wolf eel

[winnker]

has anyone kept a wolf eel? I have one and can't seem to find much info on them. if anyone has any that would help please let me know.

[AReeferIsExpensive]

too small for a nano

[mineralrock]

Well, they're bastards....I've been bitten by them and snowflakes numerous times...Mostly they're pretty shy i guess. They eat prepared meaty foods, crustaceans, snails and URCHINS. They also become terribly ugly and a pale gray and grow a whopping 6 feet long....

 

good luck compadre.

[winnker]

ok, well I found out it is a goby, and it gets only 1'6". its not a green moray. but I don't know how they are with tank mates, anything. I have it in a tank with a big pencil urchin, and 2 pin cushions and an arrow crab and it leaves them alone. but it also eats 3 silversides a day whole. it won't eat anything else. it got spoiled. it spits anything else out.

 

do they even have teeth? I don't know if they retract or anything cuz it swallows fish whole. but it did eat an anenome crab. well the crabs with anenome's on there backs. but anyhow, the most I can find on them is like liveaquaria.com I mean have u found any sites with any info?

[just dave]

It's a dottyback.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-04/hcs3/index.htm

[winnker]

yes thats what it is thanks

[winnker]

thanks that was very much a big help.

[mineralrock]

good to know!

[skylsdale]

That's not a wolf eel. This is a wolf eel:

 

 

 

[winnker]

actually, they both are wolf eel's just the one that I have is a dottyback. but has the same common name. read the article that is posted up above. it will explain it.

[skylsdale]

This thread is the EXACT reason why people should stop relying so much on common names and take an extra few seconds to find out the actual species name of a fish.

[DitchPlains]

Either way its an ugly bugger, looks very adapted for its enviroment though, probably an amazing creature to see in the wild, but not something I would want in my tank, be too afraid I'd loose a finger or worse. I don't really see the facination with agressive tanks, they always seem like their maintained by those some people who when they were kids wanted Pirrahnas, and poisinous spiders for pets....creepy pyscho killers...lol I"m just teasing...:

 

Get yourself a Giant Moray while your at it, put it in a 2.5 minibow and invite people over for some halloween tricks, cover it with a paper or cardboard box, and dare them to feel around inside.

[Max]

Thats a face for radio.

[winnker]

actually, if I could have a dream tank it would have a manta ray in it

[DitchPlains]

Some things are too beautiful for captivity!

[winnker]

I Know but I want one and I found a place online that sells them lol

now I Have to get the tank hehehe

[DitchPlains]

Manta's were once on the endangered species list, personally I think that's a very immoral and selfish approach. I honestly hope you don't get either! Try being a little more conscienscious about your purchases instead of just acting like a baby with your "I got to have it now mommy" atttiude!

[Undertheradar]

You know what would be funny? A market demand for these "Manta Rays". This would spawn a whole market of people wanting manta ray babies if they were available, right? Yet, no matter who you are...at one point...you would have to let it go. Now...wouldnt that actually boost the manta population? And there would be commercial efforts to produce more mantas. Only reason I say this is that on the flip side, I know that there are a few species of African Cichlids that the locals have whiped out and only exist in captivity. They are popular fish however, so on the good side, hobbyists are breeding the fish to eventually get reintroduced to the wild.

[skylsdale]

hobbyists are breeding the fish to eventually get reintroduced to the wild.

 

The flip side is that that captive bred populations become so quickly removed from the wild in some of their behaviors that it would become next to impossible to re-establish them back in the wild. National fish hatcheries, for example: less than 4% of all trout and salmon released into the wild survive the following year. Because they are used to feeding on the surface (prepared pellets, etc.), don't have to fear predation because of bird netting that protects captive pools, etc...they are quickly picked off once they hit wild streams and lakes.

 

As for manta rays, the only people stupid enough to buy them wouldn't really know or care to take care of them properly, and I would bet that 99.0% of them would die before they even got close to big enough to take out of the tank.

[DitchPlains]

Thank you, for reasserting my point, its a ridiculous obession, this constant need in this hobby to "just have something, just because you want to," you have to think beyond the scope of your simple little exsistance and your tank. Its important to realise that there is a world out there. Wild animals that were once or are on the endagered species list, should be a simple, " no question, off limits." Manta's can grow to be a gigantic species, and should only left to funded aquarums where people can appreciate these beautiful creatures in order to protect and help these beautiful them survive another milenium. I just can't belive there is some bunch of fools out there selling them to the public. Really pisses me off this type of consumerism without responsibilty.

[Undertheradar]

Well, Im sure many factors go into the captive rearing of each species...much of it depending on the species itself. I wasnt saying it would be a good idea, nor probable, that people would want mantas as pets, but the standpoint that commercial demand can help certain species rather than harm...

