20 Long Ebay GU10 frag tank

[--chris--]

First page edit:

 

With the help of a lot of people here i set up a nice little prop system to trade/sell stuff i have and receive from other reefers. Below is the setup/discussion the led up too the build. Pics on page 3 of the final setup w/lights.

 

Im looking for ideas too keep the running cost of a frag tank to a minimum. My current plan is:

 

20 long with a DIY AIO.

-AIO will have a overflow section w/chaeto then a return section with a small pump (300sh GPH, 10 watts?)

-Tank has custom one piece glass top that cuts evaporation down to about 1/2 gallon a week in my 60 degree basement

 

Lighting:

I know LED will be my most efficient choice. Im thinking of using 10-12 ebay GU10 3x1 watt LED's (the 2RB:1CW variety). 10 of these would be 30 watts, 12 would be 36 watts.

 

One 3x1 warm white GU10 LED for the chaeto ball. 33-39 watts total lighting. Will 10-12 GU10's be enough? The "display" section of the tank will be around 20-22" long x 12" wide

 

 

Heat:

Well not much can be done about this cost. I need to warm it up, and at this size an electic heater is the only way. What about keeping the tank around 76? Bad idea? 100 watt heater x ---? How many hours a day is kind of a guess. When i hooked my kill-a-watt up to a 200 watt heater i used to keep Discus at 82-84 it was using about $20/month @ $0.11 kwh. Ill guess here, and say around $10-$12/month @ 78 degrees for this 20 long.

 

Water flow:

I have a koralia evo 750 (4.5 watt), I will probably need another. Call it 10 watts.

 

Skimmer:

-none, water changes & chaeto are sufficient since no fish/minimal CuC.

 

Sound pretty low impact (on my electrical bill)? Any ideas?

[Veng]

Are you trying to minimize the running cost of the tank, the total cost, or simply to use the least amount of energy possible? You will get very difference answers based upon what you want to do.

 

If you want lowest possible energy consumption (not cost) then you'll want a sun lit tank. If you want the lowest possible energy consumption excluding sunlight, you'll want some of the really high end LEDs run at low currents would give you a very low energy system, but would have very large start up costs.

 

If you're just going for overall cheapest total life cycle costs, that's a completely different ball game.

[--chris--]

The goal is to minimize the running costs of the tank while balancing the start up costs.

 

Im sure the newest CREE's run at half voltage would be very energy efficient, but how long would it take to earn that back in energy savings?

 

Like you mentioned, a sun lit tank would be a no brainier. If i had a spot in my house that it would work, i would go that route. However, i dont. The basement is good and empty though, but a little cooler than the rest of the house. I would put the 20L upstairs but my boy just started crawling, and walking is not far away. I dont want another hazard up stairs...plus the wife wants a new curio cabinet, so my empty space is being reserved anyways.

 

My biggest energy concern is the heater, which will be on a good bit with the low temp of the basement. What about foam insulation board on the back and side of the tank? Is glass a good insulator on its own?

[Veng]

If a 200W heater were to run 24/7 it would cost you ~16$ a month @ 0.11kw/hr. An LED setup will run 14 hours max and be 60W for really bright lighting or 3$/month. The other 20W of pumps and power heads and whatever would run you 2$ per month. Or all said around 20$/month. It's not a significant cost compared to everything else (like coral) you'll want to put in it. If you are really worried about the cost of 20$ per month, I'd skip the tank.

[--chris--]

Hmmm...i wonder why my kill-a-watt said the heater was around $20-$21 when i plugged it in last time?

 

Technology really makes me lazy. I can see on paper how a 200 watt 24/7 is $20, and there is no way it ran 24/7. I didn't even question it when i seen it.

 

Ill run the numbers again tonight when I get home, i remember it being significantly more than $20/month.

[--chris--]

Yep, im not sure why i was thinking it would be a significant bump to my bill.

 

Now im considering using a 65 gallon drum i have as a sump to add as much water volume as i can. Fitting it will be difficult though, unless i built a rack/stand to go over the top of the barrel to use up more vertical space.

 

Im still working this out in my head as you can see.

[Belac]

If you need more power heads they have cheap (6$ for a 98gph and lessthen 10 for the 200gph) pond pumps at harborfreight. I have been runnign them in my salt tank since day one. Venge has got some now too. Suprsingly robust little buggers. Not the best lifting an head to hight at good power but they are decent at it.

