The "Family 6", an adventure for all of us!

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Just recalibrated my refractometer using the 35 ppt solution, and wow, what a difference. Now I'll be doing water changes over the next few days to get the SG to where it needs to be. I suppose too low is better than too high, but gee whiz.

 

Depending on how that goes, we'll see when the fish can finally go in. No rush, but it seems like every time I tell DB she can have her fish now, something else happens. Oh well. 

[SaltyBuddha]

Yeah. I recalibrated mine and what I thought was 1.025 was actually 1.022. I think. How much was yours off by?

 

Still a little confused on how the calibration works though. My refractometer is a 20C/20C. The calibration solution I have is 35ppt at 25C. Did you just put the calibration fluid on, let it rest for 30 seconds, and calibrate to 35ppt?

[xAyanex]

I have the ATC Red Sea Refractometer for the temperature adjustment reason.

 

It never stays calibrated-I have to calibrate it every time I use it. It can be off by 3 or 4 ppt prior to calibration sometimes! And I barely move it! It's crazy how much of a different proper calibration makes.

[CharlesFoxtrot]

I also have an ATC refractometer, because getting the temp just right is a PITA. Mine was off by about the same as yours, SB, 1.025 was really 1.022 or so. Thanks for the heads up on the failing to stay calibrated, Alex. I've heard that you should calibrate monthly, but I'll check more often at least at first. 

 

I kind of suspect my ATO is a little too active, though, because it seems like every time I check the level in the DT the little plastic tab that marks the max fill level is a little further under the actual water level. We're talking about very small amounts, though, like 0.1 inch or less, so I'm not sure how much it might be diluting my SG.

 

I'm thinking about filing a little groove between the DT and the return chamber to keep the DT below that max fill level, but I'm not sure how or if that would work. What I'm thinking would happen is that if the DT exceeded that level, the extra water would flow through the groove and back into the return chamber, raising the water level in there enough to cut off the ATO. It might just be that the ATO isn't sensitive enough to pump just as much water as it needs, and it always puts in a little extra before the pump cuts off. I'm not ready to start making alterations yet, though, if anyone has insights into how the DT-to-return relationship works in this case. 

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Follow up on the ATO situation, I removed a pint of water from the DT this morning to lower the water level back to the max fill mark. Any higher and the flow from the return would have come up and over the rim of the tank, not good. ATO needed to be disconnected for today's WC anyway, so it'll stay off until I figure out a solution for it. 

 

So basically the ATO increased the total volume in the tank by 2% or so in the course of 72 hours. I'm trying to decide what to do about that. Option one is to just dip a pint of water out every 3 days to prevent an overflow. Option two is to make a groove or something to let DT water flow out and into the return if it's gotten too high. I'm going to do an experiment later today to see how much adding 1/6 pint of FW will lower the SG of 1 gallon of SW, which should give some idea of what needs to be done. 

 

By the way, @Christopher Marks, could you please move this thread over to tank journals? I think that's what it's grown into. Thanks! 

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Experiment complete. I used half a gallon of freshly mixed SW at 1.026, and added 1/12 pint (38.5 ml, if you were wondering ) of FW to it. Rather shockingly, this dropped the SG to 1.025 or so. Which means that I have to come up with a better plan than just removing water to prevent an overflow of the DT. Bummer. 

 

Looks like the next option is to create a mini overflow between the DT and the return chamber. I think that will stop the ATO from overfilling the DT, because any extra water should just go back into the return chamber, where the sensor is, and stop it from filling any more. From what I understand, the return chamber is where the evap happens, so it should keep the sensor from showing a top off is needed until 1. the overflow stops and 2. the return chamber drops to the right level. 

 

I'm using italics, though, which is bad when I'm contemplating a permanent-ish mod to the tank. Any suggestions would be welcomed. I'll probably do this during a water change today or tomorrow, thinking a drilled hole at the right place might do the trick. Hopefully I can avoid getting a bunch of shavings everywhere. 

[SaltyBuddha]

Do you have the sensor and the return line in the rear chamber? From what I'm reading, it seems like you have the sensor in the return pump chamber, but the ATO water line in the DT?

 

Both the sensor and the ATO filling line should be in the rear return pump chamber. If the filling line is in the DT, it will take a little time before the rear chambers actually see that additional water. This will cause the ATO to fill more than necessary because of the lag between when it starts filling and when it sees the rise in water.

[debbeach13]

Here is a stupid question. Why can't you just lower the sensor?

I misunderstood and thought the sensor was in the DT

[CharlesFoxtrot]

The sensor is in the return chamber, and the filling tube is in there with it. The marking for the max fill level is in the DT.

