Why is it so expensive :(

[Gooburz]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

My parents don't feel comfortable buying used equipment and would rather buy it new, so I can't really do that. Also, I really love the clarity and sleekness of IM tanks and dislike the poor quality of the dollar per gallon tanks. I like kessils because they give that shimmering blue effect in the reef, but the price is too high. So all these restraints don't give me much wiggle room. Are there any equipment that I can remove/swap/hold off on until later?

 

Thanks again, I really love reef tanks but am struggling with the costs.

You can't have a champagin taste on a beer budget and stick your nose up at suggestions to save you money when you ask.....

 

There isn't poor quality in the tanks you can get at Petco on the dollar per gallon sale, a good chunk of people here use them and have been for years. Not sure how they are poor quality when they do what they are made to do for years on end. So that alone can save you almost $200.

 

Dry Rock/Live rock: look on craigslist you can always find rock on there for cheap. I got 40lbs of live rock at $3 lb from a local reefer who was downsizing his tank and he let me pick the pieces I wanted. That can save you more money.

 

Lighting: Something you don't want to skimp on so you may be stuck there But you can go with Reefbreeders fixture and save money and it will have a built in programable timer. Or you could also do PAR38 bulbs from Coral Compulsion and save money and they will grow pretty much anything.

 

Stand: Why not build your own stand and save yourself a ton of money. Store bought stands are cheap and made from dam near cardboard. There are a ton of threads on here on how to build your own stand that will be rock solid and cost you a lot less in parts. And if you don't have a tool you need go to Lowes or Home Depot and rent the tool for cheap too. Why would you put your reef tank you invest thousands of dollars in on a stand made of cheap particle board, it is an accident waiting to happen.

 

RO/DI system: It's not a must at first, majority of the LFS have water you can buy for cheap until you can save up some money to buy a RO/DI unit. We've all been there having to do that at one point.

 

This hobby isn't cheap by any means but save money where you can on your equiptment and tank so you can put money into the things that will go into your tank. When people come over and see my tank they don't go "eww is that a petco dollar per gallon sale tank?" Hell no, they are too busy looking at everything inside my tank and same goes for my stand.

[xCry0x]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2522786Someone selling a maxspec razor nano 16k for $190..

Pretty good deal for a light that retails for $290 http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/maxspect-60w-nano-r420r-razor-led-lighting-fixture.html

 

Honestly - buying LED fixtures used is a steal, especially if you are buying name brand fixtures. The lights have estimated life of what, 50,000 hours? This isn't like buying a used t5 or halide fixture where you end up buying new bulbs a week later.

The only problem with buying used is being patient.

[CrazyEyes]

For the most part there is nothing wrong with buying used, people sell stuff used all the time for various reasons, getting out of the hobby, changing plans, or maybe the product didn't fit their particular need. Only thing I myself will never buy used are heaters, other than that, I'll buy used over new whenever I can. That being said, just as stated, this is a hobby and anything related to any hobby is usually going to be expensive. If this is your first tank why spend all this money on a system? What if you end up not wanting to continue, you then just spend close to $1500, and trust me you will because budgets never work. My advice is this, buy a petco tank, buy a decent HOB filter, buy some decent powerheads, buy a decent light, rock, sand etc and just enjoy it and make sure you want to commit to something more high end.

[CrazyEyes]

For the record, this was my very first reef tank, a used 20g, cheap $20 HOB,heater, maxijet powerhead and used par bulbs, it was just an awesome tank, but I didn't want to dump a bunch of money into something end up not wanting to continue.

 

And this was my last tank, a rimless 20x20x20.

 

My point is, there is nothing wrong with going a little more cost effective you're first time around.

[xCry0x]

 

 

My point is, there is nothing wrong with going a little more cost effective you're first time around.

 

+1 -- Plus it lets you save money for the fun part - your corals & fish.

