New to plumbing and drilling

[Meengineer0128]

1). Hartford loop is only needed on the main drain line. And then only if the herbie still makes a little noise/prevent salt creep.

 

2). In the thread linked above. Post 13 is my old herbie. Post 15 is also a herbie, just has less room for tuning the water line above the drain to prevent bubbles.

Herbie is simply put. any drain system with a back up drain point above the main.

 

3). 581 should make it a 2200. Running one now @ about 36". Getting around 300gph on the 29. Good pump for the money. Had on the 10 for a couple years.

 

4). If you do the backup drain. it just needs to make it to the sump. If it ever has flow ideally it would make noise. so I have mine set with a couple inches between it & the sumps water line.

 

 

5). When ever you set up a tanks drain system there are compromises. Single drains clog with no backup. Multiple setups are more likely to crack. Siphon's lose siphon. Its just a ? Of which risk you feel comfortable with.

I agree with all of these.... Except for the salt creep, lol. I didn't have salt creep until I added a cover to my drain to quiet it down.... Shame on me, lol.

 

 

Ahhh, as far as the rest. The 300 gph only considers the 36" of head loss. This does not consider elbows or the type of piping or tubing you are using (each has its own friction loss factor).

 

As far as the double back up drain.... To each there own. I am going on now 4 years without a problem... but like bitts says, all it takes is once (though doubt the women would leave over a mishap... She would probably make me get a bigger tank and incorporate more safeties.....i.e. control valves, timing switches, bigger pumps..) All of which are not needed for a 30 gallon setup. If my tank overflows.... So be it... Its a 30 gallon tank... My 150 overflows... Different story. The difference is around 30 gallons of water on the floor. Thats why the 150 has two 500$ actuators on the ball valves which are controlled by level switches (200$ a piece).. I didn't pay that, got them from work, but they would cost a pretty penny if not. Personally, I don't see the risk/reward ratio in your favour if you drill two holes in your tank. Sorry bitts, but its not like hes batting 1.00 right now. I would get one hole and go from there. Good luck man. Pictures whether you fail or not!!!!! Seriously though.... Good luck.

[DimePieceReef]

So did I crack it or not? Scroll down to see .

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VICTORIOUS!!!!!!!!!!! AND NO LEAKS!!!!!!!!!

 

I have to admit. My heart was beating like a madman during the drill. My intentions were to drill two drains and 1 return... but I didnt want to screw it up after getting this far(which is prob not far at all to some)lol. I may still drill another drain when all said and done. I still have to put baffles in my sump...so by the time Im done that Ill make my decision.

 

O. Also. Just wanted to add a note to anyone thinking about drilling. Because my dumbass didnt realize when I drill a hole rite below the lining that I have to take into account that the plastic nut will overlap the hole. If you dont understand what I mean heres a pic.

 

 

As you can see I had to peel off some of the lining in order to be able to keep the bulkhead flush with the glass. So just keep in mind how much space the entire bulkhead is going to take up before you drill.

 

So if you have any comments or suggestions peeps fire away!

 

BTW...Thanks for the good luck peeps! I needed it!

[bitts]

Lol the distance between the edge of the hole & the edge of the glass is way close. you pulled that off so mad props. If you go with the single hole, check glass holes for an overflow box.

 

What size bulkhead did you go with.

[DimePieceReef]

Lol the distance between the edge of the hole & the edge of the glass is way close. you pulled that off so mad props. If you go with the single hole, check glass holes for an overflow box.

 

What size bulkhead did you go with.

 

 

Thanks for the props bitts! I have 1' bulkheads. I checked glass-holes out. What do you think of this box?

[Meengineer0128]

So did I crack it or not? Scroll down to see .

v

v

v

v

v

v

v

 

VICTORIOUS!!!!!!!!!!! AND NO LEAKS!!!!!!!!!

 

I have to admit. My heart was beating like a madman during the drill. My intentions were to drill two drains and 1 return... but I didnt want to screw it up after getting this far(which is prob not far at all to some)lol. I may still drill another drain when all said and done. I still have to put baffles in my sump...so by the time Im done that Ill make my decision.

 

O. Also. Just wanted to add a note to anyone thinking about drilling. Because my dumbass didnt realize when I drill a hole rite below the lining that I have to take into account that the plastic nut will overlap the hole. If you dont understand what I mean heres a pic.

 

 

As you can see I had to peel off some of the lining in order to be able to keep the bulkhead flush with the glass. So just keep in mind how much space the entire bulkhead is going to take up before you drill.

