F'n Ich.... dosing copper in QT

[jack1978]

Well, Ben, I know you and I discussed the slightly differing dosages recommended by Seachem on one of my threads (that my bottle says 2 drops per gallon, then repeat 48 hrs later, which equals 4 drops per gallon, which is ABOUT the same as the 2 ml per gallon mentioned on seachem's site). But if we simply follow the directions on Seachem's site (idk why they're slightly diff than the ones on my bottle), they say:

 

If the bottle has a dropper cap, use 20 drops (1 mL) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat.

 

So that's 40 drops total per 10.5 gallons, which is 19.05 drops (we'll call it 19 drops) for Jack's 5 gallon water change. Now, idk how many "drops" are in a mL, but Seachem says 20 drops, when using their dropper cap.

 

Hey Gil

I'm running Cupramine which states the measurements Ben gave. Different than what you're using I guess.

[theGil]

Final concentration is 2mL per 40L (10.5g). There is about 16 drops per mL, so 32 drops per 10.5g, and that's 3.05 drops per gallon.

 

 

Hey Gil

I'm running Cupramine which states the measurements Ben gave. Different than what you're using I guess.

 

 

No, I'm talking about Seachem Cupramine, too! Haha. So, to which of Ben's measurements are you referring? The 2 mL per 40 L (10.5 gallons)? I agree that those are the directions given by Seachem. But Seachem says there are 20 drops in 1 mL of Cupramine, not 16 drops.

 

See their Directions at the bottom of the Cupramine page:

 

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

 

 

What does your bottle of Cupramine say, Jack?

[jedimasterben]

I love how consistent Seachem is.

[jack1978]

No, I'm talking about Seachem Cupramine, too! Haha. So, to which of Ben's measurements are you referring? The 2 mL per 40 L (10.5 gallons)? I agree that those are the directions given by Seachem. But Seachem says there are 20 drops in 1 mL of Cupramine, not 16 drops.

 

See their Directions at the bottom of the Cupramine page:

 

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

 

 

What does your bottle of Cupramine say, Jack?

 

Gil,

Same as Ben stated......16 drops per 10.5 gal.

I'll have to check the site ...classic!

 

 

I love how consistent Seachem is.

 

 

.....thanks for everyone's help!

 

I love how consistent Seachem is.

 

 

.....thanks for everyone's help!

[jack1978]

After a little over the two week mark of my display tank being fish-less I noticed little white things all over my glass. Super small. Like pencil point small. Almost spider like in shape.

Small dot with what looks like legs coming out and too small to get a picture of. Is the ich parasite visible to the naked eye....or does it resemble that? Weird.

[jack1978]

You are seeing copepods on the glass. You either just happen to have a bloom of them, or your fish were eating them and now they are reproducing without being eaten. Copepods are good.

 

The ich parasite is too small to see with the naked eye.

 

Cool. They don't seem to move though....just sit on the glass all day. Are they lazy by nature?

Thanks,

 

Jack

[jack1978]

Good deal! Keep us updated.

 

UPDATE:

23 days in at full strength. All fish look and act fantastic.

Question is...should I lower the copper level or keep it at full strength for the remaining 3 weeks?

Thanks,

 

Jack

[jedimasterben]

I'd take it down now. Any ich in the QT system is 100% dead. Woohoo!!

[theGil]

Isn't 14 days the prescribed amount of time at full strength for Cupramine?

[jedimasterben]

Isn't 14 days the prescribed amount of time at full strength for Cupramine?

14-21, with 21 being preferable. Makes sure that all of the parasites are destroyed.

[jack1978]

I'd take it down now. Any ich in the QT system is 100% dead. Woohoo!!

 

 

 

Thanks for the help!

[theGil]

14-21, with 21 being preferable. Makes sure that all of the parasites are destroyed.

 

 

Cupramine doesn't kill ich during the tomont stage, which generally lasts 7-28 days, and could last longer. This is when the ich is sitting dormant on the substrate. Stopping treatment early means your fish are just going to get reinfected when the tomonts hatch.

 

Ugh

 

I followed the damned directions on the bottle, i.e., "Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days." And you're saying that that may not have killed off the ich?! Freak... Do you think I should bring the copper back up to 0.5 mg/L? The fallow period on my DT still has another 4-5 weeks to go anyway, so it's not like the fish are leaving the QT anytime soon. Although, I was enjoying NOT having to do 5g water changes everyday on my 20g QT, due to the inactive bio filtration during copper treatment. But, I'd hate to go through this ALL OVER AGAIN down the road. What do you guys recommend? Does it help that, during the 14 days, my QT was bare bottom with PVC and a plastic barnacle decoration, i.e., no substrate?

