brandon429 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 just to keep up the brainstorming What about cleaning the whole tank at once until not a shred of green can be seen, the big weekend job since prelim tests look ok, the take apart and skip cycle cleaning. then hitting the water Of course that seems like a viable option to a guy who's entire running reef weighs ten pounds total (rip clean takes one hour) but I'm always angling towards not running tests on the whole tank or attacking non targets if possible. It's true some mag spiking may fix the whole thing, thousands of examples exist, but if you didn't get the full kill reaction pretty soon I hate to see the mg spiked higher and higher just to find the breakpoint. A test rock of the invader can be ran in a makeshift vessel to chart the concentrations required to sustain a kill, however I agree it's easier to just hit the main tank and see what happens. I'd choose a certain threshold of mg acceptable and stay under, I never bothered searching to know what they are. 1900-2000 tops? Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 todays params: Mag. 1290 alk. 8.1 didn't test my calcium Upped the TechM dose from10 to 15 ml. Everything looks the same. Plan to continue this route, as I feel even if I were to break it down and scrub everything clean as Brandon suggests, I would still miss some, as it would be impossible to get into every nook and cranny where the invader may be lying dormant. I also feel that this may open up another can of worms by disturbing the natural bacterial growth that I need. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Not that a whole tank cleaning is fun or will work to avoid all follow ups, but just to set boundaries for the decisive win. It seems the #1 most likely win move is off the table, just wondering which thread example removed it. The full tank cleaning has saved many a tank here, whether during moves or while in place http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445 The only reason to consider the true nature of our bac is to set the care boundaries that allow us to command the tank vs the other way around. Worth considering for the decisive win, our current testing has only shown direct action to be the strongest measure although for sure water dosing might work with no full tank effort. Will be easy to see in a week's time. Even if not ran here, the full tank cleaning all at once is saving tanks and can be back pocketed for the GHA challenge tanks/cyano most certainly readers may have etc. It's as much about finding and removing detritus and nutrient stores as it is destroying an invader, neat technique to consider. In any mode, aquarists must be able to predict bacteria or we cannot move tanks, set them up at conventions, do force cleanings etc. Link to comment
smiz Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 If memory serves it is the root structure that has to be removed in order for it to not just grow back. This is why most inverts can not get rid of it as they might eat it but do not go down to the root. If you rip it off and scrub it is very unlikely you will get all the roots in my mind. And at this point all you have done in pruned it so it can come back faster. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Do you have any examples of the cleaning causing a bac loss Not that a whole tank cleaning is fun or will work to avoid all follow ups, but just to set boundaries for the decisive win. It seems the #1 most likely win move is off the table, just wondering which thread example removed it. The full tank cleaning has saved many a tank here, whether during moves or while in place You're right of course Brandon, I don't have an example of bac loss, and I am by no means any kind of expert. In the past when I've done a total break down because of dinos I ended up with a diatom blume followed by cyano. whether it had anything to do with the clean cycle or not I don't know. I wasn't good at documenting things back then, or being consistent and patient with processes. There is so much of the bryopsis in between things like my trumpets which already are not doing well at all. I fear going in and trying to scrub in-between each head where the bryopsis is would irritate them too much and/or in able to get everything I would end up breaking them apart. Tear down is not off the table. If this doesn't work or I start seeing too much stress on any of my live stock I will do a break down. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 For that diatom follow up we squarely blame the unrinsed sandbed and how dare the early reef sages and authors start us down that path lol In that thread, we talk with chemist Randy HF about how silt from unrinsed beds may be the biggest diatom cause we have in the new reef tank. Most people will not truly clean a sandbed, so what seems like a thorough clean really might just be a nutrient redistribution. Your concerns are valid they are the concerns of one million tank keepers. The scariest part of full tank rip is the level of commitment. To leave any stone unturned pun yes is to not really clean any of it. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 For that diatom follow up we squarely blame the unrinsed sandbed and how dare the early reef sages and authors start us down that path lol In that thread, we talk with chemist Randy HF about how silt from unrinsed beds may be the biggest diatom cause we have in the new reef tank. Most people will not truly clean a sandbed, so what seems like a thorough clean really might just be a nutrient redistribution. Your concerns are valid they are the concerns of one million tank keepers. The scariest part of full tank rip is the level of commitment. To leave any stone unturned pun yes is to not really clean any of it. If it weren't for my sleeper goby and tube anemones I'd seriously consider go sandfree. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 and at least those guys are utility on top of entertainment, they aren't just sb detritus adders, they keep things kicked up for your filters to grab. functional helpers they are Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Todays params: Mag-1420, adding the 15ml instead of 10 really bumped it up. Could be residual build up too alk-8.4 cal-420 Bryops is still growing. found new sprouts today, already existing sprouts are longer, as well as regrowth where I cut the tup of the tube anem off. Must have also been seeded in the sand bed. have not seen any stress of inverts yet. Dosed another 15ml of techM. Link to comment
