Tristan's Custom PicO (NewFts)

[Red_Blenny]

Your new scape looks a lot better. I can imagine a bunch of SPS at the top.

 

Sorry to hear about your clowns though. I hope they make it.

[Hexadron]

Sorry about your clowns

 

Ugh, it just shown how important quarantine can be. What are you treating with?

[TristanC]

Your new scape looks a lot better. I can imagine a bunch of SPS at the top.

 

Sorry to hear about your clowns though. I hope they make it.

Thank you, I too like this scape much more. I'm planning on two monti caps for starters when the time is right.

 

Sorry about your clowns

 

Ugh, it just shown how important quarantine can be. What are you treating with?

Yeah this is totally my fault. Lost the newbie today, He was pretty beat up.

[TristanC]

Alright so as we all know my new clown succumbed to brook, Pete showed signs but they have all gone away and he is completely normal now. This is well passed the normal time for the fish to die, Im guessing he has built up some type of immunity? Im not sure how to proceed here, if he is immune but infected he would probably infect any fish that is in the same tank as him. Maybe he doesn't even have it who knows.. Im thinking I will have to put him through the normal formalin treatment to make sure he is cured before any other fish can be purchased but I am having a hard time finding it.

 

Different subject. Recently Ive been thinking about placing an order with Gulfliverock and completely redoing the tank with it. The thought of the immense diversity of both macros and hitchhikers as well as the much more complete bacterial profile is really making me want to try it out. My reasoning is my tank already has to stay empty for 4-6 weeks, why not redo the whole rockwork and re-cycle with the gulfliverock. Give me some feedback guys.

 

Also Kat if you see this do you think this would be beneficial for me (I know you are a gulf live rock customer).

 

Cheers folks!

[aquariumlover10]

I would get LR from here www.tbsaltwater.com its aquacultured in the gulf of mxico and is shipped and collected in full water so almost no die off.

[Hexadron]

Bah, as much as I love the diversity that comes with Live rock, I just hate the pests ... I tried twice and both times a blowout of Aiptasia, even though there were no signs on the live rock, and even with Aiptasia-X and other methods, I could never get rid of it all.

 

That being said, I have seen some builds that use the TBS rock and it is bloody amazing. If you want some quality live rock order there. I would give it another shot if they shipped to Canada!

[Red_Blenny]

I love the diversity that comes with LR (random pods, snails, strawberry nems, mantis, blennies, etc.), which makes the setup exciting...

 

But like what JDH said, hitchhikers can make it pretty frustrating (aptasia, bobbit worm, hydroids, invasive algae, etc).

 

 

 

Overall, I'd a few LR mainly for the diversity along with dry base rock.

[aquariumlover10]

If you order the pacchage you get a cuc and they ship all sand and half rock, and then once cycled they send the decor rock with everything, and they send different snails, crabs, and peppermint shrimp that eat apaista.

 

Here's link to a thread of some upacking and tank pics. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=98a7ba5aeacbe1da30628b61712e45e4&threadid=1626705

[Hexadron]

Here's link to a thread of some upacking and tank pics. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=98a7ba5aeacbe1da30628b61712e45e4&threadid=1626705

 

I died when I saw the baby octopus! Frickin' sweet.

[aquariumlover10]

Hqha, yup a lot of people get them.

[Red_Blenny]

Hqha, yup a lot of people get them.

 

I was wondering how much 'bad' hitchhikers you can get from LR from the Gulf? Whelks, crabs, hydroids, and other algae seems to scare me... Then again, free mantis shrimp seems like a deal breaker for me.

 

I'm just wondering, since I'm planning to either get LR from the Gulf or Manado LR in the future.

[Drift Monkey]

I'm diggin your new scape!

 

"Fresh" LR is a pass for me. Dry rock lets me control what I put in the tank....you get enough hitchhikers from frags, etc. "Diverse bacteria" is a buzzword that doesn't mean much to me...all the bacteria you need is already in the air/your water. "Cured" (sitting somewhere dark with flow/water changes/skimmed) rock is tops, IMO - but we can do that ourselves if we have the patience.

 

Also, while running a skimmer will be dependant on your expected livestock, I'd still personally run one, if given the funds (and I do ). I've recently found a newfound respect for skimmers...as they are one of the only true ways to effectively export nutrients.

 

Of course, water changes accomplish the same thing (and more) but a skimmer goes a long way in making water changes more effective. On the other hand, since our tanks are so small (comparatively), water changes are not too big of a deal, so skimming is optional. It all comes down to what you plan to keep, and if you can justify the expense of a skimmer.

