Why is it so expensive :(

[jolee0722]

 

 

 

 

Ok thanks, I'll look at the pumps and the reefbreeder. I was also leaning toward the 70. One question though, does the light give a blue shimmer effect like the Kessil?

 

Thanks, seems like most people recommend the reefbreeder. Also having a RODI system would make everything a lot easier. I live in NJ btw.

 

Where in NJ? I happen to be a teen as well who lives in NJ. Got some extra pukani rock from BRS. And Yeah it will shimmer but as CrazyEyes said nothing like the kessil. I would say go with the reefbreeder and then once you save up some money you can pick up a kessil.

[Gooburz]

 

 

 

 

Ok thanks, I'll look at the pumps and the reefbreeder. I was also leaning toward the 70. One question though, does the light give a blue shimmer effect like the Kessil?

 

Thanks, seems like most people recommend the reefbreeder. Also having a RODI system would make everything a lot easier. I live in NJ btw.

 

 

Reef breeders will give you a shimmer effect and give amazing coloring to the tank plus you have independent channels on your blues and whites so you can increase the color of each, have sunrise/sunset features and moonlighting. The Reefbreeders really are a great fixture all around. Yes Kessils are proven to be an awesome light and they do have amazing customer service but I just can't see spending that kind of money on them especially when you can't controll them unless you buy another $100 controller.

 

I started out with a 20L and loved it, you can see the link on the bottom to my thread along with my 40 Breeder pics. I used an A/C 70 on mine and I didn't even run the media basket. I just put filter floss in it and charcoal on top of the floss and it works just fine so that can save you a few more bucks there too.

 

Also some people mentioned about Black Friday/Cyber Monday, I'd wait till then and see what specials they will have available. You can wind up saving yourself even more money on things as well. PLUS from now till then you can keep readin up on here and looking at different builds to get even more ideas so when the time comes you'll be set and ready to go!

 

As far as the stand goes I'd still look at building your own, save more money and can make it look way better than anything store bought.

[lkoechle]

I would go for the ac 70 and a 20L, the other is super sleek, but you will be limited to what you can put (even more so than already) with a 20L you can keep a clown pair and a six line and maybe a small watchman goby and pistol shrimp.

 

I would go with the ro/di and keep a look out for used lights. AI SOL super blue will give that shimmer effect. I think most LEDs will. So just keep your eye out and be flexible, who cares if its a kessil or ai if itsused, cheap, and delivers on performance? I would look into a couple par bulbs as well as lighting options. Once you have the tank set up, you will still have at least month from there before you're ready for livestock. And its coral that needs the light not fish, si you can take your time on deal hunting.

[CrazyEyes]

You can control kessils right on the light. The 160 and 360 have a color temp knob and an intensity knob, whereas the 350 has a white and blue control.

[Gooburz]

You can control kessils right on the light. The 160 and 360 have a color temp knob and an intensity knob, whereas the 350 has a white and blue control.

 

Yes I know that you can turn the knobs and adjust them but you can't program them with on and off or sunrise/sunset modes unless you buy their $100 controler and I just don't like that personally.

[shawnd08]

By no means am i trying to discourage or tell you it cannot be done. I myself am new to the hobby.

 

if you buy cheaper and or used equipment and save $500 dollars there you will quickly be back at $1000+ when you start stocking with fish,corals,inverts, and so on. Then consider your maintenance cost such as RO, media, and food. It will add up quickly. I have a 3.7 gallong reef and a 15 gallon and I can tell you that the 3.7 after 6 months of running is around $500 and that's fairly cheap equipment. I tried saving money on RO by getting it from a lfs at .50 a gallon..... that was a mistake. It was loaded with phosphate that cause a gha bloom. Once I stared using the 1.00 per gallon RO at another store everything was back to normal. For .50 the filters are probably rarely changed and I could have lost everything in my tank.

 

My point is that we all have money and time invested in our tanks and when you start taking shortcuts or try to save money you end up taking a risk. I would say if you can't afford to do it right then you should wait and save up for a time when you can.

[FlowerMama]

If you're gonna do a $1 per gallon at Petco, don't waste time on a 10 or 20g, go $30 more for a 40. The light you buy for a 20 can be used for a 40. if you don't mind less light on the side which is fine for mushrooms & softies. You can prevent 2 upgrades and save money if you just go with a 40, but that also depends on space for you. But that is certainly the cheapest way to go for an aquarium alone.

[Pancetta]

There are a lot of good advice in this thread. I will throw out one more idea.

 

Go to a LFS that is well stocked with (hopefully) most of the equipment you want and see what sort of

deal they will give you if you buy the entire setup from them.

 

I have not done this myself buck have met people who have and they got great deals. Especially around the holidays.