Hammerstone Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 You're fighting a good fight!! I'm following! Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Todays Params: Mag: Still 1420. So either yesterdays or todays reading is off, because after dosing 15ml of tech it should have gone up. Going to pick up a new test kit, as the one I have actually expired end of April. Probably still good, but I really need to be spot on for this. calcium 400 Alk. 8.4 Dosed my usual 5ml each calcium and alkalinity Bryopsis looks the same. Didn't notice any new growth though, so at least that's a step in the right direction. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Did not get a chance to tend to the tank yesterday. Todays Params: Mag-1320. I am concerned that my test kit is not accurate, as I can't understand what would cause the level to drop from 1420 in 2 days. hopefully I can get to a store today and pick up a new one. Still, I dosed a full 20ml of tech M today. On a good note, I think some of the bryo looks like it might be thinning a little bit. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Bought a new red sea magnesium test kit level at 1320, which I find really odd considering I dosed 20 ML of Tech M several hours ago. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Being somewhat perplexed by my erratic mag readings, I decided maybe a closer inspection of my Tech M bottle was at hand. Low and behold...Expiration 11/2015. Ugh! How could I be so careless (i.e. STUPID!)? Hopefully no harm has occurred. Planning a large water change tomorrow and starting fresh. Link to comment
Hammerstone Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 That sucks iam sorry!!! I'd just guess that maybe it might be less potent rather than hurting your tank. Link to comment
Astinus Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Being somewhat perplexed by my erratic mag readings, I decided maybe a closer inspection of my Tech M bottle was at hand. Low and behold...Expiration 11/2015. Ugh! How could I be so careless (i.e. STUPID!)? Hopefully no harm has occurred. Planning a large water change tomorrow and starting fresh. Glad u caught that At least u had the wherewithal to suspect ur Tech M. So...ur not as "stupid" as u said. lol. Link to comment
Hammerstone Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Oh and I skipped over calling yourself stupid, don't. I always forget to check expiration dates. Did you recently buy it? If it was expired on the shelf that is their responsibility, not yours. They should let you trade it in for a new one. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Signs of distress Bryopsis dying by Penny, on FlickrBryopsis dying by Penny, on FlickrBryopsis dying by Penny, on Flickr Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Current Params: Alk has dropped to 7.8 Calcium 390 mag. 1570 I'm finding the biggest obstacle to this treatment is keeping alkalinity stable. I'm finding that I need to dose alkalinity almost every other day to keep it up around 8. With the magnesium up to 1570 and bryopsis showing signs of decline, I think I am going to hold the level here rather than get it up to 2000 as others have recommended. I'm not exactly sure what the dose should be to hold it here. Not dosing tonight. will test again in the morning and try to figure out my absorption rate and dose accordingly. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Biomass addition is shifting to neutral then negative per pics, it's bleaching a careful balance with no collateral losses. Nice combo of rasp where possible and water detailing which taken slowly does seem like it's working. We use this in tank fix thread pics are looking good Can you update us on your very first test rock set! How did rasp vs fluid only behave after a month I cannot wait to see em if you have pics on those sections. Tracking the test rocks long term is what I hope to point out for our peroxide thread watching here from R2R. It's not one off algae free we hope for, it's any distinction of growth rates between rasped and non rasped. I want to learn holdfast science and this is it unfolding. Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 bryopsis continues to die away with tech M levels being around 1590. Plan to start small water changes daily to start bring those mag levels back down to around 1290-1320. The picture below shows the area that I originally treated by rasping the heck out of it. bryopsis update by Penny, on Flickr As you can see, it remains bryopsis free and coraline has begun to grow over it. The other two areas, one treated with just peroxide and one rasped and then treated with peroxide also remain bryopsis free. It's hard to know if they remain clean because of the original treatment, or in combination of Tech M. But, it does seem to me, that if you can get to the areas with bryopsis, then deep scraping will work and would be the least stressful on the tank. It's getting to the nooks and crannies and in-between coral polyps that create the challenge Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Best multi pronged approach to bry I've seen Link to comment
Pjanssen Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Best multi pronged approach to bry I've seen Wow! Thanks. And thanks for pushing me to do it, professor Link to comment
brandon429 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The profs who gave me C's w claim no tenure! We are algae diggers lol and I love to see it go Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.