 

The reason why I'm not moving the sensor is because I think the water level will creep up slowly wherever the sensor is vertically placed, so moving it would just increase the time to overflow when the tank is over-topped. That may not be a good reason, but that's why I haven't tried to move it down (or up either, I guess).  What I think is happening is that the pump can only flick on and off so quickly, so it ends up putting a tiny bit more than really needed, and the tiny bits add up. This also may be flawed reasoning. 

 

Of course, I was never especially solid on the relationship between the DT and the different chambers in the first place. I just noticed that when the ATO was first turned on it filled until the max fill in the DT was reached. In retrospect, this may have been a coincidence. Anyway, however it is now is not sustainable, because it will drop my SG by .001 and overflow my tank every three days. 

 

Deb, I'm willing to try to move the sensor if you think that would help. My SG is out of whack anyways, and will be for a few more days whatever I do. I'm up to 1.022 after a WC now, and planning another WC for tomorrow. It'll take time to see if the move works, but this is SW, and I've got nothing but time. 

[debbeach13]

Hi Charley can I call you Charley? I must confess I know nothing about ATO's in all the years of owning a tank I have always just done it manually. For years I had a pc. of tape marking where the water level should be. I purchased the smart micro a few months ago and still have not gotten a reservoir so I can hook it up. My current tank has a glass lid because I have a firefish and the evaporation right now is maybe 1/2 cup a day. But I am going to give it a try soon. It just sounded like a simple thing to try but with the whole back chamber thing maybe not. I would not drill or cut the tank unless some one with an AIO tells you that will work.

[SaltyBuddha]

Weird. The display chamber level should only increase when the return pump is pushing out more water. 

 

If the ATO puts in more water, the only chamber level that should be affected is that return chamber. Same concept for evap. The DT should be independent of this. What does affect the DT level is the return pump. Putting in a larger pump will increase the level. If your overfill on the DT cannot handle this increase of volume, that is when you will see the DT level increase. You took off the spinsteam which could change the DT level, but you did that a while ago I think.

 

I would hold off on cutting the tank. You don't want water going from the DT straight to the return chamber. I'm installing the same ATO in my IM10 tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

[SaltyBuddha]

Could there be a light that is turning the ATO on when it is not needed?

[Christopher Marks]

@CharlesFoxtrot, the original return pump in your JBJ Nanocube 6 has been replaced with a 185 gph Sicce Syncra, right? The stock pump is only rated for about 100 gph, making me wonder if you're pushing the limits of the built in overflow? See the specs for the original pump: https://www.amazon.com/JBJ-Nano-Cube-Replacement-Pump/dp/B005EMI8YY

 

Your media basket might be another element to look at, is there any filter media that has become too restrictive?

 

How far down from the top of the tank rim is the ATO sensor placed? How far down is the ATO water line placed?

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Roger that, no cutting.  Not sure I know what you mean by a light turning it on, there's a small submersible LED strip in chamber 2 but nothing other than the sensor and the pump in the return chamber. The ATO is not on a timed socket. 

 

Yep, the spinner had been off for a while now, I don't think that's it. But the DT is absolutely getting fuller, and it wasn't doing it pre-ATO. Maybe I have some weird plumbing thing? 

 

Anyway, standing by. Hope your install goes well! 

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Christopher, you're correct about the 185 gph pump currently in there. The box is labeled as 166 gph for the stock pump, the manual says 140 or something. I think the LED nano cubes have a better stock pump than the older models. I haven't been using the little surface skimmer thingy it came with, either. 

 

Right now I have a 6.5 oz. Chemipure, a 100 ml Purigen, and some floss in the first chamber, all sitting on a little egg crate table that holds them up off the bottom about 5 - 6 inches.  There's a ball of chaeto in the second chamber and a little submersible LED light for it. 

 

Looking in the return chamber, there's about 1 to 1.5 inches between the top of the chamber 2/chamber 3 barrier and the return chamber waterline. The sensor is right at the waterline, maybe even a little below. I have a plexi barrier between the DT and the back chambers to prevent escapes, but it isn't watertight or even touching water. 

 

That's the works. I hope there's something glaring that I'm just not seeing. Thanks for your help, folks, it's great not to be alone and stumbling here. 

[SaltyBuddha]

Honestly, the only thing I can think of is that the sicce is the culprit and it was only noticed with the ATO. Id do a little experiment this weekend and switch back to the old return pump to see if that makes the same issue. You can also remove the filters to see if that helps at all as well. If you cut into anything, I would widen the overflow more to adjust for the change in flow.

 

Excited to watch your tank grow as it progresses. Should be starting my own build thread soon as well ☺ I've got a really different/weird aquascape that I haven't seen before. I'll let you know how the ATO install goes tomorrow. Also installing replacing my return pump with the since .5

 

What kind of fish have you and the family decided to put in the tank?