[Reefkid88]

Like everyone else said,go to Walmart or Petco and get a 10 gallon for like $14 at Walmart. Which is what 18"x10"x12" or something like that ? And like everyone also said,stalk local forums local fish stores and groups and ask around for equipment. It'll be so much cheaper. I've gotten a lot of my equipment by just stopping at lfs's asking if they had spare stuff laying around.

 

10g tank-$14

10lb Caribsea Sand-$15-$17

5-10lb dry rock-$5-$15 2-3lb of live rock-$5-$10

RW-4 -$50

RapidLed Par38-$85ish

Stand-$40-$80

AC50 Filter-$20-$50 (used-new)

Test Kits-$80-$100

Hydor Theo 50w Heater-$20

 

Grand scheme of things that's around $450-$500 give or take,all the options will be a ass load cheaper than the original route you wanted to go. All of which people have said are good options.

[lkoechle]

I would also just like to say, start cheap and go expensive later. You can upgrade lights, filters, pumps, etc. But if you are new to the hobby, you should figure out if its even the right hobby before putting in a lot of money. Start with a standard 10 or 20 set up with HOB filter, a maxijet or similar circulation pump and a used AI light or look at some of the other cheap lighting options. That way, if you figure out that topping off, water changes, stress (this hobby can be very stressful), or whatever runs you out of the hobby, you haven't dumped 1k into an experiment. And you havent even priced the live stock yet. Look at the tank of the month set ups, a lot of them are on a budget with budget equipment and make beautiful tanks. Do that first. Then you can even use frag sales to upgrade later.

[CrazyEyes]

I would also just like to say, start cheap and go expensive later. You can upgrade lights, filters, pumps, etc. But if you are new to the hobby, you should figure out if its even the right hobby before putting in a lot of money. Start with a standard 10 or 20 set up with HOB filter, a maxijet or similar circulation pump and a used AI light or look at some of the other cheap lighting options. That way, if you figure out that topping off, water changes, stress (this hobby can be very stressful), or whatever runs you out of the hobby, you haven't dumped 1k into an experiment. And you havent even priced the live stock yet. Look at the tank of the month set ups, a lot of them are on a budget with budget equipment and make beautiful tanks. Do that first. Then you can even use frag sales to upgrade later.

this exactly.

[HarryPotter]

You could get away with $400 with a really nice setup I think...

 

$100 Nuvo 10

$200 AI Prime

$30 API Reef Test kit, $30 Heater, $15 sand, $25 rock

 

(Oh and cheap $7 hydrometer, 10 gallons of LFS salt water is max $5)

[nanoreefer15]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by all the advice from everyone on this forum! It's really amazing and I greatly appreciate everyone's support.

 

$200-$250 is really expensive for just a tank, but I wanted a sleek tank that had very clear glass to showcase my reef. Also, I liked the AIO design instead of having a sump (seemed complicated to build and expensive). Could anyone offer any other suggestions for a sleek, clear tank other than IM? The reason I wanted IM was because I saw so many nice builds here using Fusion 10s and 20s and it seemed like a really good and popular tank.

 

I might go with the petco $1 per gallon tanks but then wouldn't that necessitate a sump? Also, what are the AC filters for? I thought that HOB filters weren't recommended for saltwater.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do about the light...I really love the shimmer of Kessils but I might go for a cheaper one to start out with before getting expensive lights.

 

For the water I'll probably buy a lightly used RODI system and buy IO salt mix to mix it myself. Although it's more money, it's a lot easier and convenient than driving to my LFS every week for water. If my parents are willing to drive me I will go with the LFS water.

 

I already have a API Freshwater Test kit, I'll use it for saltwater once I get the right color card.

 

 

So right now I have two routes:

 

Get everything I wanted originally. Hey, it's expensive, but the logic here is to spend the money on everything to get it right first so I won't spend more money down the road with upgrades and being upset about the things I didn't get initially.

 

Or take the less expensive route, buying a 20g long from petco, 10g sump (I'll hopefully learn how to build one myself somehow, seems like a fun project) OR AC filter (learning more toward the sump), buy AI lights from petco/used Kessil/some other cheaper light. Altogether seems to save about $300. Logic behind this is to start small, test the waters in reefing, see if it's something I'm passionate about and will stick with, and to avoid spending a lot of money on my first tank.

