing to have, since it's obviously not killing your animals, and it's easily seen and curable.  You just have to worry a little about what you could trade the Ich for since it's almost sure to be worse than Ich.)

 

Everything can be pathogenic to a critter with a compromised immune system....even normal intestinal microbes.

 

If you think lack of adequate tank space is not the cause of the stress, hopefully you can find another cause for it -- that'll leave your fish in a much better position post-TTM, 

[Candymancan]

Ich can be eliminated though thats what im trying to tell you..  Ive done it before.  Why must you think its ok to live with ich ?  Its not.  I chose not to live with it.  As for velvet or what not the only thing i have in the tank besides ich is lymphocystis ive seen it spring up in the past when i did copper as copper tends to bring lympho out by causing weakend immune systems as you mentioned.

 

But yea it is a big undertaking. One most people dont do because their (lazy) its better for the fish in the end to eliminate ich by taking drastic measures such as moving the corals or moving the fish and treating them and leaving the tank empty.  Then to jist leave them in a tank where they get ich day in and day out.

 

Just because you dont see ich in (low stress) such as you put it doesnt mean it isnt in their gills.  Ich needs a host to live.  So even if you had the most stress free environment and you never see ich.. itll still be there..  because its always infecting the fish.. just not to where you can see it.  It needs a host within hours otherwise it dies.. So its foolish to think youre in the clear by not seeing it by keeping stress low.

 

Thats why id rather eliminate it.  Ill keep the thread updated on my progress.  So far its been 9 days ? For hypo, no fish loss no ich.   And the corals are all still doing great. I havent lost 1.  The 20g qt is undergoing bleaching along with my nets and the rock and sand i had in it. ( not alot of rock just a little)  oll keep the tank bleached for about 2 days.  Then ill drain. Rinse it and drsin. And probably refill it with fresh water and let it sit for a day or two.  Then ill drain it again and let it air dry for the last 10 days as i continue tank transfer. 

 

Then after 14 days of transfer i ill refill the 20g and set it back up and put the fish back in and observe them for the re-mainder of the probly 40 days left hyposalinity.  Hopefully tank transfer works i really dont wanna have to use copper or bring it back to my main tank lol.  Ill probly buy a 500ml bottle of fritzyme 9 to help speed up cycling the 20g qt so i dont have to deal with ammonia and recycling the tank when i put the fish back in the qt tank.  Ive used that stuff before it litterally instant cycles tanks works great

[Clown79]

16 minutes ago, Candymancan said:

Ich can be eliminated though thats what im trying to tell you..  Ive done it before.  Why must you think its ok to live with ich ?  Its not.  I chose not to live with it.  As for velvet or what not the only thing i have in the tank besides ich is lymphocystis ive seen it spring up in the past when i did copper as copper tends to bring lympho out by causing weakend immune systems as you mentioned.

 

But yea it is a big undertaking. One most people dont do because their (lazy) its better for the fish in the end to eliminate ich by taking drastic measures such as moving the corals or moving the fish and treating them and leaving the tank empty.  Then to jist leave them in a tank where they get ich day in and day out.

 

Just because you dont see ich in (low stress) such as you put it doesnt mean it isnt in their gills.  Ich needs a host to live.  So even if you had the most stress free environment and you never see ich.. itll still be there..  because its always infecting the fish.. just not to where you can see it.  It needs a host within hours otherwise it dies.. So its foolish to think youre in the clear by not seeing it by keeping stress low.

 

Thats why id rather eliminate it.  Ill keep the thread updated on my progress.  So far its been 9 days ? For hypo, no fish loss no ich.   And the corals are all still doing great. I havent lost 1.  The 20g qt is undergoing bleaching along with my nets and the rock and sand i had in it. ( not alot of rock just a little)  oll keep the tank bleached for about 2 days.  Then ill drain. Rinse it and drsin. And probably refill it with fresh water and let it sit for a day or two.  Then ill drain it again and let it air dry for the last 10 days as i continue tank transfer. 

 

Then after 14 days of transfer i ill refill the 20g and set it back up and put the fish back in and observe them for the re-mainder of the probly 40 days left hyposalinity.  Hopefully tank transfer works i really dont wanna have to use copper or bring it back to my main tank lol.  Ill probly buy a 500ml bottle of fritzyme 9 to help speed up cycling the 20g qt so i dont have to deal with ammonia and recycling the tank when i put the fish back in the qt tank.  Ive used that stuff before it litterally instant cycles tanks works great

I agree.

Ich does often appear during stressful times as the immune system is compromised but stress is not the cause. The parasite being in the tank and continuing to have hosts to live on is the reason ich often reappears- it was never gone to begin with just in a different stage in its cycle of life.

 

If it were the case that ich always comes with stress in a tank, at some point or another every tank would have ich.

 

I'm a full believer and through research it has been confirmed-ich can be eradicated from a tank(same with velvet/brook) but it must go fallow for a minimum of 8 weeks.

 

It's a real pain to have to go fallow and treat but I think in the end it's the best approach.

 

I think treating the fish in a small tank or bucket is far better than it having to live with parasites.