 

Just imagine...those few who have 10,000gallon tanks in their homes...raising manta fry...sunfish fry...etc...as a hobby...but knowing that eventually their pet would get released back into the wild. It would offer the chance to observe these awesome animals up close, to learn more about them, and then release it into the wild population at a size it might not even make it to if it were left in nature to fend for itself since day 1. As for acclimation, it would depend on the species. The problems mentioned with regards to trout do not apply to mantas. Mantas are plankton feeders with no known perdators beyond humans. Releasing one of these as a juvi into the wild would be easy. Raising it...providing it with enough plankton to get it up to say...12"...well, that would require some dedication...but far from impossible.

 

All the money that people can pay for a wild specimen can really wake up a local government into saying "hey, we can make alot of money here, but we need to help out".

 

In a free market society, commercial demand would say that if a species is in demand, and the wild does not have a sustainable supply of the demanded species, captive breeding becomes the goal, and often ends up producing the species with less cost than importing the wild specimens. Clownfish, African Cichlids, Shrimp, etc... Healthier stock for us, less impact on the wild...in fact...help (the initial demand for the species creates more attantion to preserving it). But, the demand has to be there in the first place.

 

It's all supply and demand people. Can you imagine the cost of buying a manta? It would be in the thousands! That alone would keep the idiots who 'want it just to have it' away. Only those capable and knowing would try it. I think the consumerism of the manta would be very similar to the asian arrowanna. A fish that was endangered (still requires a permit for import), yet highly prized for it's traditional 'good luck' value. Hobbyists became more involved and now have figured out how to breed their own in large ponds. The cost of this fish can make it very expensive, and therefore keeps away the 'idiots'. Dragonfish of rare strains can be in the 5, sometimes 6 figures $US, and most are in the thousands. The extra attention to the species, and it's initial low population is what resuted in it's eventual comeback. Now captive rearing provides a sustainable population for hobbyists (something that took a long time to figure out), and has contributed to the restocking of wild populations (arrowannas are not easily domesticated and make good reintroductions).

 

I used to raise electric eels and arapimas to turn around and sell to zoos, and 'pimas require a CITES permit because they are endangered. By raising the pimas I gave them a better chance then they would get in the wild...and now the researchers can study them w/o needing to get a full grown one from the wild.

[DitchPlains]

Wow were to begin with your misinformed opinion. Let's see ok to being with, where in human history is as you say "commercial demand can help certain species rather than harm..." Consumerism hasn't done a damn thing for the environment, and that is just a copout to say it does, just because we're breeding clowns and such in captivity, you show me where captive raised clowns are being re-released successfully back into the wild?? LOL its hysterical that you buy into this garbage viewpoint that commercialism is beneficial somehow to the natural world...lol ask any of the indigenous people of the Bikini Atoll or perhaps The Philippines now that they have tons of cases of Cyanide poisoned children from eating fish that was poisoned in the hopes of gaining a few precious uneatable fish for westerners fish tanks???

 

Your second point, "Just imagine...those few who have 10,000gallon tanks in their homes...raising manta fry...sunfish fry...etc...as a hobby...but knowing that eventually their pet would get released back into the wild. It would offer the chance to observe these awesome animals up close, to learn more about them," Ok you share with me the millionaire with a 10,000 gallon tank that has open houses for the poor indigenous people from whence the Manta was captured so they can learn to protect it, and make a difference. Either way what your proposing is not only giving these people a livelihood, but one that's not productive to them for their future or for us as consumers.

 

The best thing is to leave the Mantas in the ocean along with whales, and sharks, they don't belong in captivity, that’s just an obvious thing to me, I think there is so much hubris and lack of humility in the world...it’s kinda scary.

 

Eels are not Mantas and trying to make that leap is asinine at best.

[Undertheradar]

Misinformed? Check my profile. I dont need to argue with you. The people in my field can back me up.

 

Heres the simple breakdown: Demand for fish results in increased attention given to the species now that conservation is in the best interest for all. If a fish becomes profitable, that money helps it's own survival. The blanket statement that consumerism is bad for the environment is dead wrong. Take the logging industry as an example. Now for every tree cut down, 2 are planted. We have a sustainable supply thanks to the industries own realization that it needs to conserve to remain in business. Herring on the US pacific coast, another prime example.

 

Consumerism hasnt helped? If that is what you believe then you are in the wrong hobby buddy. Why keep fish and corals if you think we are all idiots for keeping specimens that were near impossible to keep just a decade ago?...endangered or not? (Its all living after all, NTM corals as a whole are in peril) What, do you think coral fragging and clam farming didnt result from some realization that the demand exeeded the wild's capabilities? And although clownfish being captive spawned and sold doesnt mean they are being reintroduced, the shift of demand from wild collecting to captive raised takes the pressure off wild populations. Trout...why would they continue to produce them if they had such a small chance of survival? Maybe their chances being wild arent much better. Dont know, but I could easily find out.

 

People arent as wreckless as they once were. Responsible management of natural populations has resulted in an economy in it's own right.

 

As far as your specific points: The cyanide. Collectors now realize that this is not the best way. Consumers wont buy fish that have been collected in this manner. The US demand for fish has been fed with alternatives, and the money has cast a negative vote for cyanide.

