Luke's 20 Gallon Simple Reef Tank

[Tired]

Oh, and, in case this wasn't clear enough: this is absolutely not a dangerous thing. You could put fish in right now. It's just algae in the water, it won't hurt them unless you somehow cause it to die off all at once, like with poisons. In fact, the dimmed light effect may help them settle in a bit faster. Heck, pop a couple of easy corals in there (best stick to hardier things while the tank is new) and watch 'em go to town eating. 

[Luke78]

5 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

That's okay - this is the place for all of the questions lol - also, know that you do not have to do what I or anyone recommends as it's all just collaborative speculation - and besides, even my practices can/should be questionable. Like @Tired stated, it's not uncommon for phyto to be cultured by some hobbyists and dosed daily or weekly into their systems to sustain pod and other micro-organism populations; I do this myself. When I see blooms, I ask myself how can I utilize it - be it for providing food for more CUC, or maybe it's something worth culturing for later? I have started many tanks up, maybe too many, and have learned to get excited when I see algae growing, no matter what kind - they are all signs of the system balancing itself; they are also all signs of consistent nitrate production which leads into another point: your cycle is definitely done, you can add fish and coral - actually this current environment is prime for both. Again, ask as many questions as necessary. I am hoping that you don't feel discouraged anymore, you're doing a great job so far and everything is on track!

Thank you, I never thought about it like that.

[Luke78]

4 hours ago, Tired said:

Oh, and, in case this wasn't clear enough: this is absolutely not a dangerous thing. You could put fish in right now. It's just algae in the water, it won't hurt them unless you somehow cause it to die off all at once, like with poisons. In fact, the dimmed light effect may help them settle in a bit faster. Heck, pop a couple of easy corals in there (best stick to hardier things while the tank is new) and watch 'em go to town eating

Wow, I didn't know that. I figured that the algae/bacteria would be consuming all of the oxygen in the water. I will try and get my hands on some fish or coral over the weekend, but it may not happen because of a couple family events.

[Luke78]

I am sorry that I have not been updating the tank recently. Things have been really busy with school. I will post a more formal update tomorrow. Things have not been going so great as of late. The water has remained cloudy and in the past day or so I've been picking up ammonia readings (.25 ppm), which really scares me because I thought the tank was already cycled. One of my snails died and it has caused an excess in ammonia and so far, the readings dipped down a bit right after a water change, but proceeded to go back up. I'm so glad that I decided not to purchase any fish because I would not want to bring them into such a terrible home.

[Tired]

If you removed the dead snail, but are seeing the ammonia still increasing, then something is causing it to increase. Do large water changes until it stops doing that- whatever's rotting will eventually finish decaying.

[Luke78]

Also, this grey stuff has been building up around my tank and it forms in lines. Its really powdery and is easily stirred. Is this something to be worried about?

[Luke78]

1 minute ago, Tired said:

If you removed the dead snail, but are seeing the ammonia still increasing, then something is causing it to increase. Do large water changes until it stops doing that- whatever's rotting will eventually finish decaying.

I believe that some of the dead snail pieces escaped from the shell when I removed it from the aquarium and it is still in there somewhere. When I discovered that the snail was dead, it was pretty much liquified. 

 

[Tired]

Yeah, that can happen. Do a big water change so the ammonia is at 0, then repeat when it rises, and so on. Ammonia will do a lot of harm to the critters you already have. 

[Luke78]

Day 55

 

Parameters are all normal

 

Sorry for such a delay for this update. The tank has cleared up exponentially and the mini cycle is has finished. There are places where brown algae is growing, but it is not getting out of hand by any means. If I can make time, I will try and make a trip to the LFS to buy some livestock. This however, is highly unlikely with it being time for Christmas and family gatherings. The water has cleared up mostly due to me running carbon, but I will see what it looks like without it when I take the hob filter off next week. I also did a 10% water change today and removed much of the built up detritus. I'll have a picture posted later tonight.

