Custom Look CadLights 50Long

[twan]

Filter Socks

 

So a little history here. When I was first setting up the tank I was using mesh filter socks.

With the amount of air my drain pipe was pulling in the sock would float on the surface of chamber 1 in the sump and be pretty loud.

As I got the durso sorted I found it necessary to switch to the felt type socks to catch more particulate and be quiet.

 

Lately though, the socks have been clogging within 1-2 days.

It maybe from me having fish now, and more food / waste.

It may be that my 10 or so felt socks that I rotate and wash are past their lifespan.

 

Fast forward to the last few days and every felt sock seems to clog within 2 days.

My drain pipe is partially and intentionally choked off to allow proper water levels in the overflow.

When the sock gets clogged this has 2 negative effects.

 

1.) the skimmer goes crazy and is prone to over flow.

2.) the already choked drain pipe backs up with pressure and the water level in the overflow in the display gets dangerously high.

 

My solution last night was to remove filter sock all together. It alleviated my skimmer and water height problem and I also notice more flow through my sump.

 

Question is, will I notice water quality degradation and increase nuisance algae growth running without any type of filter sock?

Is everyone running filter socks now-a-days?

[nickjqz]

I have stopped using filter socks and I have not seen a difference good or bad in my display tank or sump, except that I don't have to wash them all of the time. I also read somewhere that someone thinks that corals and other organisms need the floating particulates to thrive but I don't know.

[twan]

Ok thanks nickjqz, looking for opinions from more people who stopped using filter socks.

 

I have to keep an eye on my sump to find that the detritus the sock used to collect will find one chamber/spot to collect and I will just siphon it out when I do a water change.

 

Sound OK?

[21093r53]

i like the progress

[nickjqz]

Sounds good to me!

[twan]

Lost power for 6hrs in a storm last night.

Ecotech Battery backup kicked on and powered my 2 mp10's at a low setting.

Wheeled the portable generator out, plugged into panel, hit transfer switch, most of the house came back online including my network and the APEX my complete tank is plugged into.

 

Had a hiccup with the Tunze ATO though, when it got power back, it dumped the entire contents of my top off water into the sump and nearly flooded the display. Good thing I was there.

Does make me feel uneasy about power outage's then fast power restore when/if I am not home...........

[twan]

It's weird. My sump can handle the water from the display no problem.

I do not have these problems when cutting the return pump to do water changes / maintenance.

The problem was the ATO ran right away and too long under false pretenses after power restore.

The topoff is the Tunze top of the line with the infrared eye.

The water level in the sump was fine in the end, it was the display that was on the brink of overflowing.

I guess that's a consequence of a choked drain line and needing to wait for things to equalize after power outage.

 

The way I am trying to think of how the scenario went is:

 

1.) Power back on and the sump level went low due to the return pump kicking on.

2.) ATO kicks on and stays on due to low sump level.

3.) By the time the choked drain line began flowing correctly to restore the correct sump water level there was now too much water in the system.

4.) When settled, the open return kept the sump level correct.

5.) When settled, the choked drain..................with now all the excess ATO water...............made my display level overflow.

 

Sound right? I was overseeing the generator operation and getting it stable and covered while this was all taking place.

The resolution for this would be to build something into the apex by which the ATO will not turn back on after power restore until at least 15 minutes after.

Here is my ATO program that ensures when the return pump is turned off or my maintenance virtual outlet is turned off the ATO will not kick on for 7 minutes.

This does not help in a power outage/restore because it would require me to gain access to my network, get on my phone or browser, turn the outlet maintenance on.........or the return pump outlet off manually.......and by that time the damage would already be done.

 

Here is my current ATO profile set to auto:

 

Set ON

Fallback ON

If Outlet Maint = ON Then OFF

If Outlet Maint = OFF Then ON

Defer 007:00 Then ON

If Outlet ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

 

To this I would need to add some kinda "If power lost, defer this outlets normal operation until X" I think. I am not aware of the proper syntax or placement of such a statement.

[mpsti05]

Man I need to order that battery back up already! And man that apex stuff seems semi complicated but i want one!

[twan]

Some thoughts:

 

1.) If the power fails I want to delay starting the ATO once power is restored. Can be accomplished easily with the command:

If Power EB8_3 OFF 003 Then OFF

If Power to EB8 #3 is OFF and for 3 minutes after power is returned, set the ATO outlet state register to OFF. This would also apply to the skimmer.

