A designer's minimal Reef

[Miguel Burguete]

Hey I think you should stick with that plan! It looks gorgeous.

I will also use a cover fot the triangle overflow so I cant see the pipes!!

 

Mine will be like this:

[Nstocks]

How are you envisaging the lid on the overflow box? I think the easiest way would be to add small braces for the lid to sit on, but it's not so elegant (from the outside!)

[Miguel Burguete]

It will be the same high as the tank so it fits perfect. The overflow box is just a bit lower than the aquarium glass. It is two triangles glued to each other one smaller than the other so it do not moves.

[frags]

Do you know that the return flow will be the correct amount to come to the height of the slit you are making so it will skim the surface? The key is to skim the surface!

[Nstocks]

Do you know that the return flow will be the correct amount to come to the height of the slit you are making so it will skim the surface? The key is to skim the surface!

 

So the top of the return outlets should be level with the surface skimmer? I made it 5mm higher so it is centred for visual appeal. I could probably make the return a slot the same as the skimming slot doing something like this: (But it would need to be wider than the 20mm pipe otherwise the flow will be too restricted?)

 

http://img01.cp.aliimg.com/imgextra/i4/66270261/T2NcaTXh0XXXXXXXXX_!!66270261.jpg

[frags]

What I am saying is the amount of gph in the return pump determines the height of the water over the weir. So if your gph return is not the correct amount to be equal to the size of the gap in the overflow box you might not end up skimming the surface.not sure if you understand what im saying... here's an example

 

A typical overflow with a weir and 1000 gph return pump would have say 1/2 in of water going over the weir.But say the pump was 250 gph the thickness of the water would be ab 1/8 going over....and this all depends o. The distance of the weir.

 

 

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/319198-fragsreef-floating-40-breeder-sps-tank/page-11mgph

[Nstocks]

Ah yes I understand that. Isn't this partly why we install valves on the (main) drain and return pipe? I think 10mm should allow enough flow but I'm not able to calculate the actual flow.

 

Traditional teeth may be 30-50mm high, but they have lalf the skimming surface so the flow perhaps isn't any higher than what I'm looking to use.

 

It does all come down the controlling the drain/return flow however which is where I believe the ball valves come into play.

[Nstocks]

How would I calculate if the sump is large enough to hold the excess drain water, should the return pump fail?

[Miguel Burguete]

Have to measure the empty space you have in the sump and the volume in the tank.

 

Imagine you have water 4 cm above the pipe from the return pump. You have to do this: 6,5 dcm x 6,5 dcm x 0,4 dcm = 16,9 litres will go down to the sump if you turn the pump off or if there is an electrical failure.

 

So you sump is 40 cm x 55 cm. 4 x 5,5 = 22. If you leave 10 centimetres free in your sump it gives you 22 x 1 = 22 litres! I would say that it is better to leave a bit more, like 15 cm.

 

Hope it helped. Only reason to convert centimetres in decimetres is that is gives you the result in litres.

[farkwar]

You know what would be minimalistic?

 

An Xaqua XinXout.

[Miguel Burguete]

You know what would be minimalistic?

 

An Xaqua XinXout.

 

Hey,

 

I believe that it is almost true! The problem of that is that you still see the pipes, the tubes. But never used so my opinion is only focused on the aesthetic part of it, just from what I see, mostly on-line.

[farkwar]

Hey,

 

I believe that it is almost true! The problem of that is that you still see the pipes, the tubes. But never used so my opinion is only focused on the aesthetic part of it, just from what I see, mostly on-line.

 

Black the back.

 

No visible tubing.

 

Fixed

[Miguel Burguete]

Black the back. No visible tubing. Fixed

 

In that case Yes! But i think that the idea here is to have all translucent.. Dont know, it is not my topic. But X-Aqua is great!

[Nstocks]

Have to measure the empty space you have in the sump and the volume in the tank.

 

Imagine you have water 4 cm above the pipe from the return pump. You have to do this: 6,5 dcm x 6,5 dcm x 0,4 dcm = 16,9 litres will go down to the sump if you turn the pump off or if there is an electrical failure.

 

So you sump is 40 cm x 55 cm. 4 x 5,5 = 22. If you leave 10 centimetres free in your sump it gives you 22 x 1 = 22 litres! I would say that it is better to leave a bit more, like 15 cm.

 

Hope it helped. Only reason to convert centimetres in decimetres is that is gives you the result in litres.

 

That was my assumption of how to calculate it.

 

I have at leat 18 litres spare space in the sump.

 

With 30mm of water height (20mm return pipe plus 10mm extra) is around 13 litres so I do have enough space

 

 

You know what would be minimalistic?

 

An Xaqua XinXout.

 

Hey,

 

I believe that it is almost true! The problem of that is that you still see the pipes, the tubes. But never used so my opinion is only focused on the aesthetic part of it, just from what I see, mostly on-line.

 

I looked into that but I don't like the idea of having any pipework outside of the tank / aquarium.

 

I think if there is a clever way to house all of this within the tank by creating a 'false' dry chamber there could be benefits over the herbie method... see image for how much space I'd save! (Xaqua 120mm x 60mm - plus 70mm from edge of glass) (Something like this might work: http://www.acquaticlife.net/public/images/tracxaqua.jpg)

 

Would the Xaqua return / wave maker be sufficient on its own or would I still need powerhead? Is the pump located in the sump and not within the Xaqua unit itself? (read: silent?)