 

Good luck,

David

[danistarr]

I'm young too (22 and have to save my tips for fish stuff) starting a 20 gallon long reef myself, so thought I would chime in to the already great advice given

 

I just got a 20 gallon long from PETCO (I was stupid and didn't wait til the $1 per gallon sale, so I spent $40 on it). I also purchased a stand for $109 (now on sale for $83, took 5 hours to assemble), as I don't have any furniture strong enough for an aquarium, nor the space to try to make my own. If I lived back home, I would of built one with my dad. We built a bug cage that he could stand on and it wouldn't budge. It would be a fun project to do with your parents if they like building things. It'd be a lot cheaper, and a heck of a lot sturdier then most of them on the market.

 

I recently got a hydor koralia 425 power head ($25), as that's what everyone recommended it seemed when I researched it before. This is the first time I've seen the rw4 mentioned. I might get one of those too now, and return my 425.

 

For rock, I got 30lbs from reefcleaners for $60. I'm going all dry, I don't want to spend extra money or time to eradicate hitchhiker pests. I would feel that only 15-20lbs wouldn't be enough for a 20 gallon, but I wanted a fairly large rock scape. If you want more open caves or a shallower/narrower scape, you could get by with less easily though.

 

Definitely look on craigslist though, I've seen ads for excellent quality purple coraline covered live rock at only $1.75 /lb, along with other ads that were selling dry and live for $2-$4/lb. I live in the one of the most expensive cities in the US too.

 

As for the light, are you hanging it, or clipping it on the tank? That will limit your choices somewhat. If you are clipping, it seems that rimless tanks are hard to clip things on too.

 

I wanted the kessil at first too, as I was mesmerized by the shimmer when I saw it in a video. However, if you google "kessil too much shimmer" lots of things pop up. A lot of people think it's too much shimmer, and almost strobey.

 

I've been recommended two lights so far. First light Arctic Oceanrevive T427 LED http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/goods.php?id=21

$199 from the website, $175 brand new on ebay. Seems to have good shimmer from this youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlkNHGP0dE The shimmer effect is also effected by the water surface movement as well.

 

Other is the galaxyhydro wifi programmable LED http://www.amazon.com/Galaxyhydro-Manual-Control-Dimmable-Aquarium/dp/B00NNDHVCG/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441178047&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=165W+WiFi+programmable

Super high tech and fancy, with every setting imaginable for only $145. Isn't able to clip on though, so must be hung.

 

Here's a youtube vid on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzBKkh7-dLE

 

There's also the reef breeders one as well of course. This one is on sale, and seems really nice. https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/superlux/

 

As for the AC filter, what is your reasoning for wanting one? Add media space? Hide heater? I want one to hide my heater, and to provide a place for carbon and other media if I ever want to use it, like purigen and what not.

 

However, I've discovered that there are only a couple of heaters that will fit in an AC50 (tetra preset temp heater, and a cobalt one that has a reputation for exploding), and only a 50watt hydor heater if you go the AC70 route with an Intank media basket.

 

If you want a 100 watt heater, then the only InTank media basket that will fit one is the AC110 basket for $89. Even then, it seems the hydor heater is the only one that will fit it seems.

 

At this point, it seems that it would be far more efficient and cost effective to just get a sump if you have the option. Or ditch the InTank media basket, and just put the heater in length wise in the AC70. Perhaps with a heater guard? Not sure if it's necessary, I just worry a lot about things going bad.

 

You also might want to think about a screen lid. A nice thing about rimmed tanks is that you can make an "invisible" lid. http://reeftools.com/nn/how-to-build-a-screen-top-for-your-tank/

 

Another thought, have you thought about what fish you want? A 20 gallon long will limit your fish choices far more than a 40 gallon would. You don't want to purchase a 20 gallon long and get it all set up to discover that you really want a certain fish that is too large/active for a 20 gallon long tank.

 

Even if your parents are iffy on used equipment, there is nothing wrong with getting a used tank typically. You could easily find a cheap 40 breeder, probably drilled with a sump, on CL.

 

Also, the suggestion about going to a good LFS and trying to get a good package deal is a great suggestion if your parents are stickler for the new stuff. One by me would of given me 25% off of everything, and thrown in a bunch of free stuff too if I went that route.

 

So in short, to answer your questions, definitely go with the 20 long over a 12 gallon. The Mr. Aqua 12 gal tank while really neat looking, will lose it's appeal when it comes to stocking I bet. Even though it's 36" long, it's only 8.3" wide and 9.4" tall. You won't be able to have any tall corals, and be pretty limited on fish. Not too mention, if you ever want a screen lid to prevent jumpers from becoming carpet fish, it will be hard to hide.

 

And the AC70 or AC110 over an AC50.

 

EDIT: Oh, and an RODI system over a kessil. For light, go with a reef breeders, or possibly one of the two I suggested. All LEDs will have some degree of shimmer.