[Reeftech]

Imo frag/prop tanks make money.Sell a few frags and you will pay for your monthly costs.

[--chris--]

Adding an extra 65 gallons (and stepping up the whole things complexity a notch) worth it in terms of potential growth? I know thats always been the argument with volume...more = stability.

 

But TBH, after seeing some nanos on here and other sites that are monitored by Apex's and Reefkeepers i must say...i cant always pick which chart belongs to a 90 gallon and which chart belongs to a 20 gallon.

[Reeftech]

A nano is considered more for the experienced and or dedicated.

[Reeftech]

You should check with badfish reef systems for the aio.

[danimal1211]

Oops wrong thread.

[--chris--]

You should check with badfish reef systems for the aio.

 

Ive been thinking about it. If i go with AIO, i wont bother making it look nice. Its going in my basement, a falsewall is just to hide equipment. The benefit of a surface skimmer would be nice, but if you keep the surface agitated enough its not really needed on a small tank like this.

 

I still may add in that large barrel for a sump with LR and chaeto. On the fence about that.

 

Im almost certain i will mount the 20 long to the wall with some 1/4" flat steel welded up with braces (then a 2x12 run across the braces as the horizontal support...dont know yet, working out the details). It might go above my current water storage barrel and mixing barrel to save floor space.

 

Ive been looking at a thread on a whole different subject on a whole different topic. One of the posters lives in the Amsterdam where real estate is taxed on frontage, so many propertys are long and narrow to reduce the taxable property. There are so many amazing, space saving ideas in that thread. Ill be stealing a few...

[Reeftech]

Can you link to that thread?I love space saving as long as it looks good.

[--chris--]

There are all sorts of good ideas spread throughout this one...the guy im referring to posted in there somewhere.

 

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39367

 

edit: I ordered some ebay GU10 LED's two weeks ago for some shop lighting here at work. I bought the 9 watt, warm white....wow! Im 100% certain those will work for this purpose. Ill be using the 3 watt 2RB:1WW when it comes time to order.

[Veng]

I wouldn't add a sump that's three times the display volume, that's a bit crazy.

 

If you want to make a cheap sump, go with rubber maid plastic container. Go for something around 20 gallons.

[Belac]

Ive been thinking about it. If i go with AIO, i wont bother making it look nice. Its going in my basement, a falsewall is just to hide equipment. The benefit of a surface skimmer would be nice, but if you keep the surface agitated enough its not really needed on a small tank like this.

 

Have you seen the hob mod that gives the hob the ablity to skim the surface into your filter media? I am about to the point I am going ot put one on my sump the surface down there gets nasty.

[Reeftech]

I have heard disasters about the rubbermaids getting weak and leaking so just double up and go with 2.

 

I have also seen media holders made from the small 3 drawer organizers.

[--chris--]

It has begun. I cleaned it up last week, been letting it dry out. I painted it yesterday, and today im working on the AIO. Pics later. Light is TBD. I want to try the GU10's, but if i go that route ill need to ditch the glass top as its kind of an unknown with LED's right now.

 

Ditching glass top = more evap (no big deal, im making space for a ATO in one chamber) but it also equals more heating of the water.

[Reeftech]

I dont think you really need to worry about heating the top off water.It will get warm by the surrounding water.Also it wont e adding much volume at a time so the tank wont notice the difference.

[--chris--]

Lol, no not the top off water.

 

Heating the tank. Using a glass top like I have cut the heater usage by about a third when I compared them via the kill a watt.

 

Also, the ebay gu10s won't ship out till atleast feb 18th...so it would be march before I could get them. I've got good live rock from an old system and frags ready 2 go in....so I'm not sure I'm willing to wait till then.

[Julian_blnc]

Par 38 bulbs

[Evanski9]

Dude 10g tank.

 

Ac70 with badfish surface skimmer and media rack. Fill with poly pad and live rock.

I'd do a 50watt heater.

1 mj1200 with the nozzle pointing at the bottom and fill with frags

 

Then for lighting gu10 or aqua styles build and boom cheapest to build and cheapest to run.

 

 

 

Then you move product like a sum of a b!tch.

 

 

 

Instant mula.

Invest in medium cost corals that have high to medium growth rates.

 

 

Holla if you wanna make a dollar.

 

[Reeftech]

If i holla twice will i get 2 bucks?

 

HOLLA HOLLA!

[Evanski9]

Hills holla gotta get tht dollar