 

So if you have any comments or suggestions peeps fire away!

 

BTW...Thanks for the good luck peeps! I needed it!

 

 

Sweeeeeeet. Nice work. As far as being a little hi...... Can't win them all, lol.

 

Thanks for the props bitts! I have 1' bulkheads. I checked glass-holes out. What do you think of this box?

Nice!! Just make sure it's the box with the teeth already cut. I know they have two packages and one has a box where you have to cut the teeth out. Other than that, seems to be coming together. What's going on with the sump??? Started working on that yet??? Congrats again on the successful drill!!

[DimePieceReef]

Sweeeeeeet. Nice work. As far as being a little hi...... Can't win them all, lol.

 

 

Nice!! Just make sure it's the box with the teeth already cut. I know they have two packages and one has a box where you have to cut the teeth out. Other than that, seems to be coming together. What's going on with the sump??? Started working on that yet??? Congrats again on the successful drill!!

 

Thanks engine! Yeah dude I was sweating bullets with the drill. Thanks again to all for all the tips!

 

As for the overflow. Im not sure if that box will fit being that my bulkhead is so high. It will prob hang over the top of the tank and the 5' width wont make it to the edge. It will prob leave an inch of space at the edge. Im not sure if I want it like that. Ill have to figure something out.

I havent started the sump yet. I just got a cheapy top fin 10 gallon and I bought 4 pieces of 10X12 glass from lowes with a glass cutter tool. Im debating wheather or not to make a bubble trap...but I know I want at least three chambers with a fuge in the middle. Any thoughts you have for me? Thanks again.

 

Hey I just found this on ebay. Also I think the overflow boxes on glass-holes are meant for people that havent drilled yet so they fit. I think a 3 sided is error proof which I like and I know it will fit. Whatcha peeps think?

[bitts]

as to the super nano

i like it without teeth it would have a 8 - 9 inch weir. but yeah if its predrilled then may not fit. couldn't hurt to ask them if the hole can be moved. or if you could drill it yourself & make it fit. as to the 3 sided one. engine may have a better answer but silicone doesn't work well between glass & acrylic. would make me freak out laying there at night. what was that, was that water. oh its the toilet. was it........

[Meengineer0128]

as to the super nano

i like it without teeth it would have a 8 - 9 inch weir. but yeah if its predrilled then may not fit. couldn't hurt to ask them if the hole can be moved. or if you could drill it yourself & make it fit. as to the 3 sided one. engine may have a better answer but silicone doesn't work well between glass & acrylic. would make me freak out laying there at night. what was that, was that water. oh its the toilet. was it........

I actually have no idea. I never tried doing glass to acrylic or vice versa. I would just ask someone you know who does glass work. Your other option is to send them a drawing telling them where to drill the hole or telling them to just send you the box and cut the hole yourself. Dont worry, acrylic is uber easy to drill compared to glass. I cant imagine why they wouldnt let you do it!! Sump sounds good. Are you still going with the bag in chamber 1?? That will really cut down on bubbles and the depending how you lay out the baffels you should eliminate the bubbles.

[bitts]

heres my favorite fuge/sump plan

 

 

[DimePieceReef]

engine:Yes I still will be placing a filter sock in the sump.

bitts: I like that sump setup. Whats the purpose of the shelf lip thing on the right side?

 

Also. Do you guys think it would be difficult to glue 3 pieces of glass together and use that as my overflow box? I would also like to spray paint it with black krylon fusion. It would cost me under $5 to build it myself. Whatchas think?

[Meengineer0128]

engine:Yes I still will be placing a filter sock in the sump.

bitts: I like that sump setup. Whats the purpose of the shelf lip thing on the right side?

 

Also. Do you guys think it would be difficult to glue 3 pieces of glass together and use that as my overflow box? I would also like to spray paint it with black krylon fusion. It would cost me under $5 to build it myself. Whatchas think?

Dime: good idea!! You can def silicone 3 pieces of glass together and then attach to the aquarium. As far as painting, again, not something I have done in the past.

 

Bitts: nice sump, but if you have a good amount of flow thru the refugium like in mine, that setup will push the sand around. I had a sump with that design before. I will post mine tomorrow, once I get the hang of this google sketcher, lol. Always having to learn a new program, lol.

[bitts]

Totally go for the 3 piece overflow. Could do a coast to coast or at least largish one to improve skimming. Also good silicone is a great investment. If painting the overflow use black silicone.