[Luke78]

I don't know why the picture is blurry, but here it is

 

 

[billygoat]

Glad to hear things seem to be back on track after the ammonia episodes! 👌

 

One thing that struck me as I looked at your recent picture is that your tank doesn't have a lot of surfaces for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. With only a few chunks of rock and no sand, you're going to have a relatively weak biological filter, which could have had an impact on your tank's difficulties processing ammonia last month. I'm not a hundred percent sure how much rock it takes to make a "good" biofilter, but the amount you've got strikes me as a bit on the slim side (though you'd almost certainly be fine if you had a sandbed as well). I'm no expert on this, but it's just the impression that I get. Perhaps another helpful reefer can chime in and shed some light here. 🤔

On 12/9/2019 at 5:50 PM, Luke78 said:

Also, this grey stuff has been building up around my tank and it forms in lines. Its really powdery and is easily stirred. Is this something to be worried about?

Sounds like you're describing detritus buildup. Snail waste, dead algae, and other flotsam can often form lines and other patterns as they are blown by the current across bare-bottom tanks. Is it something you can easily siphon out? And does it occur on the walls of the tank as well as the bottom?

 

Good on you for sticking things out as you plow through the ugly phase! 😁

[Luke78]

11 hours ago, billygoat said:

Glad to hear things seem to be back on track after the ammonia episodes! 👌

 

One thing that struck me as I looked at your recent picture is that your tank doesn't have a lot of surfaces for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. With only a few chunks of rock and no sand, you're going to have a relatively weak biological filter, which could have had an impact on your tank's difficulties processing ammonia last month. I'm not a hundred percent sure how much rock it takes to make a "good" biofilter, but the amount you've got strikes me as a bit on the slim side (though you'd almost certainly be fine if you had a sandbed as well). I'm no expert on this, but it's just the impression that I get. Perhaps another helpful reefer can chime in and shed some light here. 🤔

On 12/9/2019 at 8:50 PM, Luke78 said:

Also, this grey stuff has been building up around my tank and it forms in lines. Its really powdery and is easily stirred. Is this something to be worried about?

Sounds like you're describing detritus buildup. Snail waste, dead algae, and other flotsam can often form lines and other patterns as they are blown by the current across bare-bottom tanks. Is it something you can easily siphon out? And does it occur on the walls of the tank as well as the bottom?

 

Good on you for sticking things out as you plow through the ugly phase! 😁

Yeah, I am going to get some aragonite sand this week not only because of the biofilter, but I decided that I just don't like the look of a bare bottom tank. The grey matter only occurs on the rockwork and on the bottom of the tank and it is very easily removed.

[Luke78]

Would a sandbed give the bacteria in the water column a place to settle? Could it help with the cloudiness problems? Right now, the only reason the tank is clear is because I'm running carbon and at the end of the day, it still gets slightly cloudy.

[billygoat]

2 hours ago, Luke78 said:

Would a sandbed give the bacteria in the water column a place to settle? Could it help with the cloudiness problems? Right now, the only reason the tank is clear is because I'm running carbon and at the end of the day, it still gets slightly cloudy.

The bacteria that grow in your sandbed are not the same as the ones that bloom in the water column, so adding sand is not likely to cause an immediate change in cloudiness - in fact it may even make things temporarily worse, since the sand will come with a bunch of silt that will cloud the water before it settles down. In the long run though, having a sandbed will significantly increase the effectiveness of your biological filter, which is likely to help address the issues that are causing your water cloudiness in the first place. So it's kind of a long-game play.