I'd think long and hard about what you want to keep in the tank, such as fish, corals, inverts, etc. and then base your tank off of building it for what works for them, rather than the other way around.

Hope this helps!

[nanoreefer15]

Where in NJ? I happen to be a teen as well who lives in NJ. Got some extra pukani rock from BRS. And Yeah it will shimmer but as CrazyEyes said nothing like the kessil. I would say go with the reefbreeder and then once you save up some money you can pick up a kessil.

 

I live in the Essex County area. Thanks for your advice about the lights and your offer about the rocks. Is the pukani dry rock btw?

 

Reef breeders will give you a shimmer effect and give amazing coloring to the tank plus you have independent channels on your blues and whites so you can increase the color of each, have sunrise/sunset features and moonlighting. The Reefbreeders really are a great fixture all around. Yes Kessils are proven to be an awesome light and they do have amazing customer service but I just can't see spending that kind of money on them especially when you can't controll them unless you buy another $100 controller.

 

I started out with a 20L and loved it, you can see the link on the bottom to my thread along with my 40 Breeder pics. I used an A/C 70 on mine and I didn't even run the media basket. I just put filter floss in it and charcoal on top of the floss and it works just fine so that can save you a few more bucks there too.

 

Also some people mentioned about Black Friday/Cyber Monday, I'd wait till then and see what specials they will have available. You can wind up saving yourself even more money on things as well. PLUS from now till then you can keep readin up on here and looking at different builds to get even more ideas so when the time comes you'll be set and ready to go!

 

As far as the stand goes I'd still look at building your own, save more money and can make it look way better than anything store bought.

 

How much more complicated was your 40g to run/expensive compared to your 20g? Thanks!

By no means am i trying to discourage or tell you it cannot be done. I myself am new to the hobby.

 

if you buy cheaper and or used equipment and save $500 dollars there you will quickly be back at $1000+ when you start stocking with fish,corals,inverts, and so on. Then consider your maintenance cost such as RO, media, and food. It will add up quickly. I have a 3.7 gallong reef and a 15 gallon and I can tell you that the 3.7 after 6 months of running is around $500 and that's fairly cheap equipment. I tried saving money on RO by getting it from a lfs at .50 a gallon..... that was a mistake. It was loaded with phosphate that cause a gha bloom. Once I stared using the 1.00 per gallon RO at another store everything was back to normal. For .50 the filters are probably rarely changed and I could have lost everything in my tank.

 

My point is that we all have money and time invested in our tanks and when you start taking shortcuts or try to save money you end up taking a risk. I would say if you can't afford to do it right then you should wait and save up for a time when you can.

I know your point here wasn't to discourage me and instead to show me that cheaply run tanks end up being expensive anyway, but it still is very discouraging to hear this (no hard feelings, I understand what you mean). How expensive would you expect my 20L to be over time? And do the costs slowly accumulate over a large period of time to where it's manageable (like $700 in six months) or does it rapidly increase? Thanks for your time!

 

If you're gonna do a $1 per gallon at Petco, don't waste time on a 10 or 20g, go $30 more for a 40. The light you buy for a 20 can be used for a 40. if you don't mind less light on the side which is fine for mushrooms & softies. You can prevent 2 upgrades and save money if you just go with a 40, but that also depends on space for you. But that is certainly the cheapest way to go for an aquarium alone.

Thanks for your advice. At this point I'm not sure whether I want to go with a larger tank or a nano in the long run. A 40g tank seems to advanced/complicated overwhelming to me to run, like necessitating the build of a sump, much more coral to buy to cover such a large footprint, larger water changes, more salt, etc.). Is this true? I'm thinking that starting with a 20L would be best because it is nano sized and seems much easier to manage to me while still providing enjoyment by having a decent selection of fish, coral, and less expense. If I do get a feel of what I like, such as bigger tanks, smaller tanks, etc. later on, I could just use the 20L as a sump for a bigger tank anyway. Plus the 20L tank itself is cheap anyway. Do you personally think running a 40g would be too overwhelming/expensive for a beginner?

 

I'm young too (22 and have to save my tips for fish stuff) starting a 20 gallon long reef myself, so thought I would chime in to the already great advice given

 

I just got a 20 gallon long from PETCO (I was stupid and didn't wait til the $1 per gallon sale, so I spent $40 on it). I also purchased a stand for $109 (now on sale for $83, took 5 hours to assemble), as I don't have any furniture strong enough for an aquarium, nor the space to try to make my own. If I lived back home, I would of built one with my dad. We built a bug cage that he could stand on and it wouldn't budge. It would be a fun project to do with your parents if they like building things. It'd be a lot cheaper, and a heck of a lot sturdier then most of them on the market.

 

I recently got a hydor koralia 425 power head ($25), as that's what everyone recommended it seemed when I researched it before. This is the first time I've seen the rw4 mentioned. I might get one of those too now, and return my 425.

