THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

September 13, 2012

And a Last Set of Pictures of Fish from Dr. Sanjay Joshi

I think I posted enough of them, so this is the last set, at least for a while.

And my favorite so far:

If you want to see more of the Fish in his collection go to his FB page for which the Link is:

http://www.facebook.com/sanjay.joshi.792/photos

Albert

Edited September 13, 2012 by albertthiel

September 13, 2012

That looks like a fury mushroom to me a Discosoma species maybe.

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to get better close up pictures, but it's very hard because it pulls back into the rocks and hides. This is the most extended I have seen it in the last two days, and when I get to close, it'll hide more. Normally it looks very dull, but since it's so dark, I have to use the flash, and that's what makes it appear green around the tips. I wish I could see if it has a pink mouth. Yes, that is more of it in the crevice of higher rocks to the left.

It would be a miracle if it's really that same anemone, hiding from sight for almost a year. I just cleaned up the tank and defeated the plant that was all over the rocks a few months ago. It was nowhere to be seen. I don't know what else it could possibly be though. The nem I had was never too colorful either, just a whitish yellow, but I liked it. It was about 3.5" and this looks to be about 2.5" or so, but it's not fully extended either. Here is a picture taken in April 2011 of the mini carpet I had, my LEDs are quite bright, so it looks paper white instead of yellow/white, but you get the idea:

One thing that confuses me, the picture that shows the nem I had, shows a "fringe like" appearance around the outside. In the picture of the mystery one, the edges look more bubbly. Do you see what I mean? Could it still be the same and it just looks different in the pictures? This is something I certainly never expected! I just can't believe it could be that nem, but hmmm what could it be....

It'll be some work, but I'm thinking about moving the rock and trying to get it out of there. I'll post more pictures when I get them.

That picture of the red fish looking out of the acro is so neat! What is the coral in your tank shown in the very last picture? It looks like a hairy cap coral to me, very interesting, and I like it! Is it some sort of gorgonian?

Thanks again,

Shayna

September 13, 2012

That looks like a fury mushroom to me a Discosoma species maybe.

Hmmm maybe. I can't think of any mushrooms I have that would look like that and be that big (even if they were faded out) but it's possible something hitch hiked in that I didn't know about. I haven't recently added any live rock, only frags, something that big couldn't have hid on.

I'm going to have to get it out of there and get a good look at it. The curiousity is getting to me.

September 13, 2012

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to get better close up pictures, but it's very hard because it pulls back into the rocks and hides. This is the most extended I have seen it in the last two days, and when I get to close, it'll hide more. Normally it looks very dull, but since it's so dark, I have to use the flash, and that's what makes it appear green around the tips. I wish I could see if it has a pink mouth. Yes, that is more of it in the crevice of higher rocks to the left.

It would be a miracle if it's really that same anemone, hiding from sight for almost a year. I just cleaned up the tank and defeated the plant that was all over the rocks a few months ago. It was nowhere to be seen. I don't know what else it could possibly be though. The nem I had was never too colorful either, just a whitish yellow, but I liked it. It was about 3.5" and this looks to be about 2.5" or so, but it's not fully extended either. Here is a picture taken in April 2011 of the mini carpet I had, my LEDs are quite bright, so it looks paper white instead of yellow/white, but you get the idea:

One thing that confuses me, the picture that shows the nem I had, shows a "fringe like" appearance around the outside. In the picture of the mystery one, the edges look more bubbly. Do you see what I mean? Could it still be the same and it just looks different in the pictures? This is something I certainly never expected! I just can't believe it could be that nem, but hmmm what could it be....

It'll be some work, but I'm thinking about moving the rock and trying to get it out of there. I'll post more pictures when I get them.

That picture of the red fish looking out of the acro is so neat! What is the coral in your tank shown in the very last picture? It looks like a hairy cap coral to me, very interesting, and I like it! Is it some sort of gorgonian?

Thanks again,

Shayna

Shayna:

Let me look at those pictures somewhat more and see what I can come up with ...