[metrokat]

I can't say enough good things about Gulf Live Rock. I've ordered 3 times from them and the rock is amazing. In my last shipment I got 2 very small mantis shrimp, I was able to catch one and ship him to someone the other one got killed by the huge pistol shrimp.

 

I did get a couple of aiptasias that show up within the first month but they are banded aiptasia, non invasive kind, easily killed.

 

I do not recommend this rock for new hobbyists, because it can be daunting if you get a shipment with more HH than you care for. If you aren't intimidated then this is the rock for you.

 

Uncured rock in general from the ocean is by far the only fully complete bacterial profile you can inoculate your tank with. No other form of nitrogen cycle will be this complete practically on day 1. You've heard it mentioned "your tank is young" on many threads, this isn't a statement about age (although it is also), it's that the tank cannot handle certain processes, be it sudden bioload, or excess nutrients. This is not because the hobbyists isn't performing water changes. The tanks bacterial profile has not ramped up sufficiently to process what you throw in. It will in time. Hence also the age comment.

 

HTH.

 

 

Oh. Also for the cycling Q, I did not have a cycle 2 of the 3 times I used uncured rock. Both these times I added it to an established tank. The one time I did have a cycle was when I started a brand new tank with it. It depends how fast you have it shipped, the die off, the weather, and you can always cure it in a bucket with a light, heater and circulation if you want to add it to an established tank.

[Drift Monkey]

Another reason to avoid "uncured" rock is that companies usually use mined rocks and place them into lagoonal farm areas to mature. Even if the rock was naturally occurring, they'd come from lagoonal areas....I'm not a fan of rocks from a lagoonal area. These areas are high in nutrients (it's mostly the phosphate I'm worried about) and I don't want dirty rocks to begin with. This can be fine if you plan on keeping a lagoonal type biotope and want the biodiversity, and lack of a "cycle" though (along with being ok with all the random hitchhikers, be they good or bad). To me, creating a biotope similar to where our specific inhabitants are found trumps biodiversity for biodiversity's sake, but I digress.

 

That being said, mined "dry" rocks can also be bound with phosphates, which is why I like rock we "cure" ourselves, or buying rock that someone else has cured. Rocks are self cleaning (through bacterial turgor), if given the chance, and bacteria can unbind the calcium carbonate locked phosphate if water column phosphate levels are low enough. Good water flow (or even basting/shaking the rocks) helps this process. The phosphate we can then export by removing the bacterial floc (dead bacteria, detritus) that falls off the rock via water changes/skimming. This is the big reason why "cured" rocks, well....rock.

 

Dry rock doesn't have the "bacterial profile" of uncured rock, but the same nitrifying bacteria are quick proliferate within dry rock as soon as organics are added. Also bear in mind that the bacteria population is never static...it swells and shrinks depending on organic load. Starting out with tons of nitrifying bacteria isn't that useful if you plan on slow stocking....the "booming" population will just dwindle. As with starting with dry rock...the bacteria will adjust to your specific organic load at any given point.

 

Just giving you a bit of counterpoint here and reasons why I personally don't do uncured.

[aquariumlover10]

TBS live rock is culture in the gulf of mexico not in tampa bay, and it is cured at a facility where they also package it.

[Drift Monkey]

Didn't realize Tampa Bay wasn't a part of the Gulf of Mexico...

[aquariumlover10]

It is, I'm just saying they don't culture in a smaler area, they do it in the ocean not the bay.

[TristanC]

I would get LR from here www.tbsaltwater.com its aquacultured in the gulf of mxico and is shipped and collected in full water so almost no die off.

 

 

If you order the pacchage you get a cuc and they ship all sand and half rock, and then once cycled they send the decor rock with everything, and they send different snails, crabs, and peppermint shrimp that eat apaista.

 

Here's link to a thread of some upacking and tank pics. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=98a7ba5aeacbe1da30628b61712e45e4&threadid=1626705

 

 

TBS live rock is culture in the gulf of mexico not in tampa bay, and it is cured at a facility where they also package it.

 

 

It is, I'm just saying they don't culture in a smaler area, they do it in the ocean not the bay.

Thank you for the recommendation, I am actually looking at the site as we speak. I do like that the collect, package, and ship all from the same place and the reduced die off is definitely a plus. Only thing would be I don't really need/want the cuc or the sand as I already have that stuff, I would probably only get the rock.

 

Bah, as much as I love the diversity that comes with Live rock, I just hate the pests ... I tried twice and both times a blowout of Aiptasia, even though there were no signs on the live rock, and even with Aiptasia-X and other methods, I could never get rid of it all.

 

That being said, I have seen some builds that use the TBS rock and it is bloody amazing. If you want some quality live rock order there. I would give it another shot if they shipped to Canada!