 

For rock, I got 30lbs from reefcleaners for $60. I'm going all dry, I don't want to spend extra money or time to eradicate hitchhiker pests. I would feel that only 15-20lbs wouldn't be enough for a 20 gallon, but I wanted a fairly large rock scape. If you want more open caves or a shallower/narrower scape, you could get by with less easily though.

 

Definitely look on craigslist though, I've seen ads for excellent quality purple coraline covered live rock at only $1.75 /lb, along with other ads that were selling dry and live for $2-$4/lb. I live in the one of the most expensive cities in the US too.

 

As for the light, are you hanging it, or clipping it on the tank? That will limit your choices somewhat. If you are clipping, it seems that rimless tanks are hard to clip things on too.

 

I wanted the kessil at first too, as I was mesmerized by the shimmer when I saw it in a video. However, if you google "kessil too much shimmer" lots of things pop up. A lot of people think it's too much shimmer, and almost strobey.

 

I've been recommended two lights so far. First light Arctic Oceanrevive T427 LED http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/goods.php?id=21

$199 from the website, $175 brand new on ebay. Seems to have good shimmer from this youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlkNHGP0dE The shimmer effect is also effected by the water surface movement as well.

 

Other is the galaxyhydro wifi programmable LED http://www.amazon.com/Galaxyhydro-Manual-Control-Dimmable-Aquarium/dp/B00NNDHVCG/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441178047&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=165W+WiFi+programmable

Super high tech and fancy, with every setting imaginable for only $145. Isn't able to clip on though, so must be hung.

 

Here's a youtube vid on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzBKkh7-dLE

 

There's also the reef breeders one as well of course. This one is on sale, and seems really nice. https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/superlux/

 

As for the AC filter, what is your reasoning for wanting one? Add media space? Hide heater? I want one to hide my heater, and to provide a place for carbon and other media if I ever want to use it, like purigen and what not.

 

However, I've discovered that there are only a couple of heaters that will fit in an AC50 (tetra preset temp heater, and a cobalt one that has a reputation for exploding), and only a 50watt hydor heater if you go the AC70 route with an Intank media basket.

 

If you want a 100 watt heater, then the only InTank media basket that will fit one is the AC110 basket for $89. Even then, it seems the hydor heater is the only one that will fit it seems.

 

At this point, it seems that it would be far more efficient and cost effective to just get a sump if you have the option. Or ditch the InTank media basket, and just put the heater in length wise in the AC70. Perhaps with a heater guard? Not sure if it's necessary, I just worry a lot about things going bad.

 

You also might want to think about a screen lid. A nice thing about rimmed tanks is that you can make an "invisible" lid. http://reeftools.com/nn/how-to-build-a-screen-top-for-your-tank/

 

Another thought, have you thought about what fish you want? A 20 gallon long will limit your fish choices far more than a 40 gallon would. You don't want to purchase a 20 gallon long and get it all set up to discover that you really want a certain fish that is too large/active for a 20 gallon long tank.

 

Even if your parents are iffy on used equipment, there is nothing wrong with getting a used tank typically. You could easily find a cheap 40 breeder, probably drilled with a sump, on CL.

 

Also, the suggestion about going to a good LFS and trying to get a good package deal is a great suggestion if your parents are stickler for the new stuff. One by me would of given me 25% off of everything, and thrown in a bunch of free stuff too if I went that route.

 

So in short, to answer your questions, definitely go with the 20 long over a 12 gallon. The Mr. Aqua 12 gal tank while really neat looking, will lose it's appeal when it comes to stocking I bet. Even though it's 36" long, it's only 8.3" wide and 9.4" tall. You won't be able to have any tall corals, and be pretty limited on fish. Not too mention, if you ever want a screen lid to prevent jumpers from becoming carpet fish, it will be hard to hide.

 

And the AC70 or AC110 over an AC50.

 

EDIT: Oh, and an RODI system over a kessil. For light, go with a reef breeders, or possibly one of the two I suggested. All LEDs will have some degree of shimmer.

 

I'd think long and hard about what you want to keep in the tank, such as fish, corals, inverts, etc. and then base your tank off of building it for what works for them, rather than the other way around.

Hope this helps!

Wow, I can't thank you enough for all of your help! A lot of great info here. I do like the idea of a rocky scape so I will take your advice and try to get 30lbs of dry. I'll try to see if anyone could spare me a few pieces of live rock or dry rock here leftover, and then buy however more that I need.

 

I actually really like the over-shimmer of the Kessil and I think it gives a tank an overall stunning and mysterious look. The thing I'm worried about with the Kessil is the coverage on a 20L. Do you think it would be fine to have the sides of the 20L be less bright and just put lower light corals there? I looked at your suggestions too and the galaxhydro and oceanrevive look good, but the reefbreeders doesn't look like it would fit a 20L (it says the max mounting length is 24").