 

Not sure which route to go.

 

 

Thoughts? Thanks again for the continued support, it really helps a newbie like me.

[HarryPotter]

Thoughts? Thanks again for the continued support, it really helps a newbie like me.

 

 

I just had the best idea for you. This link is perfect... Check it out. Its a Nuvo 20 kit with EVERYTHING you need for $600.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/nuvo-fusion-20-gallon-starter-tank-kit.html

[Difrano]

Go with a Biocube 14 or 29, I just got mine for a week and love it, it has everything you need to start, including the light. Then there is 100s of DIY stuff you can do on it, this is so far my expense:

Biocube 29: $269

Live Rock TBS 10 lbs: $60

Live Rock LFS 15 Lbs: $30

Koralia 425 2x: $40

Live Sand 40lb: $50

Water: 30 Gal: $30

Master test kit API: $22

 

So far total: $501.

 

I'm working on a DIY media and fuge basket with led lighting, I bought all materials yesterday at home depot for $30, in the next couple of months I'm budgeting around $200 for the stocking. I will not try corals so far so no new light or coral feeding until tank matures and my pocket recovers.

 

The tank cycled in 1 week here is a FTS:

 

​

[jbb]

I have a refractometer that I am willing to donate

 

 

Edit : may have some other things too , will have to look.

[ajmckay]

Wow talk about an ass load of responses.

 

IMO there's not much else to say really that hasn't already been said.

 

Still, I can see both points of view. You can either save a bit more and get what you really want upfront of you can buy cheaper or used stuff to start. For your first reef - especially at your age - I would go for the budget system. This is simply because most people don't actually keep their first tank for that long... Usually end up changing it up once they've had the change to keep certain animals and they want to try something new or different.

 

Finally, while adding certain equipment (like a sump) can increase the costs quite a bit, don't forget about livestock.

 

You can spend $500 pretty easily stocking a 20g tank.

 

[frootbat]

 

You dislike the quality of the Petco tanks yet you are buying an IM tank?

 

This. I have had 2 IM tanks, the IM24 (shudder) and the Fusion 20. The 24 was a disaster, just google "Innovative Marine 24" "cracked" and "carpet"and you'll get the idea. The fusion 20 was OK, but even replacing everything but the glass I still didn't like it...I hated the stagnant water in the rear chambers.

 

I'm kind of into picos now, but when Chris comes out with his AIO kits for the 20L I'll have to give it a go link

 

If I decided to go back into nanos, for cheap I might do something like this:

 

10g tank - $15 at any petco/petsmart

Stand - maybe $30 at petco

quad t5 light - $48 http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4x18W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52302.htm

aquaclear 50 - $38 almost anywhere

10# of rock - I'd try as ninja suggested, but let's say you buy it - $60

100w heater - $25 at petco

10g saltwater at your lfs - $15

 

Total: $231, less if you get sand/rock from local reefers

 

This is really how I wish I had started, but instead I went with the IM24 and all the trimmings. Unfortunately, for various reasons, I wish I had started out with a MUCH cheaper setup so I could figure things out. Lessons learned are one thing, but lessons learned after you have dropped a ton of cash may be bitter enough for you to leave the hobby,and wonder why you wasted all that money to begin with. But then again, I have left the hobby twice now

[khuzdul]

We need to decide what is the horse and what is the cart.

 

You need to come up with what your target total budget is then we can help you build a "best of the breed" setup from there

 

As someone who has done project planning, starting with "this is what I want, it is unaffordable and how can I cut corners to get to an lower but unknown budget" is a project plan to failure...

 

As others have said, you can have a saltwater tank inexpensively, but since you are putting what you want before your budget you are eliminating those options and limiting your choices between an expensive setup you can't afford and not having a tank at all.

