Bottom drain... is it possible or not?

[ll_maynard_ll]

Just another idea, you could have one of the side panes of glass an inch or so shorter than the rest to act as an overflow into a tray at the base that then drains into your sump similar to the zero edge aquariums but only one edge of yours would have water flowing over it instead of all of them. It would take out all the complex plumbing and risk of floods that may prop up in your other designs.

[Jaden1592]

Get the bottom inlet pipe the hell up. Please Keep Reading

 

You see, this can be easily done and have many more benefits than the current design;

 

1. Surface skimming to remove any oils from food and human hands alike.

2. Power outage. The water will not go lower than the standpipe

3. Create a rock scape around stand pipe to create that low profile, yet natural look.

 

The wheel should not be reinvented but re-evaluated. Brilliant design and your ideas have inspired my future work.

[Whys]

More of a visual from my idea.

 

That's the smart way to do it, but... complete submersion with no rockscape breaking the surface? Take a moment and think how that would look. .............FREAK'N AWESOME.

 

 

If no one else has mentioned it, moving that much water thru that much pipe with that much static head.... NOISE.

[Jaden1592]

Also to rain on parades - I saw a fox fish in the design - If you cannot break surface with rock then, I suggest you go to a local tide pool and watch the ocean surge up and over the boulders then down, revealing the drips of our ever expanding ocean.

 

 

The Mp-40 should have no problem in doing just that. Put on surge mode

 

cheers

[Jaden1592]

Actually, I finally get it. It's ZERO artificial profile. Now I'm excited.

 

 

The more I think on how you have those vertical pipes on the right, the more you convince me that this is doable. Are you going to use starphire glass perchance? I think frags has hit on it tho. How will you prevent surface scum?

 

edit: oh, but those powerheads... closed loop instead?

I hope that starphire glass was considered. Such a prestige glass - Would never want to sacrafice a DIY over flow for a run of the mill glass.

[Jaden1592]

That's the smart way to do it, but... complete submersion with no rockscape breaking the surface? Take a moment and think how that would look. .............FREAK'N AWESOME.

 

 

If no one else has mentioned it, moving that much water thru that much pipe with that much static head.... NOISE.

okay I see what you meant. Wouldn't you achieve the same effect as if you had the tank drilled. Sacrifices must be made it seems to me

 

I had already thought using a clear acrylic standpipe but it would be way too hard to maintain and you would still be able to see it. and all the algae accumulating in only a week or so.

[Whys]

...I suggest you go to a local tide pool and watch the ocean surge up and over the boulders then down, revealing the drips of our ever expanding ocean.

 

 

The Mp-40 should have no problem in doing just that. Put on surge mode

 

Now there is an excellent thought. But if the standpipe is low and submerged, why not raise and lower the entire waterline? The tide could literally go out and back in. Loving this!

[Jaden1592]

 

Now there is an excellent thought. But if the standpipe is low and submerged, why not raise and lower the entire waterline? The tide could literally go out and back in. Loving this!

Yes, another thought; As the water level goes to and fro there will be a change in suction from the standpipe. It is wise to adjust system to avoid "slurping" - If the water level changes too much, you may have noise complaints from house guests.

[Jaden1592]

If the idea of water level changing is prevalent, You must place a water sealed shroud around a lower stand pipe and let the highest level of water only enter the empty stand pipe shroud.

 

In theory this would allow the standpipe to take in water as the external water lowers. This should allow enough time for the aquarium to fill until the stand pipe NEEDS more water.

 

Thus creating a noise free environment. If you want to go up and down with the water, it is important to note that the return pump should be on an interval timer.

[pardopoz]

Just another idea, you could have one of the side panes of glass an inch or so shorter than the rest to act as an overflow into a tray at the base that then drains into your sump similar to the zero edge aquariums but only one edge of yours would have water flowing over it instead of all of them. It would take out all the complex plumbing and risk of floods that may prop up in your other designs.

 

That is a great great great idea!!! Will think about it.

 

 

[pardopoz]

If no one else has mentioned it, moving that much water thru that much pipe with that much static head.... NOISE.

 

I know...

luckily In my case noise will be downstairs...

[pardopoz]

Also to rain on parades - I saw a fox fish in the design - If you cannot break surface with rock then, I suggest you go to a local tide pool and watch the ocean surge up and over the boulders then down, revealing the drips of our ever expanding ocean.

 

 

The Mp-40 should have no problem in doing just that. Put on surge mode

 

cheers

 

My friend this has always been my backup plan... told like that, you make me feel like a minimalism-addicted-unable-to-see-real-beauty person!!! I'm getting convinced...