 

The reason for the AC was because several members here recommended it as a cheap and simple method of filtering a nano for a beginner. I also would rather build a sump later when I gain more experience and the AC would take the place of it for now while I'm deciding what to do as I gain experience. I don't really mind the visibility of the heater anyway so the main purpose of the AC is filtration with media baskets.

 

Thanks for the link about the screen lid

 

To me a 40g seems to overwhelming for me to work with. Wouldn't I need a sump, more complex filtration, bigger water changes, more corals to fill the space, etc.? I was thinking a 20L because of its nano size, and if I'm interested in getting a bigger tank in the future I'll just use it as a sump. The fish I like are ocellaris clownfish, royal grammas, clown gobies, tailspot blenny, firefish, and other little nano fish. Probably wouldn't need a 40g anyway for something like 1 clownfish, 1 royal gramma, 1 tailspot blenny and 1 clown goby anyway right? So basically a small nano-style tank setup.

 

What do you think? Thanks again for your help! Also, did you get your tank set up yet? How expensive do you think it'll turn out to be in the long run (little worried about that)?

[Neebles]

if I had to do it all over, my first tank would have been a 40b. Awesome dimensions. You don't HAVE to sump anything. The larger the water volume, the more stable the parameters. Yes it requires slightly bigger equipment and water changes but nothing that should scare you off.

[CrazyEyes]

I'm sure a kessil will give you enough light to be able to keep lower light corals on the sides.

[jolee0722]

 

I live in the Essex County area. Thanks for your advice about the lights and your offer about the rocks. Is the pukani dry rock btw?

What do you mean btw? Too bad, I'm up in Bergen County. If you live nearby to Clifton, there's a nice aquarium store there called Absolutely Fish. It's a bit on the expensive side, but it will give you the oppurtunity to see some nice setups and talk to people who know aquariums.

Also, this is on sale here on the forum and the guy is in Clifton NJ. It's a great deal and has a sump and is similar to a mr. aqua 12 but bigger at 22 gallons. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/364883-fs-mraqua-22-gallon-exquisite-setup/

[FlowerMama]

I started with an 8 gallon then quickly started a 34 and a 20g within the same year. My thought is same light over the 20 versus a 40 saves you money too. I'm not sumping my 40. Going to have many macros and make it look like Gertie's tank. I'll put a hang over back skimmer and that's it. So i'm choosing to keep it on the simpler side.

[Gooburz]

It's a little bit more expense when it comes to salt but that's about it, I still feed the same and regular what not things. The biggest problem you will face is the start up cost, that is expensive. I'm telling you get on craigslist and look for live rock in your area or dry rock, you'll find it and it's always way cheaper than online or at LFS.

 

If you go the 40 Breeder route:

Tank - $40 petco dollar per gallon sale

Reefbreeders Photon 32" $449 or you could do the 24" for 329 and it WILL light up the entire tank, it does on mine.

A/C 70 - $40 on Amazon or cheaper

Pump - 2 pumps pick your brand around $35 each on Amazon

Heater - $30

Sand 40lbs - $50

Rock - you'd be fine with 30-40lbs, at $3 a LB which is the norm on craigslist in my area your looking around $100

Salt - $35 for 55 gallon mix (Red Sea Coral Pro price)

Test kit - figure about $30 for a basic kit

 

Right now that's at about $840 and that is minus buying a RO/DI unit, no livestock, no stand. You could build a stand for $100 or less dpending on what tools you have or ones you'd need to borrow or rent form Lowes/Home Depot. Livestock well that's all on you when it comes to fish and I'd wait several months before you plung into corals to establish the tank or you're gonna get dead corals.

 

If you haven't yet check out my tank build thread in my sig block, I love the 40 Breeder tank but soon it will be a Deep Blue 80 Breeder after I get home from this deployment.

[shawnd08]

I know your point here wasn't to discourage me and instead to show me that cheaply run tanks end up being expensive anyway, but it still is very discouraging to hear this (no hard feelings, I understand what you mean). How expensive would you expect my 20L to be over time? And do the costs slowly accumulate over a large period of time to where it's manageable (like $700 in six months) or does it rapidly increase? Thanks for your time!