 

You do not have to have a RO/DI system. A lot of people have used store-bought RO/DI distilled water. Though they are well worth their cost, you can run a tank fine without them for a long time before you hit break even. Let's say that it is $1 a gallon of RO/DI water from Target / Walmart. Thats 150 gallons of water. On a 20 gallon fill and 4 gallon weekly change once the cycle is over after two /three months, you are good for 32.5 more weeks. By then you would know if you want to continue and invest in a RO/DI and budget for a system / installation / mixing station and do it right. It is not just total cost, but also managing cashflow. If you do not have the cashflow to buy everything up front, there is nothing wrong with going for the lower capital costs initially.

 

You do not have to have the InTank media baskets.

 

Unless you are getting very dense rock, 31lbs of rock and 20 lbs of live sand into a 20 gallon tank will leave you with very little water volume.

 

If you run a nano system and are relying on massive weekly water changes instead of dosing, you don't need expensive tests for calc / magnesium / alk. Just get a cheap API test kit for your cycle for ammonia, nitrogen, nitrate, etc. Then invest in a slightly better test kit a few months down the road to make sure that your saltwater mix for water changes is not stupidly off. If you are not dosing Calc, Alk or Mg, testing for them is just an expensive distraction provided your water change mix is fine.

 

That is $300 off of your idealized budget so far...

[Normang]

Search day and night for used equipment

 

 

I did that and saved quite a bit of money. I bought my tank, and the InTank media baskets new during black friday.I saved about 60 dollars buying them on sale. and everything else I have bought, I bought it used.

 

I paid 200 for the following, saving 105 bucks

 

IM Ghost Desktop Skimmer $150 New

Tunze Osmolator ATO $100 New

NeoTherm 75 watt heater $ 55

 

I also just bought a 2 week used Prime LED with mount for 165, saving $65

 

So as of now my savings are more than $200, all products I have received have been in excellent condition. Keep your eye out for good deals, and don't be in a hurry.

[1.0reef]

15 gallon tank for around $15

Modded used HOB filter or small skimmer around $75

Lighting $100 or so, DIY solderless led kits.

Livestock, test kits, water, food, etc $100+++

Be resourceful, buy used equipment, I got a monstrous skimmer off of Ebay for only $120 for my bowfront, which was bought used. A skimmer of similar performance would cost more than the tank itself if new.

[Begow]

20 Long ($20)

Overflow kit from glassholes ($40)

10 sump ($10)

Glass baffles ($5-10)

Plumbing ($20-30)

Jebao DC1200 ($50)

Jebao RW-4 ($50)

150w heater ($25-30)

Lightly used RO/DI ($100)

Reef Breeders Value fixture ($180)

Ebay Refractometer ($25)

15 lbs Dry rock ($34)

SCA 301 Skimmer ($94.99)

 

Roughly $660 or so. You could put the extra money in to a better light fixture or a media reactor, maybe grab a few test kits. Better overall system though IMO.

 

Good set up here.

 

 

You dislike the quality of the Petco tanks yet you are buying an IM tank?

 

Bro. Come onnnnnnnnn. My 30L is better than any petco tank I've ever had and I've had a lot.

 

You could get away with $400 with a really nice setup I think...

 

$100 Nuvo 10

$200 AI Prime

$30 API Reef Test kit, $30 Heater, $15 sand, $25 rock

 

(Oh and cheap $7 hydrometer, 10 gallons of LFS salt water is max $5)

 

If he was local I'd sell him my IM Fusion 10 for $50, it has a small scratch on the front glass but you can only see it from certain angles and it would be a perfect started tank.

[HarryPotter]

 

Good set up here.

 

 

Bro. Come onnnnnnnnn. My 30L is better than any petco tank I've ever had and I've had a lot.

 

 

If he was local I'd sell him my IM Fusion 10 for $50, it has a small scratch on the front glass but you can only see it from certain angles and it would be a perfect started tank.