What is shown in the picture of what you showed for last year and what I see in the one you are asking an ID for are quite different indeed and do not look like they are the same life forms.

The one in the older picture looks like a Mushroom type as Les pointed out, but to me it looks like a Rhodactis and if you look at the following set of images and scroll down you will see one that looks just about identical:

http://tinyurl.com/9hks5xa

The one in the newer pictures looks more like an anemone, but as I said given that it is not close up it is hard to say so thank you for trying to get a closer shot of it and I think then we'll be able to figure it out and come up with an ID.

Note that due to the lack of lighting when it was hiding, it may have expelled its zooxantellae and developed new ones of lesser color, hence what it looks like now.

Maxi-mini and Mini-mini's come in a whole lot of forms and appearances so they may still be the same but just as you say I cannot see a mouth either in that picture and if it is that nem you had it should have that mouth opening.

I'll look at what you sent more closely and get back to you and also look forward to the picture you are going to try to take.

On the Red Fish:I posted two of them in the last two pages so I am not sure which one you are referring to.

Albert

That looks like a fury mushroom to me a Discosoma species maybe.

Les take a look at :

http://tinyurl.com/9hks5xa

and scroll down and you will see what looks like the older picture that was posted which is identified as a Rhodactis spp.

I am waiting for the more close up picture of what is there now to try and figure out what it is, but it does look more like an anemone to me than a type of Hairy Mushroom.

Albert

Hmmm maybe. I can't think of any mushrooms I have that would look like that and be that big (even if they were faded out) but it's possible something hitch hiked in that I didn't know about. I haven't recently added any live rock, only frags, something that big couldn't have hid on.

I'm going to have to get it out of there and get a good look at it. The curiousity is getting to me.

If you take it out and put it in a small vessel and then take a picture we might see more, but when you do so it may shrivel up so you may want to take your pictures before taking it out.

And yes my curiosity is at its peak now as well : - )

Thanks

Albert

Edited September 13, 2012 by albertthiel

September 13, 2012

Hmmm maybe. I can't think of any mushrooms I have that would look like that and be that big (even if they were faded out) but it's possible something hitch hiked in that I didn't know about. I haven't recently added any live rock, only frags, something that big couldn't have hid on.

I'm going to have to get it out of there and get a good look at it. The curiousity is getting to me.

Below is a link to mini carpet anemone pictures:

http://tinyurl.com/9zrqwds

Have a look and check whether you recognize the one you originally bought, if it was a mini-carpet indeed.

Let's make sure that what you originally got was a mini carpet indeed or some other form in mini anemone.

Let me know will you.

Albert

September 13, 2012

Blue LED 3 Watt over my Tank

As you may have read in previous posts, I have 1 Blue LED over my tank, and although it is more than likely not doing much in terms of delivering a nanometer wavelength that is doing much for my corals (at least I was told so as I am not knowledgeable about LED's), what I do notice is that after it has been on for a number of hours, my corals are extended more than they used to be.

I am not saying that the 3 Watt LED is the reason for the corals' appearance, I just thought I would post a few pictures of what some look like after that light and the others have been on for about 7 hours now.

Also even though I have 2 100 watt equivalent CFT (CFL) lights over the tank, the blue from the LED is still visible.

As a test I am going to not switch it on tomorrow and see how the coral extension is when the LED is not in use. Should be interesting.

Albert

September 13, 2012

Informational : Coral reefs grow quickly in 'muddy' Waters

Published: Practical Fishkeeping Sunday 5 August 2012

Based on a link provided by Les (Atoll)

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5192

Interesting findings !

Albert

Edited September 13, 2012 by albertthiel

September 13, 2012

Having looked again my money is on it being a Rhodactis hairy mushroom. The light coloured one is an indication it has spent a large part of the time out of the light.

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to get better close up pictures, but it's very hard because it pulls back into the rocks and hides. This is the most extended I have seen it in the last two days, and when I get to close, it'll hide more. Normally it looks very dull, but since it's so dark, I have to use the flash, and that's what makes it appear green around the tips. I wish I could see if it has a pink mouth. Yes, that is more of it in the crevice of higher rocks to the left.