 

 

[Candymancan]

Yea thats why im doing this.  Plus of course they all broke out.  

 

Im wondering.  Would this be feasible.  Since ive veen in hypo for 9 days now.  The fish are ich free themselves.  And the free floating parasites are dead..  but its just the encysted ones in the sand and rock that are still there and thats the reason why hyposalinity needs to be done so long 6-8 weeks min.

 

What if i were to take the fish out.. put them in a clean 16g tub temp.   Then bleach the main tank  and equipment and tops ect for 24 hours.   Then drain the tank rinse it drain it again and refill it eith fresh water and let it sit for another 24 hrs for the bleach to evaporate.   

 

Would this eliminate the ich cysts in the sand and rock and on the tank and equipment ?  Since the fish should be ich free.  All ill have to do is restart the tanks cycle with fritszyme 9.  Ive used 1 gallon of it b4 in my 135 and it took ammonia from 2ppm to 0 in a day instant cycling it.   

 

I dont care about my biological filter because i can get it back easily.  but i do care about subjecting the fish to hypo for 2 months simple because you gatta wait for the cysts in the sand to hatch.  

 

Am i making sense here ?  I wonder if this has been tried.   Get the ich off the fish kill the free floating ones.  Then take the fish out. Bleach the tank and put em back in thus eliminating nearly 2 months of waiting in hyposalinity.

 

 

[Humblefish]

@Candymancan TTM is the best way to eliminate Ich; however it treats Ich and Ich only. Meaning, if this happened to be velvet or brook or some other parasite regular TTM wouldn't clear it.

 

Copper treats both Ich & velvet. Chloroquine actually treats Ich, velvet, brook & uronema. So, it has the widest spectrum of treatment.

 

If you are sure it's Ich and want to perform TTM, then I would actually do "Hybrid" TTM: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/407149-hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites/

 

Just as an insurance policy. 😉

 

[Candymancan]

Nah its deffo ich.  I havent seen cysts on my fish in the 135 for 6 days now since i started hypo 9 days ago.  

 

Humble do you think my idea would work ?  Since the fish themselvs should ve ich free being in hypo for 9 going on 10 days.  The waiting game is just for the encrusted ones in the sand snd rock to hatch.  What if i just rrmove the fish and nuke the tank with bleach for 24 hrs.  Drain rinse. And let the bleach evaporate.  Then jump start the tank with a gallon of BB and put the fish bsck in.   Im curious if this would be a quicker way.

 

Since the fish are free of ich its just the ones sitting in the sand that takes so much time to wait for up to 76 or whatever days.  I figure if you nuke em then itll be done. And ich free.

 

I mean its basically what im doing already.. nuking my 20g with bleach while i do TTM and then putting the fish back in the nuked tank after 14 days.. am i making sense here on this theory ? Because we all know ich takes 3-7 days to fall off.  So it should be off my fish by now and hypo killed the free floating ones already.  Im essentually wasting time waiting for the ones in the sand to hatch.  So if i nuke em it should save me weeks and weeks 

[mcarroll]

14 hours ago, Candymancan said:

Ich can be eliminated though thats what im trying to tell you..  Ive done it before.  Why must you think its ok to live with ich ?  Its not.  I chose not to live with it.  As for velvet or what not the only thing i have in the tank besides ich is lymphocystis ive seen it spring up in the past when i did copper as copper tends to bring lympho out by causing weakend immune systems as you mentioned.

I think you're talking to someone else since I didn't say any of that, right?

 

14 hours ago, Candymancan said:

But yea it is a big undertaking.

You got my point.

 

14 hours ago, Candymancan said:

Just because you dont see ich in (low stress) such as you put it doesnt mean it isnt in their gills.

You got it!  Excellent.

 

Without external stress, they would heal up completely and not continually relapse like they have been on you.

 

13 hours ago, Candymancan said:

hypo

I'm not aware of anyone using hypo anymore. 

 

As far as I've read, you can do a freshwater dip and that change in salinity is enough of a shock to parasites to knock them off the host.

 

Hypo does almost nothing at all.   

 

It's unequivocally a lot of stress net-catching fish though....so whatever you do it for should be more worth it than that IMO.

 

A supporting journal article about hypo and Ich with lots of other good and relevant details too:

http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf

[Humblefish]

14 hours ago, Candymancan said:

Humble do you think my idea would work ?  Since the fish themselvs should ve ich free being in hypo for 9 going on 10 days.  The waiting game is just for the encrusted ones in the sand snd rock to hatch.  What if i just rrmove the fish and nuke the tank with bleach for 24 hrs.  Drain rinse. And let the bleach evaporate.  Then jump start the tank with a gallon of BB and put the fish bsck in.   Im curious if this would be a quicker way.

My concern with ending hypo early is it is probably the least effective method for treating Ich. I know of at least two studies which describe hypo resistant strains. But keep in mind that resistance doesn't always mean ineffective; sometimes treatment just takes longer. So on the off chance you encountered one of these strains, a full 30 days worth of exposure would increase the chances of 100% eradication since at least 4 generations of theronts would have to survive osmotic shock.

 

Therefore, I personally would treat for 30 days if using hyposalinity to eliminate Ich.