Hey I'm local... And that sounds pretty cool . Would love to in a second if my parents let me! Let's see what begging I can do haha

[lkoechle]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by all the advice from everyone on this forum! It's really amazing and I greatly appreciate everyone's support.

 

$200-$250 is really expensive for just a tank, but I wanted a sleek tank that had very clear glass to showcase my reef. Also, I liked the AIO design instead of having a sump (seemed complicated to build and expensive). Could anyone offer any other suggestions for a sleek, clear tank other than IM? The reason I wanted IM was because I saw so many nice builds here using Fusion 10s and 20s and it seemed like a really good and popular tank.

 

I might go with the petco $1 per gallon tanks but then wouldn't that necessitate a sump? Also, what are the AC filters for? I thought that HOB filters weren't recommended for saltwater.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do about the light...I really love the shimmer of Kessils but I might go for a cheaper one to start out with before getting expensive lights.

 

For the water I'll probably buy a lightly used RODI system and buy IO salt mix to mix it myself. Although it's more money, it's a lot easier and convenient than driving to my LFS every week for water. If my parents are willing to drive me I will go with the LFS water.

 

I already have a API Freshwater Test kit, I'll use it for saltwater once I get the right color card.

 

 

So right now I have two routes:

 

Get everything I wanted originally. Hey, it's expensive, but the logic here is to spend the money on everything to get it right first so I won't spend more money down the road with upgrades and being upset about the things I didn't get initially.

 

Or take the less expensive route, buying a 20g long from petco, 10g sump (I'll hopefully learn how to build one myself somehow, seems like a fun project) OR AC filter (learning more toward the sump), buy AI lights from petco/used Kessil/some other cheaper light. Altogether seems to save about $300. Logic behind this is to start small, test the waters in reefing, see if it's something I'm passionate about and will stick with, and to avoid spending a lot of money on my first tank.

 

Not sure which route to go.

 

 

Thoughts? Thanks again for the continued support, it really helps a newbie like me.

Well, you definitely need to do some more researching on the forum and seeing how people are running their tanks. Most tanks are being run with an HOB filter. In fact, you mentioned "inTank" Stevie specifically designs inserts for HOB filters. The AC (AquaClear now owned by either Marineland or Fluval, so the box will say that, but still kept the AC name) is a HOB filter. If you look up AquaClear on here, you'll see how people use them as mini sumps. A sump is over kill unless you're super serious (and you can always put on an HOB overflow to a sump later if you go that route, but chances are, you'll just hit up another petco sale, grab a 40 and make this tank your sump) and need room for reactors, skimmer, doser, etc. Almost everything on a nano can be done using an HOB. I had matrix, carbon, and a refugium with chaeto in my AC 70 on my 20 L. That's about all that needs to be done for a tank that size, you'll be doing water changes so frequently that water changes will keep up with any excess waste or nutrient depletion (minerals, w/e like calc alk mag, etc)

 

And any tank can use a sump, it all depends on if the tank you have will make that easy or not. IM? Not easy. $1 per gallon tank (lets call them aqueon or tetras because that's usually what they are)? Pretty easy. Nothing fancy like a rear chamber to get in your way. But sumps are optional. Personally, I would only use a sump on a 40G or bigger or if housing something messy like seahorses or predators. Some people use sumps on 10 gallons, it's all preference.

 

By AI I mean Aqua Illumination. Their first lights, the AI SOL you can get used for really cheap. I purchased a new unit for $635 in 2011 and picked up a second unit when I upgraded to my 85 gallon in 2014 for $70. It's a good cheap light now and they can still grow anything.