 

 

I died when I saw the baby octopus! Frickin' sweet.

I am also more that worried about the possibility of pests and bad hitchhikers, I really just feel the the good would outweigh the bad. I love the mystery and finding new things all the time with real LR, Also with the different colors of algae and sponges ect. it would look amazing.

 

I love the diversity that comes with LR (random pods, snails, strawberry nems, mantis, blennies, etc.), which makes the setup exciting...

 

But like what JDH said, hitchhikers can make it pretty frustrating (aptasia, bobbit worm, hydroids, invasive algae, etc).

 

 

 

Overall, I'd a few LR mainly for the diversity along with dry base rock.

 

 

I was wondering how much 'bad' hitchhikers you can get from LR from the Gulf? Whelks, crabs, hydroids, and other algae seems to scare me... Then again, free mantis shrimp seems like a deal breaker for me.

 

I'm just wondering, since I'm planning to either get LR from the Gulf or Manado LR in the future.

In this case with it being such a small tank I would use primarily LR with a few pieces of my dry rock to complete the scape.

 

I'm diggin your new scape!

 

"Fresh" LR is a pass for me. Dry rock lets me control what I put in the tank....you get enough hitchhikers from frags, etc. "Diverse bacteria" is a buzzword that doesn't mean much to me...all the bacteria you need is already in the air/your water. "Cured" (sitting somewhere dark with flow/water changes/skimmed) rock is tops, IMO - but we can do that ourselves if we have the patience.

 

Also, while running a skimmer will be dependant on your expected livestock, I'd still personally run one, if given the funds (and I do ). I've recently found a newfound respect for skimmers...as they are one of the only true ways to effectively export nutrients.

 

Of course, water changes accomplish the same thing (and more) but a skimmer goes a long way in making water changes more effective. On the other hand, since our tanks are so small (comparatively), water changes are not too big of a deal, so skimming is optional. It all comes down to what you plan to keep, and if you can justify the expense of a skimmer.

 

 

Another reason to avoid "uncured" rock is that companies usually use mined rocks and place them into lagoonal farm areas to mature. Even if the rock was naturally occurring, they'd come from lagoonal areas....I'm not a fan of rocks from a lagoonal area. These areas are high in nutrients (it's mostly the phosphate I'm worried about) and I don't want dirty rocks to begin with. This can be fine if you plan on keeping a lagoonal type biotope and want the biodiversity, and lack of a "cycle" though (along with being ok with all the random hitchhikers, be they good or bad). To me, creating a biotope similar to where our specific inhabitants are found trumps biodiversity for biodiversity's sake, but I digress.

 

That being said, mined "dry" rocks can also be bound with phosphates, which is why I like rock we "cure" ourselves, or buying rock that someone else has cured. Rocks are self cleaning (through bacterial turgor), if given the chance, and bacteria can unbind the calcium carbonate locked phosphate if water column phosphate levels are low enough. Good water flow (or even basting/shaking the rocks) helps this process. The phosphate we can then export by removing the bacterial floc (dead bacteria, detritus) that falls off the rock via water changes/skimming. This is the big reason why "cured" rocks, well....rock.

 

Dry rock doesn't have the "bacterial profile" of uncured rock, but the same nitrifying bacteria are quick proliferate within dry rock as soon as organics are added. Also bear in mind that the bacteria population is never static...it swells and shrinks depending on organic load. Starting out with tons of nitrifying bacteria isn't that useful if you plan on slow stocking....the "booming" population will just dwindle. As with starting with dry rock...the bacteria will adjust to your specific organic load at any given point.

 

Just giving you a bit of counterpoint here and reasons why I personally don't do uncured.

 

 

Didn't realize Tampa Bay wasn't a part of the Gulf of Mexico...

Thank you for the replies, I am looking to hear from both sides here so I can make the most informed decision I can. I do agree with you on being able to control what I put in the tank, this is actually why I started using dry on my last tank and again this one. There is something about not exactly knowing what all encompasses my tanks ecosystem that is drawing me to the LR.

 

About the skimmer, I like using them even in small tanks. On my 20H I had a reef octo bh1000 hob and that thing was a beast, I never had nutrient issues and my corals grew like mad. I may decide to toss a skimmer in there eventually, maybe one of the new tunze units... Again thanks for the reply!

 

I can't say enough good things about Gulf Live Rock. I've ordered 3 times from them and the rock is amazing. In my last shipment I got 2 very small mantis shrimp, I was able to catch one and ship him to someone the other one got killed by the huge pistol shrimp.

 

I did get a couple of aiptasias that show up within the first month but they are banded aiptasia, non invasive kind, easily killed.