It would be a miracle if it's really that same anemone, hiding from sight for almost a year. I just cleaned up the tank and defeated the plant that was all over the rocks a few months ago. It was nowhere to be seen. I don't know what else it could possibly be though. The nem I had was never too colorful either, just a whitish yellow, but I liked it. It was about 3.5" and this looks to be about 2.5" or so, but it's not fully extended either. Here is a picture taken in April 2011 of the mini carpet I had, my LEDs are quite bright, so it looks paper white instead of yellow/white, but you get the idea:

One thing that confuses me, the picture that shows the nem I had, shows a "fringe like" appearance around the outside. In the picture of the mystery one, the edges look more bubbly. Do you see what I mean? Could it still be the same and it just looks different in the pictures? This is something I certainly never expected! I just can't believe it could be that nem, but hmmm what could it be....

It'll be some work, but I'm thinking about moving the rock and trying to get it out of there. I'll post more pictures when I get them.

That picture of the red fish looking out of the acro is so neat! What is the coral in your tank shown in the very last picture? It looks like a hairy cap coral to me, very interesting, and I like it! Is it some sort of gorgonian?

Thanks again,

Shayna

September 13, 2012

Having looked again my money is on it being a Rhodactis hairy mushroom. The light coloured one is an indication it has spent a large part of the time out of the light.

Based on the original pictures that is also what I suggested Les.

It does look like a Rhodactis spp., so if it was sold to Shayna as a mini carpet then whoever sold it made a definite ID error for that organism.

What we are trying to identify does not really look the same but because the picture is not very detailed it is really hard to tell what exactly it is.

Hopefully Shayna will post a close up of it this evening and we can then more than likely figure out what is now in the tank ...

Odd though that nothing was added to the tank and that the new life form appeared out of nowhere, especially after such a long time.

Let's wait and see what gets posted to decide for sure.

Albert

September 13, 2012

Sorry I must have missed that post Albert.

A baby Rhodactis can easily be brought in on a piece of living rock and go unnoticed for quite sometime esp as I suspect in this case it was originally around the back oand ut of sight. The light colouration suggests this to me and I have seen it before.

Here are a few pic's of Rhodactis.

Based on the original pictures that is also what I suggested Les.

It does look like a Rhodactis spp., so if it was sold to Shayna as a mini carpet then whoever sold it made a definite ID error for that organism.

What we are trying to identify does not really look the same but because the picture is not very detailed it is really hard to tell what exactly it is.

Hopefully Shayna will post a close up of it this evening and we can then more than likely figure out what is now in the tank ...

Odd though that nothing was added to the tank and that the new life form appeared out of nowhere, especially after such a long time.

Let's wait and see what gets posted to decide for sure.

Albert

September 13, 2012

Sorry I must have missed that post Albert.
A baby Rhodactis can easily be brought in on a piece of living rock and go unnoticed for quite sometime esp as I suspect in this case it was originally around the back oand ut of sight. The light colouration suggests this to me and I have seen it before.

Here are a few pic's of Rhodactis.

No problem Les, it's easy to miss one when many messages get posted on the same day : - )

Let's wait and see what Shayna posts later on this evening hopefully, and we'll go from there for the new one that was suddenly seen and for which an ID was asked.

Albert

September 13, 2012

Giant Bristle Worm looking for Food

Video:

Albert

September 13, 2012

A Technical Paper on the Light Absorption of various types of Cyanobacteria

This article is for those of you who are interested in learning more about the type of Light Absorption by a number of types of Cyanobacteria

http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_37/issue_2/0434.pdf

Albert

September 14, 2012

Links to A Number Of Articles that deal with Cyanobacteria

These are mostly technical papers and should be of interest to those who want to understand more about Cyanobacteria.

