Aiptasia Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'd like to request that this post be made "Sticky," as it's an important research project and Eric Borneman can use the help of advanced reefkeepers with elegance corals. Recently imported elegance corals are dying in captivity at an alarming rate. If you are currently keeping elegance corals, Eric Borneman is conducting a research study to try and find out the cause of why older elegance corals are doing well, but newly imported ones are dying. Professor Borneman needs frags, tissue samples for living and dead elegance corals, tissue swabs, photographs and financial contributions. Please, if you seriously believe in the conservation of wild corals, read the article at the link below and help Eric Borneman save our elegance corals. This is a real chance for hobbyists to make a strong scientific contribution to saving a threatened species. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-02/eb/f...ature/index.htm Moderator note: stuck. Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Yes, but whether he's masters level or a PH.D. I do not know. The man has written one of the finest books on captive coral keeping i've ever read. Here's his address: Eric Borneman Department of Biology University of Houston Science and Research Building II 4800 Calhoun Rd. Houston, TX 77204 Ph (713) 743-2667 Once again, click the above link for more info on this research project. Link to comment
adinsxq Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 yes i am aware of his book. i own it. didn't know he taught courses though... just because you hold a research position at school doesn't mean you're a professor. ok bye. Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 Anybody who writes a textbook on how to keep corals alive, conducts research studies and generally gives all of his time to the support and education of this hobby, i would consider someone who actually "professes." But, i'm not going to argue semantics. He could be a left handed haitian belly scratcher for all I know. The point is, he's requesting hobbyist's help to solve a real problem, through the use of the scientific method. This could be his masters or PH.D. thesis, ever consider that? I don't see anybody else doing it, so kudos for him. Link to comment
Reefmaniac Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I know a guy from Florida who bought an elegance not too long ago, then found out about the project. He donated the elegance...had it shipped from the store to Mr. Borneman. I don't have one, but after reading the article, I won't buy one until the cause/cure is found. I suggest that my fellow reefers do likewise. Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 Yep, since wild corals are coming in already diseased, it may be a good idea to hold off on buying them, or at least try to find a frag from a cultured elegance. Easier said than done. Link to comment
pyrrhus Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I am an aquarium service technician (fish guy/deuce bigalow) my only experience with an elegance was a beautiful piece which opened fully within 30 minutes of being placed in the tank within 2 weeks to a month the coral had died. Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 That's the problem. So many elegance corals in the past were hardy specemins. Julian Sprung used to recommend them highly back in the 90's as a perfect hardy starter coral, but recently they've been succumbing to unknown problems and dying with some frequency. Eric is trying to find out why and what can be done about it. Link to comment
pyrrhus Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 unfortunately all i would be able to contribute is a 3 month old skeleton that is fast on its way to becoming LR Link to comment
Armadildo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by Aiptasia Anybody who writes a textbook on how to keep corals alive, conducts research studies and generally gives all of his time to the support and education of this hobby, i would consider someone who actually "professes." But, i'm not going to argue semantics. He could be a left handed haitian belly scratcher for all I know. The point is, he's requesting hobbyist's help to solve a real problem, through the use of the scientific method. This could be his masters or PH.D. thesis, ever consider that? I don't see anybody else doing it, so kudos for him. O RLY ??? fact of the matter is, if they don't survive, and they have a poor survival rate...... HAY MORON ! DON'T FN' BUY IT ! If enough people got that through their thick skulls, the transhippers would stop pulling them out of the ocean. This isn't a PHD needed thing people. It is Common sense. Some things are just beyond our understanding at prsenttimes, and asking the Blind to lead the Deaf in a parade of stuptitude is loonacy. I for one deleted his email to me about this exact subject a few months back.... And yes, I do know quite a few "upety up's" and many of us are laughing at this " study". Any results while "perhaps" usefull, are trivial and based on circumstance at best. Mother nature is quite complex, and there are some things we will NEVER know ( and really shouldn't mess with at present time). PERIOD Just my RANT..... END. Link to comment
ODOG Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Arma#####...I agree with some of what you say, but the fact is the Aquarium Hobby in general is filled with people who buy first ask questions later (We almost all have done it at somepoint)., which leads me to the next fact which is we can't rely on ourselves to police this. Given that, why not encourage an effort like this and see if we can really learn something. If it fails, oh well, what's the cost...Nothing. If it succeeeds in finding something it's one more beautiful creature to be added to our setups. This hobby has come a long way over the last 20 years and needs to continue the trend. Link to comment