 

I do not recommend this rock for new hobbyists, because it can be daunting if you get a shipment with more HH than you care for. If you aren't intimidated then this is the rock for you.

 

Uncured rock in general from the ocean is by far the only fully complete bacterial profile you can inoculate your tank with. No other form of nitrogen cycle will be this complete practically on day 1. You've heard it mentioned "your tank is young" on many threads, this isn't a statement about age (although it is also), it's that the tank cannot handle certain processes, be it sudden bioload, or excess nutrients. This is not because the hobbyists isn't performing water changes. The tanks bacterial profile has not ramped up sufficiently to process what you throw in. It will in time. Hence also the age comment.

 

HTH.

 

 

Oh. Also for the cycling Q, I did not have a cycle 2 of the 3 times I used uncured rock. Both these times I added it to an established tank. The one time I did have a cycle was when I started a brand new tank with it. It depends how fast you have it shipped, the die off, the weather, and you can always cure it in a bucket with a light, heater and circulation if you want to add it to an established tank.

Thanks for stopping by! I am by no means intimidated by the unique diversity of the rock, or the possible unwanted hitchhikers in fact I welcome it. One of my biggest concerns is aiptasia, Ive never had an outbreak but I have witnessed them take over a tank first hand. This was the kind of info I was looking for about the bacterial profile, and it makes complete sense thank you. For this tank i am planning on it cycling because it is so new, all livestock will be in a holding tank so I can handle them separately.

[Mstefa1]

Live rock FTW IMO but to each his own. In large tanks it isn't economical as dry rock is but for such as small tank I personally prefer live rock. One thing to consider is that live rock has a nice color from the moment you put it into your tank while dry rock looks bright white (and ugly IMO) until coraline grows on it.

[TristanC]

 

Live rock FTW IMO but to each his own. In large tanks it isn't economical as dry rock is but for such as small tank I personally prefer live rock. One thing to consider is that live rock has a nice color from the moment you put it into your tank while dry rock looks bright white (and ugly IMO) until coraline grows on it.

I agree completely. I may have made my decision, I think I prefer gulfliverock over tbsaltwater.

[aquariumlover10]

Noooooooooooo, you have entered the dark side, nonononono, www.tbsaltwater.com www.tbsaltwater.com

[Drift Monkey]

The rock will work...especially if they "seed" it off the coast, then let it cure for a sufficient amount of time to let some of the bad stuff die/nutrients leach out. As long as it's actually "cured" in their facility....I don't see a problem. To be clear, it's the "uncured" stuff I'm not a fan of. I personally like dry rock based on price alone (and don't mind waiting), but that's just me.

 

Either way, in any scenario...purging the rock of bound phosphates is the right move as they exist in most forms of "natural" (as in not artificially made) rock. A skimmer would help this process along, as would water changes. Your cycle would be shorter yes, but I'd stock just as slowly as any other method.

[aquariumlover10]

Yup, they let it sit in the ocean for like 15 years of something cand then take it as need and start a new pile.

[Mstefa1]

The rock will work...especially if they "seed" it off the coast, then let it cure for a sufficient amount of time to let some of the bad stuff die/nutrients leach out. As long as it's actually "cured" in their facility....I don't see a problem. To be clear, it's the "uncured" stuff I'm not a fan of. I personally like dry rock based on price alone (and don't mind waiting), but that's just me.

 

I think it is safe assumption that any live rock that you purchase should be treated as "uncured" unless you have personally witnessed it transferred in water from an established tank. I'm not sure how long you need to wait with dry rock but with uncured live rock 3-4 weeks and you are rocking. Coraline could take 6 months or more to establish itself and I've seen tanks 6 months old that were started with dry rock and the rock still looks white from acid cooking. That sterile look isn't for me.

[Drift Monkey]

I think it is safe assumption that any live rock that you purchase should be treated as "uncured" unless you have personally witnessed it transferred in water from an established tank. I'm not sure how long you need to wait with dry rock but with uncured live rock 3-4 weeks and you are rocking. Coraline could take 6 months or more to establish itself and I've seen tanks 6 months old that were started with dry rock and the rock still looks white from acid cooking. That sterile look isn't for me.

 

I don't know about that...it was once common practice for stores to "cure" dry rock for months before selling them. Some still do, but it's less common since the "uncured" craze came about.

 

If it still takes 3-4 weeks to for uncured...well that kinda defeats the allure of "immediate stocking." Dry rock takes around the same amount of time. Acid cooking is a whole 'nother story, but the "sterile look" thing is subjective anyway. Coraline can be readily seeded to basically any rock if that's your thing.