 

 

I appreciate you not taking my comment the wrong way, my intention are not to turn you away from starting a tank and if they seem that way I apologize. Once you are up and running you will spend a bit on corals, fish, inverts, and so on. I personally added alot of coral over a short period of time, you however could over a years time add the same amount and spend a small amount each month rather than all at once. Another thing to consider is equipment can malfunction or fail and with a tank running you can't afford to run the tank until you have moeny to buy a new heater or circulation pump, this can be replaced fairly cheap but it does add to the total. There's a chance the equipment may never fail but it's better to have some money put aside for an emergency if that ever did happen. People will tell you smaller tanks are harder but I do not agree with that. All I do for my 3.7 gallon is change 1 gallon every week. Feed the tank everyother day and top it off when needed. Periodically intake clean the hob refuge and that's it. After the first month I stopped testing the parameters. If somethings off the coral,fish, and inverts will let me know.the same goes for my 15 gallon. Just a 3-4 gallon WC weekly is the difference. Another thing you may encounter is the cheaper priced equipment you bought to save money may not perform how you would like and you may end up upgrading which will cost more in the long run. For my 15 I am barrowing a current satellite orbit while a put money aside to order a nanobox duo, personally I rather spend my hard earned money supporting a company in the US working as hard as I do to turn out a great product with the best customer service instead of sending my money to China to support their country. Anyways,

I believe you could spread the cost out over a longer period of time and make it more manageable. Unless you have poor self control like I do then you will be buying coral every week.

 

I look forward to seeing a build thread so we can follow along and watch your tank grow.

[ajmckay]

 

I believe you quoted this meme in my thread while I was still building it... But you know, you were still drooling the whole time

Haha yes I did! Original meme btw!

 

But your tank was baller - an example to follow for starting a new tank with all the stuff you want. Fir this thread though - I think the consensus is to keep it simple since it's a first tank.

 

Also I'm still blown away at how long this thread is... Most debates on tank cost don't get nearly this involved because there are so many other threads on the exact same topic - really there are.

That being said, however, kudos to you for keeping it going and trying to understand the opinions given to you.

 

I like that the conversation is shifting toward the longer term. It really is true that you can spend nearly as much stocking a tank as you did buying all the equipment. It's also true that the larger the tank the more you will need to buy. A small zoa frag that costs $30 is obvious in a 20g tank but could seem insignificant in a 40 until it grows out in 6 months to a year.

 

Also I'm going through exactly what Shaun is saying... The impeller head on my skimmer broke so I ordered a new one - but when I put the new impeller head on the pump suddenly makes a really loud noise. So I'm skimmerless until I decide if I want to drop $200-300 on a new skimmer or $75 for a new pump. While the pump alone is cheaper there are more efficient skimmers on the market now that I could take advantage of since mine is a few years old.

 

Finally lets not forget the unexpected costs. Say your parents bless your equipment list and you order it. But then once you actually get it set up you realize you would rather have something else or maybe another circulation pump, etc... Maybe you decide you want to keep some macroalgaes so you get different sand or something... It happens for sure and you'll want some discretionary funds to cover things like that. Note that if everything works out perfectly it can go towards livestock too.

 

Oh, and if you haven't already put an ATO on your list unless you never go on vacation or you have an extremely reliable person who can come by and top off when you're not around for a few days.

 

Holy Sh!t... I just tallied up my tank cost for a 40b - this is over about 4 years.

Setup: $1,100 plus about $300 of equipment coming from my prior tank but sold that tank for like $200

Misc/random stuff: $400

Livestock $350 (but there's not a lot!)

Maintenance $15/month in food and salt.

 

So yeah I'm into it for close to $2K by now... Granted I went all custom with my stand, DIY led light, and plumbing, oh and light hanging arm was sort of expensive too.

[danistarr]

 

Oh suresys, I'm happy to help! I know it can all seem very overwhelming at first. I got a 55 gallon when I was 18 with plans to do a saltwater FOWLR tank, and got so intimated by everything that I switched to a freshwater tank in the end. It's only now, nearly 5 years later, that I feel confident enough to start a reef tank.

 

You are correct that the reef breeders fixture I linked can't be mounted to a 20 long, but if you have the ability to hang it, it should work I'd imagine.

 

As for the kessil for the 20 gallon long, I wasn't sure myself, so I googled it. Found this link http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-many-kessil-a150-leds-do-you-recommend-for-a-20-gallon-long.143993/

 

It seems that one would work okay, as long as you are going mainly softie/LPS route. Have you mentioned what corals you want, I don't think I recall reading it anywhere? I might of missed it though if you did. You would just have to place your corals accordingly.

 

If your heart is set on a kessil, then I would just save up and wait for one to be on sale or a lightly used one on CL or from someone selling theirs on a fish forum. If you truly feel that you want to be in this hobby for awhile, then it'll save you money in the long run, versus getting a cheaper LED and then getting the kessil later. Might as well just wait a bit and go with the kessil. You have seen it in person though, right? If you haven't I would try to before getting one.

 

You don't "need" a sump, nor do you need a filter for a reef. Even in a large tank, a sump isn't a necessity. All extra stuff, designed to make your life easier/more complicated depending on how you view it. Technically, all you need are 1-3 powerheads/wavemakers, and an adequate amount of rock. The rock provides the filtration, it is where all the ammonia/nitrite breaking down bacteria live.