[steelwrap]

8 hours ago, Christopher Marks said:

@CharlesFoxtrot, the original return pump in your JBJ Nanocube 6 has been replaced with a 185 gph Sicce Syncra, right? The stock pump is only rated for about 100 gph, making me wonder if you're pushing the limits of the built in overflow? See the specs for the original pump: https://www.amazon.com/JBJ-Nano-Cube-Replacement-Pump/dp/B005EMI8YY

 

Your media basket might be another element to look at, is there any filter media that has become too restrictive?

 

How far down from the top of the tank rim is the ATO sensor placed? How far down is the ATO water line placed?

My 28 jbj has 2 pumps on a WaveMaker, when I have pumps alternating one at a time my level in the tank is lowered and my chambers run higher. When both pumps are running together the overflow can't keep up and the water in the display gets higher. So as Christopher said the new pump could possibly be raising the water level in your display

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Thanks for the idea about the pump being the problem. It's adjustable, so I'll try to dial it back gradually and see if that helps. I think I remember someone saying that the return chamber should be about .5 inches below the chamber barrier, so I'll aim for closer to that. Hopefully that will make the difference. I have a powerhead that I can put in to make up for the loss in flow. 

 

Welcome aboard, steelwrap! I appreciate your input about your pumps, it's helpful to know you're getting a similar effect. 

 

The plan right now is to add a little clown when things settle down. Going from lgreen's fish guide, and because they're DB's favorite since she was a little girl. That will be the only fish, I think. She'd really like a pair, but I told her I don't think that's workable long term. Maybe we'll go fishy shopping on Wednesday, if nothing else goes weird. 

[Weetabix7]

A Clownfish is a great first fish!!!

I know they are sometimes seen as such a stereotypical Reef Fish, but I have honestly always loved them. 

[CharlesFoxtrot]

So, for the record, the lowest adjustment on the Syncra 0.5 is not enough to maintain more than about 1/8 inch difference between chamber 2 and the return chamber. Consequently, I set it to the second lowest, there's now about an inch difference. The ATO is now back on, and I made sure to keep the sensor a little below the water line, so it didn't start immediately filling. The DT is slightly below the max fill mark, so I'll be able to tell if it rises.

 

Now we wait. Patience, grasshopper. 

[xAyanex]

I love the funny way clownfish swim. They're just soooo cute! Make sure when you get yours you post pictures! We love pictures!

[CharlesFoxtrot]

Pics will absolutely be forthcoming. Now that I have fish in my sights, I'm beginning to wonder when I can get some corals in there...   I'm liking the look of World Wide Corals' beginner pack. A little pricey, but I really like that it's not just a bunch of possibly boring "easy corals". My LFS has some nice frags, but they're huge. Getting something teeny for my tiny tank seems like a much better idea, also get to enjoy watching them grow out!

 

The five corals in the pack are: GSP, zoanthids, candy canes, a favia/favites, and a montipora. Apparently all suitable for tyros like me, if you believe the sales copy, corroborated by a LiveAquaria search. If the corals in the pack look half as good as their WYSIWYG stock, they'll be beautiful. I'm definitely tempted, but I have learned here to ASK FIRST! 

[Weetabix7]

Those all sound like good beginner ones except for the Montipora. 

Monti's are a great beginner SPS, but I'm personally hesitant to add them to new tanks. Interested to see what others think. 

Course, I'm also dipping a Monti to add to my Waterfall Pico right now, lol. 

[debbeach13]

It might be hard to get a perfect pack but that one looks pretty dam good. Are those corals that you have checked the requirements and think you can do it?

[CharlesFoxtrot]

It's hard to judge exactly without either a bunch of expensive meters or a lot of hard won experience, but I'm pretty confident I have the flow and lighting. I'm working under 6 LEDs, when I tried to convert lumens a while back they compared pretty favorably with more traditional fixtures like halides or CF. Again, no par meter (I can't afford the divorce), so it's a lot of guesswork.  Flow is easier, I have my return that was 185 but is now less, and I can probably put in a Koralia Nano if I need it without wrecking my temps. 

 

I'm a little concerned about the monti, like Weetie said, but sometimes it's nothing ventured nothing gained. Still, I'm interested to see how well a monti does, because I'm a huge Star Wars geek and would love to one day have a Jedi Mind Trick monti. 

 

But in general I would say that the research has looked pretty good. I'm kind of prone to fret, though, so that might play into my estimation of what's workable. But again, this is a great place to ask about this stuff, and I'm grateful for everyone's help through the process.