 

EDIT: Without taking the pipework of the Xaqua into account, I don't think I will be saving that much space at all (housing it inside the display tank behind acrylic wall). Aqua's website has extremely poor product detail drawings

 

EDIT 2: It looks like the wave maker can be separated from the drain... Perhaps placing then side on from each other with the teeth facing the front of the tank and wave maker at the side, I could save more space?

 

Oceanlife overflow looks even smaller!

 

This project is indeed about having everything clear / white / transparent. A little bit of chrome in there too when I design the light frame (which will also house the powerhead cable somehow!)

[farkwar]

If you make that dry chamber, you can put an MP10 in there, hide the dry side and wire.

 

Thats how Elos does its drains returns, its a dry plenum.

 

But I wasnt thinking of putting it in your overflow. I was thinking removing the overflow, and then you only have the XinXout small grill and small return. Takes up no real estate in tank, hardly noticable.

[Nstocks]

Wouldn't the Xaqua wave maker be sufficient on its own? On some videos it looks very powerful.

 

Just to be clear; this unit also returns the water from the sump via the wave maker, right?

 

The only other problem with this or the ocean life overflow is the noise since they are no fully submerged / siphoned.

[Nstocks]

With the Xaqua/Oceanlife overflows, there is only one drain but what is the risk of flooding? My current design has twin standpipes for noise reduction and emergencies - would a DIY Xaqua work just as well? I can save a lot of space if I use one drain and one return but I don't want the risk incase the only drain blocks. (Use a larger pipe inlet?)

[farkwar]

That's why your return chamber in your sump is as small as can be.

 

Not like it's probable that the drain will clog. But just in case.

 

The other reason is for your ATO sensor; evaporation happens, and first evident in the return chamber.

[Nstocks]

So technically, as long as there is enough space in the sump to accommodate excess water, should the pump fail, one drain is fine?

 

If so, would it matter how I design the overflow i,e how it currently is where the overflow box fills with water before going into the return pipe, or where the overflow box is dry and I have a pipe connected directly to what would be a much smaller overflow box such as the X aqua?

 

Could a DIY Xaqua be fully submerged within the tank whereby the drain is fully siphoned and the skimming slot is higher so that the water line is always above the drain pipe.

 

 

 

I see what you are saying with the return chamber; the smaller that is, the less water can be pumped back into the tank so there is no chance of the tank overflowing since the pump would be running dry so to speak.

 

Of course I could just buy a Xaqua or ocean life overflow but it seems they can be a little noisy - perhaps the proposed design with full siphon will fix that.

[farkwar]

If the pump fails, its your sump reserve that is concerned.

 

Your sump is designed to hold sump water, AND all the water that will drain into it from the tank with power failure/pump failure.

 

So have 30 liters of excess volume in sump for 15 liters that will come from the display tank.

 

Two drains are fail safe if one gets clogged. The second drain takes all the overflow.With one drain, if it clogs, you need to have small return chamber so pump will run dry instead of pumping full sump volume into and over display tank.

[Nstocks]

Got it!

 

Do you know if the ocean life or Xaqua run silent? The main reason for making one of these myself is to make it silent as possible - I've heard mixed things about them. (relating to the drain in the display, not the pump). It seems that neither of them run at full siphon which explains the noise.

 

Would the return pump from either of them be sufficient for the only water movement within the display tank?

 

A lack of information on the manufactures website is a pain!!!

 

OR I could just use one standpipe at a few inches below the display tank water line... How would this work with an ATO though? Won't the return chamber keep filling until the ATO runs dry?

[Nstocks]

I'm re-designing the overflow entirely, and adjusting the sump so I have plenty of space for extra water, however the one chamber I'm uncertain about is the RO/DI chamber.

 

An auto top off unit wouldn't be such a good idea if I have one drain only, if in the very unlikely event the single drain blocked the ATO would keep dumping water into the return chamber and overflowing the display...

 

So, would it be worthwhile to keep the RO chamber anyway and install a small pump so that I can manually turn it on for top ups. It's got to be better than carrying jugs of water and pouring it into the tanks.

[farkwar]

The ATO has a sensor in the return chamber. It tells the ATO when its low and high.

 

If you use a float switch, use some backup redundancy like a . controller that turns off the pump after a few minutes.

 

 

 

The Hydor ATO has all that already but you can use a controller as well.

 

The ATO in the sump is good design. It. Keeps the water temps the same.

 

Unfortunately, my tank with the Xin Xout is still dry.Might get wet next week. Might do water test this week though. Ill let you know how loud it is. I was going to drill for a vent tube if the drain gurgled.

 

I jave toyed with the idea of a.second one in the other corner but I would need a second pump if I do that. And I dont want to drill this tank myself.

[Nstocks]

I think it will be safer to manually pump the RO water and less cost.

 

For redundancy, how about installing a float switch in the display tank that when tripped, turns off the return pump? To set this up would cost a small fortune though - controllers run in the £100's. I'm not aware of any small float switches either, other than those brass water sensors people use on the floor.

[farkwar]

Do you have Amazon there.

 

Amico float switches are like $4, like £2.4. You can make the acrylic brackets DIY with a propane torch or heatgun.

 

Digital Aquatic s Reefkeeper Lite are $119.

 

The Hydor is $60 on Amazon right now. This uses a three pronged sensor, it senses low, water level, and high water level. Alarms on high, fills on low, stops at water level tine/prong.

 

None of this is minimalist, of course.

 

http://www.hydor.com/eng/distribuzione.php#europe