 

On the second thing about the millionaire and the poor people...I dont even know what you are trying to say...your argument does not appear to be logical. I dont know why what you ask for is important. Check out reef central...there are quite a few who set up very large tanks for sharks and the like...they are not millionaires. Why anyone beyond the hobbyist and scientist would need to observe these creatures is beyond me...and FWIW, mantas are an open water fish...so I dont get it.

[DitchPlains]

Wow again I retort, your background, I'm not going to even waste my time looking at your porfile your lack of logical arguments is validity enough for my position!

 

Let's beign shall we?

"Demand for fish results in increased attention given to the species now that conservation is in the best interest for all." Perfect example of how wrong you are is Atlantic Salmon which no longer exsist in the wild and are now farm raised because of such a high demand to eat them, and now they are fed foul foods that are loaded with mercury and toxins, yet people continue to buy them....shows what savy consumers do, they don't read or research anything they just buy, based on hype and newsmedia.

 

Point number two of yours,

 

"Take the logging industry as an example. Now for every tree cut down, 2 are planted. We have a sustainable supply thanks to the industries own realization that it needs to conserve to remain in business." I assuming the logging industry realized this error after years of destroying forests home to wild birds such as they are trying to turn Canada's Abboreal Forrest into logging territory now. They are going to destroy Northamerica's largest breeding ground for wild birds from Canada to Florida. Such wild species such as finches, warblers etc.. will all be lost if this happens. Thank god conscienscious people are trying to preserve and keep it from your so called healthy consumerism.

 

Your third point.

 

" And although clownfish being captive spawned and sold doesnt mean they are being reintroduced, the shift of demand from wild collecting to captive raised takes the pressure off wild populations." Where is this so called "doesn't mean they aren't being introduced?" The reality is you can still buy Wild Captured species right now? The pressure maybe reduced but its not that signficant if you consider the schmucks who kill numerous species in their attempts of keeping everything and anything in their tansk regardless if the species can cohabtait.. A perfect example is you and winnker trying or advocating keeping Mantas in a home tank. Isn't it funny how things come fully circle? (Amphisbaena)

 

Oh Lastly, you show me someone with a 10,000 gallon home tank that doesn't have 15 or 20 thousand dollars to just blow on a fish tank. Can you even imagine how big of a tank that is or do you just talk out of your ass normally?

[Undertheradar]

I will reply, but in hopes that you discontinue your borderline offensive attitude. Your dismissive and narrow-minded attitude makes me wonder if you are even worth talking to.

 

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_...700g_tank_1.php

I think 1700g would be enough for a supposed 'manta'. And this guy is no millionaire...Beyond that, trust me, the $$ is there. I once saw a young newlywed drop $10,000 in a heartbeat (literally about 5 minutes) on a 300gallon reef that she wanted moved from the LFS to her home along with weekly care for it provided by the LFS. In one of the vats not being shown to the public at the Shedd there is a 6+foot grouper that was taken in from a guys home basement tank!!! And FWIW, large swim tanks do not cost as much per gallon as reefs. The lighting can be lower, no live rock, simpler filtration, etc.

Not so long ago, many of the corals and critters that we keep in our aquariums were near impossible to because we didnt understand them. The hobby has led to better research and our current ability to keep a captive coral reef. In the future, Im sure their will be more developments that will allow people to keep anything they want in an aquarium...mantas included. If you are against this, then you shouldnt be a reefer. Ever consider how many corals have died over the years due to trial and error? That should make you want to quit, right? If you are so bent on consumerism being bad for the environment, you need to send your reef to me....that way you wont have to think about all the mistakes that people have made trying to get it right...or your own.

It is a tragedy about the salmon, and all the other species that have been endangered due to overfishing and consumerism in the past, but you will see, times are changing. We have learned from out mistakes. Conservation is a newly profitable industry. And that extra $300 I pay for a CITES permit to go with the 'paima goes where? To CITES and future conservation. When you buy wild fish you are greasing the palms of people who will look out for the future of their livelyhood.

As for the salmon, shame, but that is the past...not the future. People were careless, and we realized too late. That hard lesson has taught us to be more careful in the future...so the benefit is that we are learning from our mistakes.

As for the canadian forest, I dont see how there will be a problem as long as the loggers are responsible as they are now. They dont cut down everything, just select trees, and then they replant.

You wrote>>>"Where is this so called "doesn't mean they aren't being introduced?"<<< I dont know where, I never wrote that.

 

I dont think keeping a manta at home would be a good idea for winnker right now, but some day....as long as the economy makes conservation a profitable alternative to the previous snatch&grab. It is in conservation's best interest to allow a demand for what they are protecting....heck, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot...you might want to be less critical next time, as you might note that the 'manta' winnker is talking about is perhaps not a manta ray. Mantas are over 4feet (length and width) at birth. I wouldnt want to ship that!!!! I am assuming that the species he is talkking about is another type...not a manta. Perhaps if you back off for a moment, winnker can provide us with more info, or even a web link to the place he saw it. A true manta would need a tank the size of a house!