 

I would agree with your logic about getting everything perfect now, if you had been in the hobby before. You will learn a lot by reading the posts here as your tank develops and you may find yourself going "Hm, I wish I didn't get an IM, I would really like the flexibility of __________ better." or the same line of thought on another piece of equipment. If you look at my thread, you'll see I'm running what would be a very overwhelming system for a beginner (or it would be for me as noob, and was when I read threads about systems like mine). My current tank is the culmination of everything I learned from reading Nano-reef and from keeping my own cheap tanks since 2011. Cheap is the way to ease yourself in this hobby, your ideas will grow and change and mature. And your cheap stuff will always be useful so its not lost money. I use parts from my original 20 gallon for quarantine or treating sick fish or when I get the urge to start another tank. So, that equipment will always be useful. I just think it would be very unwise and will lead to buyers remorse later if you put all this money into your first tank. Go cheap with your first, use it to get familiar with maitanence, basic husbandry, stress, etc while continuing to participate in the community and asking questions and then put that saved money into a system you've really thought out and understand really well.

 

At the moment, you don't really understand how these systems work. You just have a rudimentary idea of how to get started and that's where we all began. I mean, when we set up our first tank I was already eyeballing vortechs and the apex system, and skimmers. But I didn't really understand how the pieces of equipment work or affected the tank because I hadn't seen enough in my own experience. And my ideas did change between then and now. My first tank probably would have been a spectacular failure if I spent the 4k then because I would have gotten cocky and over reliant on my equipment.

 

Starting cheap made me focus more on the care of my tank and more thoroughly think out my livestock plans and maintenance and pay more attention.

 

TL;DR: start cheap now to learn everything and develop your ideas while practicing with your cheap tank. Go expensive when you more thoroughly understand how everything works together and have a better chance at actually getting things right.

 

PS and mixing your own salt and have your own ro/di is more expensive upfront, but definitely cheaper in the long run if you're staying. I would always go ro/di route and never rely on the LFS, especially in the event of an emergency.

Wow talk about an ass load of responses.

 

IMO there's not much else to say really that hasn't already been said.

 

Still, I can see both points of view. You can either save a bit more and get what you really want upfront of you can buy cheaper or used stuff to start. For your first reef - especially at your age - I would go for the budget system. This is simply because most people don't actually keep their first tank for that long... Usually end up changing it up once they've had the change to keep certain animals and they want to try something new or different.

 

Finally, while adding certain equipment (like a sump) can increase the costs quite a bit, don't forget about livestock.

 

You can spend $500 pretty easily stocking a 20g tank.

 

 

I believe you quoted this meme in my thread while I was still building it... But you know, you were still drooling the whole time

[SpankythePyro]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

My parents don't feel comfortable buying used equipment and would rather buy it new, so I can't really do that. Also, I really love the clarity and sleekness of IM tanks and dislike the poor quality of the dollar per gallon tanks. I like kessils because they give that shimmering blue effect in the reef, but the price is too high. So all these restraints don't give me much wiggle room. Are there any equipment that I can remove/swap/hold off on until later?

 

Thanks again, I really love reef tanks but am struggling with the costs.

 

IM tanks are known for leaks, cracks, and water on the floor.

 

I'd honestly trust an Aqueon tank over an IM tank any day

[lkoechle]

 

IM tanks are known for leaks, cracks, and water on the floor.

 

I'd honestly trust and Aqueon tank over an IM tank any day

About 2 months or so ago it seemed like every time I got NR someone was talking about how their tank cracked. I think it was 3 different IM tank fails in one week. Crazy.

[xCry0x]

Id just watch here & reef central for used stuff. People go in and out of this hobby incredibly fast. You can find a lot of top end equipment with less than a year of use for some big discounts.

 

You also see a lot of "I bought X and a month later decided to upgrade to Y so I am selling X" etc.. just lots of people changing their mind and you can benefit if you are patient =)

[ninjamyst]

Don't hate on the Petco tank and HOB filter. Check out Gena's 20 gallons tank with HOB. She won two tank of the month already, and she's on her way to a 3rd by the looks of this tank. It's super simple. She is using some expensive equipments from her old 45 gallon tank(maxspect razor, mp10, apex), but the tank itself is just a regular tank you can get from Petco for $20. She's an inspiration that it's not about the equipment, it's about your passion. (of course I say this as I am about to drop $2k on a Red Sea Reefer 350....)

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/361784-the-pastel-garden/