[ll_maynard_ll]

That is a great great great idea!!! Will think about it.

Its been a design I would like to do someday but have an upstream refugium overflowing into the display and share a pane of glass. Figured it would maintain the clean look you are going for.

[pardopoz]

Get the bottom inlet pipe the hell up.

 

ok. see attachments.

This is the way i should be doing this....right?

Do You see Anything out of place?

 

p.s. i'll have water dropping into overflow for 70cm.... will be noisy i guess... not good

 

p.p.s regarding power of pump. i will still need the same amount of power in my return pump as the previous design. Cause it doesn matters how long is your plumbing and how many turns it does. what it matters is the height you bring the water.

[Jaden1592]

ok. see attachments.

This is the way i should be doing this....right?

Do You see Anything out of place?

 

p.s. i'll have water dropping into overflow for 70cm.... will be noisy i guess... not good

 

p.p.s regarding power of pump. i will still need the same amount of power in my return pump as the previous design. Cause it doesn matters how long is your plumbing and how many turns it does. what it matters is the height you bring the water.

Question for you. Why is there two overflow pipes. One is taller than the other. Are you trying to achieve the effect of lowering and raising the water? This may not work.

 

If my idea with the shrouding and over flow is used and ends up not working. Then - you will be able to remove the shrouding and just settle for a PVC overflow. (Instead of drilling excess holes) *headache***

 

DO NOT DO YOUR DOUBLE OVERFLOW BECAUSE IT WILL NOT CHANGE WATER COLUMN HEIGHT.

 

Unless the return pump is timed correctly~ then there would be NO NEED FOR A DOUBLE OVERFLOW.

 

 

I will return with a design tonight that informs my idea more visually

[jservedio]

The solution to this problem would be to put the sump higher than the tank in another room. You would pump water OUT of the tank (from the bottom and then UP) and let it overflow BACK into the tank. This way if the pump went out, nothing would happen. Water can only be pumped uphill and flow downhill.

 

You wouldn't need any fancy engineering or devices that may break if the power goes out. In this case, if the power went out, NOTHING would happen. Here is a schematic in MSPAINT:

 

RED is the DRAIN from the Display Tank and BLUE is the Return. Water is pumped out of the display tank and overflows back in.

 

For the return, you would want the pipe to come as close to the surface as possible (between rocks or something to hide it) to make the back pressure as low as possible. Obviously, the turnover rate here would have to be fairly low, but you could also add a closed loop system for flow from beneath the tank. It is definitely possible and fairly easy to do.

[nibor]

This is a better idea as long as you can find somewhere to put the "sump" above the display. You could even put it on the next floor up. Just a few points:

 

The pumps we use do not work well (if at all) in suction. To make that work, you would need to put the pump below the water level of the display.

 

Also, when the power went out, the contents of the "sump" would all siphon back through the pumped line into the display. You would want to put the outlet of the pipe bringing water from the display near the surface of the "sump".

 

The height of the return in the display makes no difference. Think about it, the water level in the blue return will be at the same level as the display no matter what height it is in the display.

 

I put sump in quotation marks because a sump is always at the bottom of a circulation system, in this case the display is actually the sump.

 

Kudos jservedio.

 

Edit: if using an ATO, you would need to put it in the display.

[jservedio]

I would put an overflow on the "Sump" just like I would on a DT - this way if the power goes out it doesn't all drain away into the DT. It is basically just a Sump/DT in reverse.

 

+1 to having the pump below the tank - forgot they are TERRIBLE under vacuum!

 

Edit: Thanks for correcting me about making the pipe as high as possible in the DT - it won't matter because it is filled with water!

[Jaden1592]

Here it is.

[noone]

 

 

 

 

[Jaden1592]

 

 

 

 

The bottom overflow may become clogged. I like the inlet pipe though.

[noone]

Another idea

 

 

 

 

More info?... yes in this link http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920386

 

and more info here http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2554811

[Jaden1592]

If you are away from home for more than 15 minutes you could flood on accident.

 

Scenario - Hermit crab walks into overflow - becomes stuck then a Midas Blenny spits large rocks or shells into the overflow - eventually so much natural substances will block the pipe and the pump would never know, so it will never shut off. The sump pump WILL pump all of it's water into the display and flood the house with Nemo and maybe Dory.

[Jaden1592]

Go ahead do it. Just make sure the outflow pipes go higher than the tank to avoid flooding; Have a mesh net over the overflow and protect it further with porus rock. You must be ready to get arms all the way in the tank to move rocks in case of emergencies.

[Mr. Microscope]

The Reef Savvy Ghost Overflow is about an unobtrusive as you can get.

http://reefsavvy.com/ghost-overflow/