 

In smaller tanks around 20 gallons, you don't need a skimmer. Even in a 40 gallon, as long as you aren't heavily stocked, a skimmer isn't necessary. You just have to do more frequent water changes.

 

If you do go the AC filter route, you have to make sure you take it apart quite frequently (like once a week), and clean it out thoroughly so it doesn't become a nitrate factory. Just something to think about. They do make great vessels for filter media though (again, not necessary, but certainly can be helpful).

 

This is how I've broken down the fancy equipment in my head, perhaps it'll help you:

~Sump: used to add extra water volume, provide a place for a refugium for pod breeding for dragonets, hide equipment (heaters, skimmers, ATO, etc.)

~Skimmer: used to remove bad stuff out of water immediately (versus a filter, which only removes it out of main tank, where it can still affect water quality), very beneficial on heavily stocked tanks, tanks with large predator fish, or if you want to help reduce frequency of water changes. Basically useless on nano tanks, where regular water changes will do about the same thing

~ATO (auto top off): used to help keep water stable, you don't have to worry about water evaporation affecting parameters, especially when gone on vacation. You can just do daily/weekly top offs yourself though instead

~AC and other power filters: used to provide a place to house media (such as stuff used to reduce phosphates, or carbon), can hide heater/skimmer, and be modified into a small fuge if pods are desired. Not used as a "true" filter really, at least not like in freshwater, as you have the live rock for that.

 

As for a 20 long vs 40 breeder, as said above, the only difference in cost is mainly the salt and water used for water changes and top offs, and initially, about double for the rock and sand if you buy it brand new.

 

As for corals, you never want to stock you tank to the brim with corals from the getgo, as over time, they will grow to fill in your tank. You have to give them space to grow. If you are concerned about an empty tank look, you can always get xenia and green star polyps. It will cover your tank in no time, as they spread like a plague or wildfire!

 

As for your stocking ideas, PHEW all fish that can happily live in a 20 gallon long! Kudos on your research!

 

In a 20 gallon long, you are limited to around 2-3 fish. Maybe 4 if you want to push it/have tiny nano fish.

 

In a 40 gallon, you can have around 4-6 fish comfortably (depending on whether they are nano fish or not).

 

While it will cost a little more in salt and water if you don't get an RODI unit, the 40 gallon offers you more protection against the water parameters fluctuating given you have double the volume.

 

I would of happily went with a 40 breeder if I could of, but my apartment doesn't allow larger tanks.

 

It really is whatever you feel better with. With less water volume, you will have less room for error.

 

Either way, all you NEED to get a tank up and cycling is:

-Tank

-Light

-Powerheads (w/ pump if you get a wavemaker like a jeboa one, the hydor koralia nano doesn't need a pump from the looks of mine)

-Heater

-Sand (unless you want to go bare bottom)

-Rock (dry, live, or a mix)

-Water

-Salt

-API Saltwater test kit

-Refractometer w/ calibration fluid (everyone I talk to says to just spring for the refractometer, as you will want one in the long run. It's not a heck of a lot more than the swing arm hydrometers anyways. Store by me sells them as a kit for $35)

-Thermometer

-*Lid* I think it is necessary, as any fish can get startled and jump. I'd rather have the piece of mind then worry about it.

~Frozen shrimp or pure ammonia to start cycle

 

No skimmer, fuge, sump, or any other bells and whistles is required.

 

As for my tank, so far all I have is

~Tank w/ stand= $147.57

~30lbs dry rock from reefcleaners=$60

~Hydor Koralia Nano 425 power head=$29

 

So I've spent $236.57.

 

I still have to get:

~Sand ($20)

~Refractometer w/ calibration fluid kit ($35)

~Light ($175)

~Heaters ($60 for two I'm guessing)

~Another power head ($25, unless I get a fancy wavemaker one)

~API Test kit ($25)

~Salt ($25-$35)

~2 Thermometers ($5)

~Stuff for a lid (maybe $20?)

~Ammonia ($5 or $10?)

 

Around $380 more for me to get it up going, without an RODI unit. Might wait a little bit to get one of those if I can fit it somewhere, budgeting around $200 for one with TDS meter.

 

Then eventually I will want to get a coral dip, and maybe a phosphate test kit too.

 

Happy fish keeping!

[CrazyEyes]

I've even thought about going with just rocks and powerheads and skipping out on the sump, skimmer, filter etc. I still say 1 kessil a160 should do just fine for you, especially for now. They do look good, you could probably even get an AI prime which would cost around $205 with the tank arm and its wireless out of the box.

[shawnd08]

 

So yeah I'm into it for close to $2K by now... Granted I went all custom with my stand, DIY led light, and plumbing, oh and light hanging arm was sort of expensive too.

That's not bad at all considering my 15 gallon expenses look like this and this is not including a light.