Above the Link you will find the title of the Articles

Cyanobacteria Toxins in the Water Environment

http://www.fwr.org/cyanotox.pdf

Evidence of cyanobacteria-like endosymbionts

in Acroporid corals from the Great Barrier Reef

http://www.springerlink.com/content/...l/fulltext.pdf

Chemical defense of a marine cyanobacterial bloom

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2324962

Excess carbon in aquatic organisms and ecosystems: Physiological, ecological, and

evolutionary implications

Dag O. Hessen1

University of Oslo, Department of Biology, CEES, P.O. Box 1066 Blindern, 0316 Oslo, Norway

http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_53/issue_4/1685.pdf

Nitrogen Control in Cyanobacteria

http://jb.asm.org/cgi/content/full/183/2/411

Effects of UV and visible light on cyanobacteria at the cellular level

http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journa...p?doi=b203955a

Hydrogen Peroxide Inhibits Photosynthetic Electron Transport in Cells of Cyanobacteria

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k8857r1501213202/

Combined exposure to hydrogen peroxide and light : Selective effects on cyanobacteria, green algae, and diatoms

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18420025

Albert

September 14, 2012

Robin:

I am going to answer you in 2 messages and below is Part I of my response. Part II will be posted later this evening but I wanted to give you some info on how you set up the tank etc. before dealing with the issues you point out.

Albert, thank you for your help. My computer decided it did not know who I was the past two days and kept signing me into a "temporary user profile" (evidently a quirk in Windows 7) but perhaps it was fate... I did as you suggested and replaced all media in my basket in addition to the floss which I replace 2-3 x a week, and did a 25% water change. I also removed app. 2 pounds of the live rock that was the most algae covered, which opened up the front of the biocube. Tada - today there is just a bit of hair algae left. I believe removing some of the rock allowed for better water flow and allowed the hermit crabs to get to more of it - they have been working away at what is left. I am planning to get my own testing kit this weekend and begin double checking the water parameters after taking in samples to the small LFS just for my own peace of mind.

Thank you for your help. I will post better pictures of the revised LR and tank this weekend - again, any tips or suggestions on placements, etc. will be welcomed!

Robin

September 14, 2012

Albert I find it amazing you found an article on peroxide studies and cyanobacteria, truly amazing. I noticed its in French but has translations, we'll take anything we can get, formal studies are sooooo rare. Id seen that other one you posted, but not this one, so Im off to splash it around in the chem forum on RC real quick thanks

B

September 14, 2012

At the fear of repeating myself I have used Oxydators with Hydrogen peroxide many times to cure cyno in reef tank. I have watched it shrink to nothing over a period of days. No other form of treatment or alterations to light or filtration was ever necessary. I have been using Oxydators to improve water quality, help cure outbreaks of undesirable algae and remove yellowing tints from the water for over 30 years as many people know and many have followed with similar results.

September 14, 2012

Albert, thank you for your help. My computer decided it did not know who I was the past two days and kept signing me into a "temporary user profile" (evidently a quirk in Windows 7) but perhaps it was fate...

I did as you suggested and replaced all media in my basket in addition to the floss which I replace 2-3 x a week, and did a 25% water change. I also removed app. 2 pounds of the live rock that was the most algae covered, which opened up the front of the biocube. Tada - today there is just a bit of hair algae left.

I believe removing some of the rock allowed for better water flow and allowed the hermit crabs to get to more of it - they have been working away at what is left. I am planning to get my own testing kit this weekend and begin double checking the water parameters after taking in samples to the small LFS just for my own peace of mind.

Thank you for your help. I will post better pictures of the revised LR and tank this weekend - again, any tips or suggestions on placements, etc. will be welcomed!

Robin

Thanks for the update Robin, and I am glad that things are starting to look better for you in your tank. Yes a little more cleaning, and watching the tank and if needed changing some of the compounds, and I think you will have it under control.

Yes, do post some pictures in a few days as you said, so we can see what the result is of all the maintenance you have done on the tank.

I appreciate the update.

Sorry to read about your computer problems. Although I used PC's and Mac's up to some time ago, I now only use a Mac Laptop, and have not kept up with reading the newsletters I get on Windows. Glad you managed to get into your PC though as once one is locked out it can mean reformatting in most cases.