 

 

As for the sump. The self can be for a number of things. Frags. Foam. Whatever. The placement of the inlet from the return chamber can be set to what ever height is need to best met the needs. I have found in mine that with out it. That if the water line gets low there is a strong downward current that stirs up my sand. This setup should prevent that while helping to keep detrius in the water column.

[DimePieceReef]

Thanks again peeps! Once again your input is so much appreciated. However, I have come across some misfortune. The irony of it is it involves a pump and water..and this pump which was a condensation pump for my AC crapped out and now I have water and mildew everywhere in my finished basement. Of course it had too happen when I was on vacay too. As of now though I have to tend to getting this resolved. Hopefully it wont take too long...but I cant even touch this project without the basement being back in order. Remember wifey likes dry floors.

[bitts]

just remember that no mater what. a dry tank will always be there for you. waiting longingly for your return, while never complaning.

[Meengineer0128]

Thanks again peeps! Once again your input is so much appreciated. However, I have come across some misfortune. The irony of it is it involves a pump and water..and this pump which was a condensation pump for my AC crapped out and now I have water and mildew everywhere in my finished basement. Of course it had too happen when I was on vacay too. As of now though I have to tend to getting this resolved. Hopefully it wont take too long...but I cant even touch this project without the basement being back in order. Remember wifey likes dry floors.

Ha, bitts is right. Just think how low maintenance your tank is right now!!! Enjoy it.

 

Sorry to hear about the basement.

 

Thanks again peeps! Once again your input is so much appreciated. However, I have come across some misfortune. The irony of it is it involves a pump and water..and this pump which was a condensation pump for my AC crapped out and now I have water and mildew everywhere in my finished basement. Of course it had too happen when I was on vacay too. As of now though I have to tend to getting this resolved. Hopefully it wont take too long...but I cant even touch this project without the basement being back in order. Remember wifey likes dry floors.

Ha, bitts is right. Just think how low maintenance your tank is right now!!! Enjoy it.

 

Sorry to hear about the basement.

[bitts]

Ha, bitts is right.

 

 

Now, can you get my wife to believe it.

 

 

 

Dude sucks about the basement. Sorry.

[DimePieceReef]

Your rite guys. Tanks are very loyal...lol. I still have to worry about my soon to be 10 gallon ex-tank though. It blows too because she( 10 gal) is in the basement and I have no choice but to mix ammonia in my shampooer for the carpets in order to kill the mold/mildew. So Im concerned about the fumes. Im trying to place a blanket on top of her(10gal) every time I clean the rugs(I do this when the lights are off of course). I have already shampooed once but I plan on doing it at least 2 more times to ensure I get the carpets completly clean and to make the other her(wifey) happy. Good news is I shouldnt have to tear up or down anything so I should be able to get back to my new girl(20 long) shortly.

[Meengineer0128]

Your rite guys. Tanks are very loyal...lol. I still have to worry about my soon to be 10 gallon ex-tank though. It blows too because she( 10 gal) is in the basement and I have no choice but to mix ammonia in my shampooer for the carpets in order to kill the mold/mildew. So Im concerned about the fumes. Im trying to place a blanket on top of her(10gal) every time I clean the rugs(I do this when the lights are off of course). I have already shampooed once but I plan on doing it at least 2 more times to ensure I get the carpets completly clean and to make the other her(wifey) happy. Good news is I shouldnt have to tear up or down anything so I should be able to get back to my new girl(20 long) shortly.

 

I doubt that any ammonia will get into the tank. If its like most shampooers it shouldn't mist too much.

[bitts]

Even if it does. an establesed tank should handle a small spike. The bacteria that take care of ammonia should respond well.

[bitts]

The other things I can think of would be to add things that are all ways a no no because they cause a biuld up of nitrates. From braking ammonia/nitrites down to quickly. Glass beads, biowheel, so on.

 

While not something that would be normal desired. Nitrates are not as harmful as the others.

[DimePieceReef]

Ok I was finally able to find some time to do a few things. As I promised here are some pics then I have some questions for ya peeps.

 

drain plumbing

return plumbing

sump/fuge

external durso

return in sump view

drain in sump view

overflow box not glued yet

GE II black silicone

 

I have already tested the whole system with water but I have yet to cement any of the pvc until hearing the thoughts of my reef peeps. Im also unsure if the GE II is reef safe. Ive heard mixed reviews and was hoping for your guys thoughts on that as well b4 I pull the trigger. This is also the reason why I havent glued in my overflow box. Do you guys think 4x7 bottom panel, 3x7 front panel and 3x4 side panel is a big enough weir? Also do you guys think it is ok to have the hartford loop slant like I have it? All thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again dudes!