 

2.)would adjusting the fall back to off in some way help me?

 

3.)would using a [min] statement assist?

 

Min Time

Min Time [DURATION] Then [ON/OFF]

The “Min Time” statement prevents the outlet from turning ON or OFF

again for a certain amount of time that

you specify (MMM:SS). It keeps it in its current state and prevents it from changing state for a certain amount of time. It doesn‟t stop it from turning ON/OFF now

nor does it regulate the amount of time an outlet runs. It justforces the outlet to stay in its current state.A common use is with metal halide lights. If you have a brief power

failure that kills your lights, you don‟t want them trying to turn back on immediately. You want them to cool down for 5 or 10 minutes first, to avoiddamaging the bulbs. You can use the Min Time statement for that. Or consider a top-off where you don‟t want

the top-off happening again for a certain amount of time even if the outlet wants to. The Min Time statement isperfect for that. You could use it as follows at the end of your MH outlet statements:

Fallback ON

Set OFF

If Time 08:00 to 19:00 Then ON

Min Time 010:00 Then OFF

 

The Min Time statement applies to the entire outlet, not individual statements

[twan]

If I take the advise from this thread here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1838558

 

I should be able to add the bold line to my current langauge and end up with this:

 

 

Set ON

Fallback ON

If Outlet Maint = ON Then OFF

If Outlet Maint = OFF Then ON

Defer 009:00 Then ON

If Outlet ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

If Power EB8_3 OFF 010 Then OFF

 

Will that defer my ATO from starting up until 10 mins following a power outage?

[Asureef]

Question is, will I notice water quality degradation and increase nuisance algae growth running without any type of filter sock?

Is everyone running filter socks now-a-days?

 

I have never ran a filter sock only a sponge before the last chamber, but I took that out a while back as I got tired of changing it every 2-3days. If you have a good exporting system and know its limitation, you should be fine. With my sump, detritus seem to build up more so in the 3rd chamber which is siphon off every 2 weeks. Although, I don't have this problem with my setup, setting the "AIO" on delay seems like a good plan.

[twan]

I spoke with customer support and they suggested this language for my ATO:

 

Fallback Off

Set On

If Outlet Maint = On Then off

If Outlet ReturnPump = Off Then Off

Defer 7:00 Then On

Min Time 5:00 Then Off

 

The reasoning: The Fallback Off should be the biggest assistance to this. Furthermore, the Defer statement prevents the outlet from actually turning on until the statement has been true for at least 7:00. The min time makes sure any time the outlet is off, will stay off for at least 5:00 before turning back on.

 

Issue is that it did not work!

 

I was able to test the unit by removing the aquabus cable from the base unit. The outlets with fallback off all stayed on.

I then tested a power out situation by pulling the EB8 plugs from the wall for 10 minutes.

When I plugged both EB8's back in the skimmer and ato started immediately. Not what I need/want.

 

To do a real power out test did I have to unplug both EB8's and the aqauabus cable?

[twan]

Apex ATO, Skimmer, Carbon Reactor - Power Outage Fix

 

So my last few posts might have seemed like mumbo-jumbo to non-apex users.

This post just summarizes that those trials and tribulations were worth it.

After 3 emails back and forth with Paul at Neptune I got it solved.

Here is the proper langauge that I now use for my ATO, Skimmer, and Carbon Reactor:

 

Fallback OFF

Set ON

If Outlet Maint = ON Then OFF

If Outlet ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

Defer 010:00 Then ON

If Power EB8_3 Off 010 Then OFF

If Power Apex Off 010 Then OFF

 

1.) If I turn my maintenance virtual outlet on or shut off the return pump the ATO, Skimmer, and Carbon Reactor all wait 10 minutes after for the water levels to re-adjust before going back to their normal operating behavior. This is the Defer part of the statement above.

 

2.) If I lose power for some reason the ATO, Skimmer, and Carbon Reactor will not turn back on following a power restore for 20 minutes (10+10=20). This is the Power Apex / Power EB8_3 part of the statement above.

 

I tested this by unplugging both EB8's then plugging them back in simulating a power outage.

Working as intended.

[Deckoz2302]

Quite different since my last visit. Looks good twan

[pablom617]

Beautiful tank

[twan]

Thanks for the kind words Deckoz2302 & pablom617.