Albert

September 14, 2012

Albert I find it amazing you found an article on peroxide studies and cyanobacteria, truly amazing. I noticed its in French but has translations, we'll take anything we can get, formal studies are sooooo rare. Id seen that other one you posted, but not this one, so Im off to splash it around in the chem forum on RC real quick thanks
B

I guess that as the saying goes Brandon, "perseverance pays off" ... and time of course to keep searching.

Glad you liked the article, sorry about it not all being in English but with the free translation services one can find on the Net you may be able to get those sections you are more interested in translated into English, that or "learn French quickly". Alternatively send me the text here that you need a translation for and I'll do it for you since I speak French ...

Boomer Bill Wing, on the Chem section in RC is real good at Chemistry, so I'll be interested to see what his reactions is and what he has to say.

He helped me out a long time ago when I was developing new products for Thiel Aqua Tech in the 80's and 90's and I have also been amazed by his knowledge of chemistry although his real job is defusing Bombs as you probably know.

If I come across anything else about hydrogen peroxide and our tanks, I will make sure to post it on this thread as besides answering questions, spreading knowledge and articles is another reason for this thread, at least in my "book"

Albert

September 14, 2012

At the fear of repeating myself I have used Oxydators with Hydrogen peroxide many times to cure cyno in reef tank. I have watched it shrink to nothing over a period of days.

No other form of treatment or alterations to light or filtration was ever necessary. I have been using Oxydators to improve water quality, help cure outbreaks of undesirable algae and remove yellowing tints from the water for over 30 years as many people know and many have followed with similar results.

Les, there is no doubt that the Oxydator filled with Hydrogen Peroxide, and that reacts with the special silver plate that is part of it, and breaks up the H₂O₂ into water and free oxygen, delivers what it promises, and has not negative side-effects on anything one keeps in one's tanks.

Since it works so well and does indeed kill off all sorts of algae in a relatively small amount of time, I am somewhat surprised that so few hobbyist are using it,

It has been available for a long time in the U.S., in fact I was recently informed that it has actually been available in this country since the 80's, and even was written up in a long article TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist - Herbert Axelrod's) Magazine (via a pers. comm. with Boomer Bill Wing recently).

For those who want to revisit it functionality and what and how it accomplishes what Les has been pointing out, here are a few links to the current distributor and articles of the Söchting Oxydaters (as they come in various size, one of them small enough to use in a Nano tank).

1. http://www.aquariumoxygenator.com

2. http://tinyurl.com/8auhkx4

3. http://tinyurl.com/9er7dtm

4. And a video of how it is used on larger ones:

5. http://www.bossaquaria.com.au/sochting-oxydator-mini-45ltr/

And there are many more. Below is a link generated by the Search Function on this thread that shows all the posts that have dealt with the Oxydator so far:

http://tinyurl.com/9xk9yzw

If anyone wants more info on how they work and why, feel feel to post your questions here and I am sure that Les will answer them and if not I will.

It definitely is one of the only ways of ridding the tank of algae in a simple manner, including cyanobacteria.

The other product that seems to get relatively good reviews and claims NOT to have any antibiotics in it is Dick Boyd's ChemiClean for which the description given is:

Specifications given:

- Removes disease causing red cyanobacteria (red slime) from live coral.

- Removes red slime, black, blue-green and bubble producing algae.

- Oxidizes trapped organic sludge and sediment.

- Clarifies aquarium water to crystal clear.

- Promotes ideal enzyme balance.

- Contains no phosphates, algaecides or erythromycin succinate.

- Safe for reef tanks, all invertebrates, desirable macro algaes, nitrifying bacteria and fish.

- Treats up to 300 Gallons.

However the instructions on how it must be used seem to put quite a few hobbyists off, although I have found many reviews that confirm that it works as indicated.

The one missing piece though is will it keep them out for good, or those one have to repeat the treatment a number of times, some indicate at least once a month, to ensure that no Cyanos come back.