[bitts]

A true Hartford loop needs a stand pipe added. But what you have will still work.

To add a stand pipe it Should go.

 

Drain pipe

Ball valve

U bend

Tee (change) with stand pipe

90* off tee

Down pipe

 

Add to the tee a stand pipe with the top above the sump by a couple inches. Will look like that durso above. In the setup it looks like, at least how I would do it would be. Tee > 45* > 8"ish stand pipe. With the down pipe coming of the side from the tee.

 

 

Personally not sure about ge-II. May have mold stuff in it, check. Other than that should be fine.

 

Like the sump.

 

Return plumbing could lose the 90*s at the pumps out put to become more efficient. They limit flow & may incress power needs. But they do lower out put which may be desired.

 

That overflow box looks great. I'd say do it

[C-Rad]

The other things I can think of would be to add things that are all ways a no no because they cause a biuld up of nitrates. From braking ammonia/nitrites down to quickly. Glass beads, biowheel, so on.

I've never heard a satisfactory explanation of the commonly held belief that things like glass beads, bio-wheels, or bio-balls "cause a build up of nitrates". You say that it's from breaking ammonia/nitrites down "too quickly", but I don't see how that makes sense. Slow or fast, wouldn't you end up with the same total amount of nitrates, since you would be starting with the same amount of food (waste => ammonia => nitrites)? Bio-balls (which I'll use as a catch all term for "no-no's" like glass beads, bio-wheels, etc) can't create nitrates out of nothing; what does speed of conversion from amonia/nitrites to nitrates have to do with the total amount of nitrates produced?

 

Live rock still has a big advantage over bio-balls in that live rock goes a step further and converts some nitrates to harmless nitrogen gas, while bio-balls do nothing to reduce nitrates, allowing more nitrates to build up between water changes. Is that what you are referring to? That's why I always design in a Remote Deep Sand Bed (RDSB) to process nitrates into nitrogen gas, when I choose to use bio-balls instead of live rock.

 

The other problem with bio-balls, etc., is pilot error, and shouldn't be blamed on bio-balls. Without a fine, and frequently changed, pre-filter, food particles and detritus will be trapped and "build up" in the bio-balls and act as a place to store junk that will eventually break down and released as nitrates into the water down the road. In this situation, organic matierial that would otherwise be removed by skimming, eaten by clean up crew, or in some other way be completely broken down into nitrate within a few days, gets caught in the nooks and cranies of the bio-balls and is allowd to hang around, like credit card debt, to be broken down a few weeks/months later. After six months or a year of artificially low nitrate levels, this slowly decomposing mass of junk contributes a lot of nitrate per week to your tank. Is this what you were talking about? Using a fine pre-filter and cleaning it often prevents this problem (although annually rinsing the bio-balls in tank water to "wash off" any particles that get through/around the pre-filter may be required too)

 

I think it's bad practice to blame the bio-balls, call them "nitrate factories" and tell noobies on the forums never to use them. If you can use live-rock instead, I think it's clearly better than bio balls because it houses both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, and so can remove some nitrates from your sysem. Also, you don't need to clean/replace a filter every two or three days like you do with bio-balls. But if you can't afford live rock, or if it's inappropriate for your system (e.g., it would look stupid in my Southern California cold water biotope tank) then I think bio-balls, used with a frequently changed pre-filter and an RDSB, will provide the same water quality.

 

Am I missing something, or are glass beads, bio-wheels, bio-balls, etc. getting an undeserved bad reputation?

[bitts]

 

 

[Meengineer0128]

Sorry for the late reply. I do not know much about that specific silicone. I will tell you to ELIMINATE the 90 right out of the discharge side of the pump. You are going to put back pressure on the discharge and create cavitation in your pump. It will seem fine, but you will see both a rise in water temp over time and also you will dramatically decrease the life of your pump. If you must put a 90 after the discharge, make sure that you increase the diameter of pipe (i.e. go from 3/4" to 1", you can always reduce down where you go into the tank), and put a straight piece of pipe between the discharge and 90. You should never 90 right out of the pump, I don't care what anyone on this forum says. Even on huge industrial application pumps, you will never see a 90 right out of the discharge.