[jedimasterben]

Ugh

 

I followed the damned directions on the bottle, i.e., "Final copper concentration is 0.5 mg/L (0.25 mg/L in freshwater). Leave at this concentration for 14 days." And you're saying that that may not have killed off the ich?! Freak... Do you think I should bring the copper back up to 0.5 mg/L? The fallow period on my DT still has another 4-5 weeks to go anyway, so it's not like the fish are leaving the QT anytime soon. Although, I was enjoying NOT having to do 5g water changes everyday on my 20g QT, due to the inactive bio filtration during copper treatment. But, I'd hate to go through this ALL OVER AGAIN down the road. What do you guys recommend? Does it help that, during the 14 days, my QT was bare bottom with PVC and a plastic barnacle decoration, i.e., no substrate?

I've never had an issue with doing two weeks on sensitive fish like tangs or angels, but when I can, I do three.

 

Why is your biofilter inactive? Cupramine doesn't damage it. Have you been finding ammonia? I'd grab a Seachem Ammonia Alert hanger-thing and stick on the side of the QT tank. I have one for any and all QT tanks I have and I do a water change every Sunday and if I find more than 0.05ppm ammonia for more than an hour.

[theGil]

I've never had an issue with doing two weeks on sensitive fish like tangs or angels, but when I can, I do three.

 

Why is your biofilter inactive? Cupramine doesn't damage it. Have you been finding ammonia? I'd grab a Seachem Ammonia Alert hanger-thing and stick on the side of the QT tank. I have one for any and all QT tanks I have and I do a water change every Sunday and if I find more than 0.05ppm ammonia for more than an hour.

Guess what I noticed today. My Lemonpeel and one of my Clowns flashing against the PVC pipe in the QT. Awesome :/

I guess 2 wks was NOT enough. Thanks, Seachem. Now I'm starting ALL OVER AGAIN. Hello, day one of Cupramine. FML.

 

Ben, I thought that Cupramine makes the bio filter inactive during medication. And my API ammonia and nitrate test kits agreed, i.e., ammonia readings and no nitrate readings. Btw, I'm using the biomax that came w my AC70. Seeded my BIO-Spira.

 

However, after reading the following from the Cupramine FAQ, AND paying more attention, I'm reminded that my ammonia test kit might not be accurate when using Cupramine. What do you think, Ben? I do have an unused Ammonia Alert, so I think I'll install it and see what it says.

 

Seachem:

 

Q: Will the Cupramine kill nitrifying bacteria in the filter? I used it to treat the parasite problem in a 20g quarantine tank. Three days later, I tested the ammonia level, and it was about 0.5 ppm. The copper level was about 0.25 ppm, and the nitrite level was about 0ppm.

 

A: Cupramine may slightly retard the bacteria but overall it is safe to use and won't adversely affect the nitrifying bacteria. The reading of ammonia you're getting is most likely a false reading because Cupramine contains an organic amine which is very similar to ammonia in structure and the test kit is likely not able to distinguish between the two. You could try our MultiTest: Free and Total Ammonia test which does not have this issue and will not give a false positive... or you can use our Ammonia Alert which works on the same principal and will show only free ammonia.

[jedimasterben]

Guess what I noticed today. My Lemonpeel and one of my Clowns flashing against the PVC pipe in the QT. Awesome :/

I guess 2 wks was NOT enough. Thanks, Seachem. Now I'm starting ALL OVER AGAIN. Hello, day one of Cupramine. FML.

Ben, I thought that Cupramine makes the bio filter inactive during medication. And my API ammonia and nitrate test kits agreed, i.e., ammonia readings and no nitrate readings. Btw, I'm using the biomax that came w my AC70. Seeded my BIO-Spira.

However, after reading the following from the Cupramine FAQ, AND paying more attention, I'm reminded that my ammonia test kit might not be accurate when using Cupramine. What do you think, Ben? I do have an unused Ammonia Alert, so I think I'll install it and see what it says.

Seachem:

Q: Will the Cupramine kill nitrifying bacteria in the filter? I used it to treat the parasite problem in a 20g quarantine tank. Three days later, I tested the ammonia level, and it was about 0.5 ppm. The copper level was about 0.25 ppm, and the nitrite level was about 0ppm.

A: Cupramine may slightly retard the bacteria but overall it is safe to use and won't adversely affect the nitrifying bacteria. The reading of ammonia you're getting is most likely a false reading because Cupramine contains an organic amine which is very similar to ammonia in structure and the test kit is likely not able to distinguish between the two. You could try our MultiTest: Free and Total Ammonia test which does not have this issue and will not give a false positive... or you can use our Ammonia Alert which works on the same principal and will show only free ammonia.

 

I've had the same thing happen before. Luckily I keep several QT tanks with different fish in each, so if it happens to one, it doesn't affect the others.

[jack1978]

UPDATE:

After 12 weeks in quarantine all fish are back in the DT! They've now been in the DT for two weeks and show zero signs of ich. Unfortunately I lost my pair of clowns in the process......not in quarantine, before I got the QT set up. I'm picking up a new pair tomorrow that are booked for a two week stay in quarantine.

-Big thanks to all that chimed in to help with this (especially JMB)

[Blubbernaut]

12 weeks?! Lord, if my fish get ich and can't fight it off themselves, they're screwed!