If that is truly the case then the Oxydator is a better choice IMHO and a lot less expensive to use in the medium turn as ChemiClean is not inexpensive ($12.99 and more for 2 grams).

The Oxydator Company's website can be find at http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html and if you want to get in touch with them, below is a pic of the contact info on their site:

Albert

September 14, 2012

A Few More Beautiful Corals for your Enjoyment

Albert

September 14, 2012

Hydrogen Peroxide and Dinoflagellates

Brandon :

Here is another interesting post of using Hydrogen Peroxide for you:

http://tinyurl.com/9pjqrgv

Albert

September 14, 2012

Dealing with Ammonia in the Reef and can Clinoptilolite be used ?

What other methods does he suggest to effectively deal with ammonia ? Is Clino effective at all?

Ammonia is one of the most studied chemicals in aquaria, and the details of its uptake, excretion and mechanisms of toxicity continue to occupy many research scientists.

Because of its high toxicity, it is critically important in both freshwater and marine systems.

In fact, it is one of the few important chemical issues that marine and freshwater aquaria share.

Nevertheless, misunderstandings abound about ammonia's sources, nature and toxicity, which may not be recognized by many reef aquarists

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Albert

September 14, 2012

Mystery of the White Reef Slime: a 3 Part Article

Not a common occurrence but it does happen to some Hobbyists

Part I:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/my...hite-reef-slime

Part II:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/my...f-slime-part-ii

Part III:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/my...-slime-part-iii

Albert

September 14, 2012

Shayna:

Let me look at those pictures somewhat more and see what I can come up with ...

What is shown in the picture of what you showed for last year and what I see in the one you are asking an ID for are quite different indeed and do not look like they are the same life forms.

The one in the older picture looks like a Mushroom type as Les pointed out, but to me it looks like a Rhodactis and if you look at the following set of images and scroll down you will see one that looks just about identical:

http://tinyurl.com/9hks5xa

The one in the newer pictures looks more like an anemone, but as I said given that it is not close up it is hard to say so thank you for trying to get a closer shot of it and I think then we'll be able to figure it out and come up with an ID.

Note that due to the lack of lighting when it was hiding, it may have expelled its zooxantellae and developed new ones of lesser color, hence what it looks like now.

Maxi-mini and Mini-mini's come in a whole lot of forms and appearances so they may still be the same but just as you say I cannot see a mouth either in that picture and if it is that nem you had it should have that mouth opening.

I'll look at what you sent more closely and get back to you and also look forward to the picture you are going to try to take.

On the Red Fish:I posted two of them in the last two pages so I am not sure which one you are referring to.

Albert

Les take a look at :

http://tinyurl.com/9hks5xa

and scroll down and you will see what looks like the older picture that was posted which is identified as a Rhodactis spp.

I am waiting for the more close up picture of what is there now to try and figure out what it is, but it does look more like an anemone to me than a type of Hairy Mushroom.

Albert

If you take it out and put it in a small vessel and then take a picture we might see more, but when you do so it may shrivel up so you may want to take your pictures before taking it out.

And yes my curiosity is at its peak now as well : - )

Thanks

Albert

Thanks for all of the replies and info! Yes, I'm quite sure the original one was an anemone by it's foot and behavior. I've also seen a lot of mini carpets around here and it looked just like them, except white in color. I've also never seen any type of mushroom in picture or person, that has the rosy colored mouth all the way around. After comparing the two pictures side by side, I agree they are not the same.

I spent a considerable amount of time last night carefully extracting the mystery character from the base rock. And I think I like my new rock arrangement better! Now it is really angry and all shriveled up. It's barely 1" in diameter right now. I'm hoping it extends today for better pictures. After getting it pulled out and seeing it's foot and mouth, I am 100% sure it is some type of mushroom, possibly similar to the pictures posted. It has the bubbly edging like those in the pictures. Carpets appear to have more of a fringe edging.

I have the camera battery charged up and ready to go, should have more pictures today.

Thanks again,

Shayna

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