Armadildo Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 agreed, but what we DONT NEED is more pressyre on the collection of the animals themselves. C.I.T.E.S. needs to crack down on overfishing. it starts with DIVERS and TRANSHIPPERS like WALT SMITH, and then the importers. If the Importers stopped carrying certain species of things, the reef hobby would be in better standings, and have a better name for itself. People are fn' stupid. PERIOD. "They" blame the decline of reefs as a result of OUR hobby. BULL#### There are many contributing factors, and I'm not going into this discussion about them. RESEARCH IS GOOD... but QUALIFIED PEOPLE should be doing it.. not a bunch of reef tank keeping monkeys who have " happhazard results in " test"... What a crock of ####. ugh... sometimes this hobby discust me. Link to comment
Optimum Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I heard that most elegance is harvested from deeper waters because of over harvesting in the past. That is why they are less likely to survive. The only person I have heard of keeping one longer than a few months bought it a few years ago. Link to comment
reefboy Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I have had an elegance for > 2 months in my 26g. I got from my lfs. No problems best I can tell. ...what happens? Link to comment
macrodactyla Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Originally posted by Arma##### O RLY ??? fact of the matter is, if they don't survive, and they have a poor survival rate...... HAY MORON ! DON'T FN' BUY IT ! If enough people got that through their thick skulls, the transhippers would stop pulling them out of the ocean. This isn't a PHD needed thing people. It is Common sense. Some things are just beyond our understanding at prsenttimes, and asking the Blind to lead the Deaf in a parade of stuptitude is loonacy. I for one deleted his email to me about this exact subject a few months back.... And yes, I do know quite a few "upety up's" and many of us are laughing at this " study". Any results while "perhaps" usefull, are trivial and based on circumstance at best. Mother nature is quite complex, and there are some things we will NEVER know ( and really shouldn't mess with at present time). PERIOD Just my RANT..... END. Elegance Aids:D Link to comment
Aiptasia Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 Originally posted by Arma##### agreed, but what we DONT NEED is more pressyre on the collection of the animals themselves. C.I.T.E.S. needs to crack down on overfishing. it starts with DIVERS and TRANSHIPPERS like WALT SMITH, and then the importers. If the Importers stopped carrying certain species of things, the reef hobby would be in better standings, and have a better name for itself. People are fn' stupid. PERIOD. "They" blame the decline of reefs as a result of OUR hobby. BULL#### There are many contributing factors, and I'm not going into this discussion about them. RESEARCH IS GOOD... but QUALIFIED PEOPLE should be doing it.. not a bunch of reef tank keeping monkeys who have " happhazard results in " test"... What a crock of ####. ugh... sometimes this hobby discust me. Me too, especially after posts like this. I would like to see more international pressure brought against the wild collection and importation of non-farmed coral species. That is, after all, the direction I believe the hobby will eventually go based on public opinion. It's true that overfishing/harvesting, worldwide increases in average oceanic water levels and temperatures and pollution in the forms of farm waste runoff have killed a lot of reef territory, but give me a break. I can't do anything about those issues, just what I can do within the hobby itself. Wild caught fish and animals are having some impact on already fragile ecosystems. I won't argue over semantics, but it's possibly one of these factors that's causing the elegance coral problems. If the goal is to reduce the "impact" on the wild coral populations, you better believe that hobbyist collection will be one of the first things that goes. It's already happened to our hobby in Florida and the American Carribean and I sure don't see anyone cracking down on the pig farmers. I'd agree with some of the quotes above. There are a lot of people who've bought corals/inverts/fish without knowing the first thing about keeping them, including a lot of LFS's, wholesalers and importers. Most of us are guilty of that in the past, whether it was your first fish or your last coral, chances are if you bought it, it was probably something you've never "kept" before. Yes, research is good. I don't care if Eric does it or not, but since he's working out of the biology department in Houston and certainly has a lot of accredited oversight (people to check his methods and his math), not to mention his experience in the hobby, he should be able to do more than an adequate job. You should keep in mind that undergraduate students do excellent reserach all of the time and some of them are lucky enough to parlay that research into a phD degree. And..... Do you realize how many hobbyists have contributed their own research to this very hobby? If I remember right, A GREAT DEAL! It's no different in this situation. Remember the great freshwater angelfish mystery disease of the late 80's and early 90's? Guess not, but during those years all of the freshwater angelfish commercial breeders in asia had their stock die after an unidentified viral disease killed them off. It was american hobbyists that came to their rescue, not some phD in a lab coat. Not all of us are monkeys, some of us could easily stump the average marine biologist when it comes to reef tanks and reef animals. I once asked a marine biologist at our local Ripley's Aquarium what concentration of calcium they kept in a particular display tank's water and she looked at me with a vacant blank expression on her face. She didn't know. All of the qualifications and the paper degree necessary for her to get the job, but maybe she was doing research on freshwater micronesian jellyfish all this time. She had no clue the answer to a simple calcium question. This study is a chance for Eric and a lot of "monkeys" in the hobby to contribute something, and I for one hope Eric succeeds in finding out a root cause, with all of the speculation. There, that's my rant. Now, koko want banana apple monkey poo. Link to comment