[lkoechle]

Haha yes I did! Original meme btw!

 

But your tank was baller - an example to follow for starting a new tank with all the stuff you want.

Yes, but like I said, it was becayse I started cheaply in the hobby and built an ultimate list as I learned

 

It can be daunting, OP. However, I think I spent about 300 on my initial 20L not counting my brand new AI lights. Coral and livestock can add up but you can add as slowly or quickly as your budget allows. And get involved in tour local group. When we first moved to colorado, we got involved with MASC and had just setup a pico. We went to the annual coral swap meet with one little brown zoa polyp. That was all we had and had obly found expensive LFSs in the area. We went home with 15 frags because people knew we were new to the area and the club and they knew we had just started our pico.

 

People with large, mature tanks didn't need or want all the corals they brought and were eligible to recieve so they gave them to us. With the success of our large tank (the pico crashed around a year old ) and knowing where to get coral deals, we were able to return the favor at this past coral swap and help a teen stock out his first 10 gallon. He was like us when we first joined and only had a single ricordea to swap. I think he went home with 10 or so frags.

 

People in this community (the reef community as a whole, not just NR) are passionate abd we like to share what we have, whether its knowledge, a good deal, or just giving you what we have excess of in coral or equipment. So definitely get involved locally. People will also look for tank sitters, and one offer thats usually on the table is frags instead of pay.

 

If you get involved, people will show you their tricks and favorite LFS. There is actually only one in my area with a website, I wouldn't have found the others without being involved. Lol

 

And I got you all beat on tank costs. I bought my tank for $200, built the stand for $175 but then spent $5k in automation. So take a seat boys! then we have the sand and rock and live stock and battery back ups and UPS...

[HarryPotter]

Yes, but like I said, it was becayse I started cheaply in the hobby and built an ultimate list as I learned

 

It can be daunting, OP. However, I think I spent about 300 on my initial 20L not counting my brand new AI lights. Coral and livestock can add up but you can add as slowly or quickly as your budget allows. And get involved in tour local group. When we first moved to colorado, we got involved with MASC and had just setup a pico. We went to the annual coral swap meet with one little brown zoa polyp. That was all we had and had obly found expensive LFSs in the area. We went home with 15 frags because people knew we were new to the area and the club and they knew we had just started our pico.

 

People with large, mature tanks didn't need or want all the corals they brought and were eligible to recieve so they gave them to us. With the success of our large tank (the pico crashed around a year old ) and knowing where to get coral deals, we were able to return the favor at this past coral swap and help a teen stock out his first 10 gallon. He was like us when we first joined and only had a single ricordea to swap. I think he went home with 10 or so frags.

 

People in this community (the reef community as a whole, not just NR) are passionate abd we like to share what we have, whether its knowledge, a good deal, or just giving you what we have excess of in coral or equipment. So definitely get involved locally. People will also look for tank sitters, and one offer thats usually on the table is frags instead of pay.

 

If you get involved, people will show you their tricks and favorite LFS. There is actually only one in my area with a website, I wouldn't have found the others without being involved. Lol

 

And I got you all beat on tank costs. I bought my tank for $200, built the stand for $175 but then spent $5k in automation. So take a seat boys!

 

5k in automation? That thing better run itself for a year independently!

[lkoechle]

 

5k in automation? That thing better run itself for a year independently!

A part from filling the RO buckets, and calc/alk, refilling the auto feeder and cleaning the skimmer cup, it probably could. Lol aside from doing that stuff (minus the calc/alk, I have about a 6 month supply and the autofeeder holds a few months), I haven't done anything in a month.

[nanoreefer15]

How are par38 LEDs? I'm seeing a lot of these on eBay and Craigslist for cheap. Anyone used these and how are they? There's different wattages too like 36W. What should I get? Any other cheap lights? Thanks

[nanoreefer15]

There are a lot of good advice in this thread. I will throw out one more idea.

 

Go to a LFS that is well stocked with (hopefully) most of the equipment you want and see what sort of

deal they will give you if you buy the entire setup from them.

 

I have not done this myself buck have met people who have and they got great deals. Especially around the holidays.

 

Good luck,

David

Thanks for your suggestion! I asked my LFS and they said we could work something out. If I were to get

 

IM Lagoon 25g ($220)

Kessil a160we with gooseneck ($300)

Hydor circulation pumps ($40)

40g RODI water ($40)

Reef crystals ($50)

Fish food and coral dip ($25)

With that list I'm at about 675 dollars and I still need to get rock sand and a refractometer. What should I ask for/say about the deal? As you can see I'm new to this "negotiating" thing so I need some help lol. But as it is now at $675+$60(rock)+$40(sand)+$20(refractometer) is too expensive (didn't even upgrade filtration yet), so I need some advice! How do I work out a deal?