 

If you'd like to add sand, I would take the following steps:

1. Pick up a bag of live sand at your LFS. CaribSea's Arag-Alive is a popular brand that's available at most fish stores. I'd go for a variety of sand with a medium or mixed grain size, as the sugar-fine stuff can cause problems in the long run. A 20 lb. bag should be sufficient.
2. Perform a large water change. During the WC, remove the rocks from your tank and place them in a bucket. Scrape all of the film algae off the bottom of your tank and siphon out all of the detritus that has accumulated down there. You don't want any of that gunk getting caught under your sandbed, as it will decay and give you headaches later on.
3. Add the sand and spread it evenly across the bottom of the tank, then return the rocks to the tank and place them on top of the sand.
4. This should cause a small cycle, as the sand will come with organics that will decay and be processed into nitrates by your biofilter. Monitor your ammonia levels over the next week or so. They should rise and then fall again. Once they have done so, perform another large water change.
5. The tank is now ready for some working animals! I'd visit Reefcleaners.com and order a crew of snails, along with some hardy macroalgae like gracilaria or caulerpa. The snails will go to town on the pest algae on your rocks and glass, and the macroalgae will compete with the pest algae for nutrients. Together this combination of cleaners + good algae should help bring your nutrient levels (and therefore your phytoplankton blooms) under control.

Just a bunch of suggestions of course, but that's what I would do in your shoes! 😁

[Gravity]

Based on the BRS/WWC method a bare bottom tank is less stable year one but more stable in the future since you don’t have sand collecting detritus. Part of these first year issues is cloudiness, which isn’t necessarily bad a for critters, just unsightly. The cloudiness should disappear with time. My QT had some cloudy water that lasted a month or so and disappeared following a 50% water change. 
 

Adding sand should help select for film microbes that would out compete the free floating microbes but it may take some time for this to occur. But is not necessary for success. 

[Luke78]

I just picked up 20lbs of CaribSea Arag-Alive and I’m planning to drain the tank and add it in tonight. I decided to get some just for the added stability and because I don’t have much rock. I have also decided that the look of a bare bottom tank isn’t for me. I was also wondering if it would hurt to add some more live rock to the tank if it is established, but has no fish.

[Tired]

Adding rock won't hurt anything. You may lose some of your existing microfauna if you have a large ammonia spike, although that can be avoided by doing water changes. Or by getting rock that doesn't have any die-off on it to rot.

[Luke78]

Here is a picture of the tank right after the addition of the sand bed

 

[Luke78]

I will be on the lookout for ammonia levels and will order a cuc from reef cleaners when the parameters are balanced. I would have gotten some macro algae yesterday, but my lfs had cyano in their tanks, so I didn’t get any.

[Tired]

Cyano in a LFS tank is not the best thing to see, but doesn't necessarily mean anything bad. For one thing, you don't have to worry about the spores- your tank already has cyano, and will get more cyano spores in the future from all sorts of things. It's not a problem until conditions allow it to be a problem. 

[Luke78]

5 hours ago, Tired said:

Cyano in a LFS tank is not the best thing to see, but doesn't necessarily mean anything bad. For one thing, you don't have to worry about the spores- your tank already has cyano, and will get more cyano spores in the future from all sorts of things. It's not a problem until conditions allow it to be a problem. 

It’s petco, so I don’t really have high expectations of their water quality. I don’t buy my livestock from them, but since it is closer to me, I buy dry goods and such from them. I buy my livestock from another store that is much better and is an aquatics specific store.

[Luke78]

Here is the tank approximately 22 hours after the addition of sand

 

 

The tank appears to be much cloudier in the photo thank in real life. In real life, the tank is crystal clear. There is a white coating on everything in the tank. Is this normal when you get live sand? Is it from the bio-magnet that came in the bag of sand?

 

[Tired]

Yeah, you'll get all kinds of dustings and coatings. Turkey baste it off the rocks if you mind it.

[billygoat]

Looks great! I see that you've got some more rock in there as well. I think you're well on your way out of (or into - which is sort of the same thing) the Ugly Stage. 😁

[Luke78]

1 hour ago, billygoat said:

Looks great! I see that you've got some more rock in there as well. I think you're well on your way out of (or into - which is sort of the same thing) the Ugly Stage. 😁

I didn't get any more rock, I just re-arranged it to where it looks like I have more. Hopefully, I'm leaving the ugly stage. I also added just enough ammonia to get a reading (a little less than .25) and I will see if it cycles through by tomorrow morning. I would just like to see if my rock work can handle it before all of the organics in the sand start rotting.