greentreepython Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I am currently testing techniques of taking your reef livestock and seeing how well they do in my tank so please send me the following 1. any brain coral 2. fox coral 3. torch 4. any and all acros 5. oh yeah and elegance, if other people get em for free so should I respect and admire anyone who wants to better this world. Lets get some facts if you are doing any research you need viable and conclusive evidence. first off all in the case of accepting anoymous livestock from anonymous people. You as a biologist need to know important variables such as locality, age, last breeding cycle, method of collection etc. etc. ect. How can you have conclusive results when you do not even know the age of a specimen. This guy probably is a valid Phd but, there is a right way and a wrong way. Oh if any of you have any spare green tree pythons laying around, I am testing a hypothesis on how much I can sale one in chicago as to one in san diego. My rant. not much to it, but its late, dont even think grammar is up to par Link to comment
BallR Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Aiptasia... How are you going to say i know the reefs of the world are in dire circumstances but what can I do? So let's save the elegance coral!!!...its a conflictive statement..There is no saving a coral specie from a destroyed reef...what are you doin the benefit for?..your tank?...maybe ol doc should research on how widespread the devastation of our oceans is...I for one know that we are in the 6th largest mass extinction of this planet...yea sure things go extinct as part of evolution..it has been, but its been at about 1,000-2,000 max species a year before humans....nowadays we're at about 30-50 THOUSAND a year...something look wrong in this picture?...and like ESPI said nature is alot more complex than we for the most part think it to be...ever heard of the web of life?...the eco-SYSTEM?? you think in the last 50yrs? (50K extinct species x 50yrs =2.5 million species) has had no effect on the lovely elegance coral?...think in chains.... i wouldnt doubt that the reason the corals are not as good as they were years back is because the links are startin to snap.... Theres my rant My first but not my last : u best get rightt!! Link to comment
sox Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 BallR- I check up on this 6th mass extinction. It seems that the last one was the meteor 65 million years ago. What happened after the ice age? any extinction there? Its sick how some environmental activists posing as scientists can distort reality in order to make people affraid. Granted more animals are threatened than in recorded history, but it is no basis for which to blame people for everything. Global warming has natural causes as well, which will create a warmer and wetter Earth. This will promote more plantlife and decrease CO2 levels. Coupled with a global movement to decrease greenhouse gases, it is irresponsible to spread false a needlessly dire predictions of the future. Link to comment
coral reef Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 must everything turn into a debate around here the man wants to do something worth while who knows he might find something out and maybe he fails but the point is instead of you all argueing you all can be doing something productive dont knock him for that kudos Link to comment
brahm Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Originally posted by coral reef must everything turn into a debate around here the man wants to do something worth while who knows he might find something out and maybe he fails but the point is instead of you all argueing you all can be doing something productive dont knock him for that kudos I agree. By him researching and figuring out what is wrong, hopefully we can learn from that and be able to keep this awsome coral once again.. and thats proboly alot easier then convincing some starving family that they can't eat tonight because they aren't aloud to collect some random coral from the wild they have been collecting for the past how many years? Link to comment
mellen Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 "Vectors". I think the project is completely legit. Borneman is collecting randomly WITHIN a known vector system, namely, the collector-importer-distributor-retailer-hobbyist web. Random samples from the end point (us) will offer some useful data, along with random samples from each point along the chain. Perhaps the problem is deep-water collection. perhaps it is a pathogen that exists only outside natural habitat, perhaps it's physical mishandling, perhaps it's unknowable - but, hey, let's try to help find out! Link to comment
gotfrogs Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 City Pets in Houston had a nice healthy looking one. Link to comment
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