 

The diatom battle has ceased, still have a little GHA and some cyno appearing. I have been doing 12g water changes each week to combat this new tank syndrome.

[twan]

Getting ready for a 4 day vacation next week.

My tank sitter will be over 2 of the 4 days I will be away just to feed, fill the ATO reservoir and make sure the skimmer isnt overflowing.

 

Added another cam on the sump for piece of mind.

This is temporary only for when I am away.

I have to open both my stand doors, set my laptop on a chair opposite it & use the integrated webcam on the laptop via my home network wifi.

It is very choppy at like 5 frames per second but it will let me access the cam via my iphone while away to be able to check the sump now in addition to the display.

[twan]

Low PH

 

So my PH usually sits right about 8.1 during the day and 7.9 at night (fuge lite opposite display lights).

The last 7 days or so I have seen a gentle swing trending lower overall.

This hit bottom at 7am this morning when my APEX sent me a text that PH hit 7.75.

This reminded me that the windows in the basement have been closed for most of the same time

in order to keep the tank cooler using the central a/c that makes its way down from the upstairs.

I cracked the window down there and will monitor. Would the low oxygen in the room account for this

gentle swing trending lower overall for the last few days?

 

Here is what it looks like visually

[Rehype]

Low PH

 

So my PH usually sits right about 8.1 during the day and 7.9 at night (fuge lite opposite display lights).

The last 7 days or so I have seen a gentle swing trending lower overall.

This hit bottom at 7am this morning when my APEX sent me a text that PH hit 7.75.

This reminded me that the windows in the basement have been closed for most of the same time

in order to keep the tank cooler using the central a/c that makes its way down from the upstairs.

I cracked the window down there and will monitor. Would the low oxygen in the room account for this

gentle swing trending lower overall for the last few days?

 

Here is what it looks like visually

 

The buildup of carbox dioxide will suppress your PH. so just open a window or two and it will go up within a few hours.

[bencollinz]

what's the word!? (on anything)

[twan]

PH

From my previous post I now keep a window by the tank cracked at all times even if the A/C is on.

This has given me higher and more stable PH levels.

 

Cyno

It is in full swing now. Not just in low flow areas, several places on the rocks and over 80% of the sand bed.

I have been blasting it off and putting a filter sock back on to catch the particulate but within 24hrs it is right back. I also see it accumulate on the sponges in my carbon reactor. I am still doing weekly water changes of 10-15 gallons and it is not improving at the moment. The only thing I changed around the same time that this started is I stopped running filter socks in the sump 24/7 since they would clog easily within 1-2 days.

 

• New tank syndrome? (possibly, I had detritus come and go already)
  
• BRS Pukani Rock leaching phosphates? (possibly, test kit reads 0 phosphates though probably because the cyno is using it.)
  
• Heavy handed feeding? (possibly, I am now cutting back and rinsing all frozen)
  

 

Bottom line is the tank looks like crap, a few corals (torch/gorg) are not opening fully and I am frustrated.

I am going to keep my head down, stick to weekly water changes of 10-15gal, watch how much I feed and every other day blast/siphon into a filter sock.

[Spirofucci]

I had a recent outbreak of cyno/dino, found out I had a TDS of 5 on my RODI. At least I think that is the cause. Did some 25% WC, I still have it.

[twan]

That was my 1st check, the TDS coming out of the RO/DI unit.

That shows 0 though.

[twan]

Thinking about 2 days of no light as per this thread with zero light on the tank Tuesday and Wednesday:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2095174

Restore light Thursday and do a 15g water change siphoning out what remains.

 

I was under the impression that LED lighting provided more stable spectrum because of its bulb life.

Meaning, like on my past tanks with MH and PC lighting.............when the bulbs got to the end of their life span I would see nuisance algae pop up because of the spectrum shift and the bulbs would need replacing. This is not the case with LEDS though.

 

But I guess in the end if cyno feeds of nutrients and light...........and I have addressed the nutrients...........then maybe a 2 day black out can help some.

 

Thoughts?

[pyronus]

The problem with cyano is that it is everywhere, and that it is nutrients and nutrients problem alone. Increasing flow does not remove the cyano from your system, it simple makes it more difficult for it to colonize a surface. Something has to be leeching PO4 for it to grow or you are just experiencing the leftovers from heavy feeding. Do you vacuum your sandbed? A major source of phosphates could be unconsumed detrius.