New to plumbing and drilling

[DimePieceReef]

Once again. Thank you bitts and engine! I think I have decided to go with a herbie style overflow with a sock filter bag to stop the microbubbles in the sump. Should I put a balve on all three pipings? That being the intake, emergency intake and the return. I may also make a bubble trap in the sump. I plan on having 3 chambers in the sump. I have to look into how to build an standard overflow box as well. Can I just glue three pieces of acrylic together with teeth on the top? Or would I be better off purchasing one? Thanks again.

[[]V[]addog]

lots of good info here!

thansk for everyones effort shere. very helpful for us newbs

[Meengineer0128]

Another thought as to the siphon is instead of the aqualifter would be to tap into the return line with some ro tubing and use this to maintain the siphon. Any thoughts engine.

 

This would work. It would be best to tap off of PVC, but this would work. I might actually setup a little mock up today after work and try this out.

 

Gold star for bitts!!!!

[Meengineer0128]

Once again. Thank you bitts and engine! I think I have decided to go with a herbie style overflow with a sock filter bag to stop the microbubbles in the sump. Should I put a balve on all three pipings? That being the intake, emergency intake and the return. I may also make a bubble trap in the sump. I plan on having 3 chambers in the sump. I have to look into how to build an standard overflow box as well. Can I just glue three pieces of acrylic together with teeth on the top? Or would I be better off purchasing one? Thanks again.

 

I wouldn't personally put a valve on a drain. The flow will stop natrually once the water has drained to the top of the level of the overflow box. You will only need a valve on the return, and you could even get away with just using a check valve on your return. The only reason for the valve is to stop water from siphoning back into the pump and sump. I also believe that they sell the entire overflow fixture. On my 150, I just bought a overflow fixture from my LFS and notched the teeth for the overflow myself with my dremel. The only pain was siliconing the inside of the fixture, lol.

[bitts]

Once again. Thank you bitts and engine! I think I have decided to go with a herbie style overflow with a sock filter bag to stop the microbubbles in the sump. Should I put a balve on all three pipings? That being the intake, emergency intake and the return. I may also make a bubble trap in the sump. I plan on having 3 chambers in the sump. I have to look into how to build an standard overflow box as well. Can I just glue three pieces of acrylic together with teeth on the top? Or would I be better off purchasing one? Thanks again.

 

As to which drain/pipe to add the valve to. With the herbie style only the main drain line is restricted. The others are left open. A valve itself is a restriction which is why they are not added, normally.

 

The overflow that is simplest is 2 sided glass no teeth in the corner. Tetth require twice as much distance to create the same size weir, and the longer the weir the better the surface skimming. The inprovement comes lower flow per inch of weir.

 

Would say that a hartford loop followed by a sock should be bomb proof. The loop would cost less than the sock. Probably.

[bitts]

This would work. It would be best to tap off of PVC, but this would work. I might actually setup a little mock up today after work and try this out.

 

Gold star for bitts!!!!

 

Awesome we love gold stars. Thank you.

 

Yeah was just trying to think about what I had ever drained with a siphon. Then it came to me I've only moved like some 40 waterbeds, before I found that you could drain them with a pump. That combined with the weird siphon brakes I used on the 29 off the return line fed into the over flow.

 

If it works reliably this may work wonders.

[DimePieceReef]

Ok Im not sure I fully understand the hartford loop bitts. This is what I got from this link you left in another thread.

 

So from what I see the primary drain is at the bottom back wall of the tank. Then when the water flows out it then takes a 90 up to a T that is connected to the emergency drain at the top back of the tank then takes another 90 back to the sump. Does that sound correct? Or is the emergency drain not even connected? Also if this is correct I would drill a hole at the top T to make it a herbie right? Thanks again.

[Meengineer0128]

Ok Im not sure I fully understand the hartford loop bitts. This is what I got from this link you left in another thread.

 

So from what I see the primary drain is at the bottom back wall of the tank. Then when the water flows out it then takes a 90 up to a T that is connected to the emergency drain at the top back of the tank then takes another 90 back to the sump. Does that sound correct? Or is the emergency drain not even connected? Also if this is correct I would drill a hole at the top T to make it a herbie right? Thanks again.

 

Pard the crudeness of the drawing. I can't seem to get an autocad drawing to post and my PDF writer is on the fritz so I did this with Paintshop pro, lol. What do you think Bitts, a little less complicated and works for what he wants to do.

[bitts]

hartford loop is a drain line that dorps to a u bend(lowest point) then comes up with a section which tees off. water flows through the tee back down to the sump, while air escapes up through the stand pipe. in that link the tank would be the drain pipe.

[DimePieceReef]

Thanks peeps.

Engine. In your diagram the emergency and continuous drain come out the same bulkhead rite? At least that is what the pic looks like. Was that your definition of a hartford loop? Im still confused.

 

Bitts. When you say lowest point. How low do you mean? Also when it comes up to a T does the T have to be higher than the bulkhead? And when it hits the T water will only flow down one side of the T while air escapes the other side of the T rite? Also Im still not sure if the emergency line is in line with the primary with the the hartford loop. Does the hartford loop only apply to the primary drain? Or should both the primary and emergency be designed with two seperate hartford loops? I think Im confusing my self here. Sorry for being such a dumbazz.

[bitts]

Hope this works

 

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...st&id=35057

 

 

Old pic of a hartford loop. Its in the overflow thread post 116.

[DimePieceReef]

Hope this works

 

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...st&id=35057

 

 

Old pic of a hartford loop. Its in the overflow thread post 116.

 

Nice! Yeah I actually seen that pic right after I posted the last. I think I understand it now. One more thing though.

 

Should I make the emergency drain a hartford loop as well?

 

Before I glue or teflon anything Im going to take a pic for you guys to see. However it wont be for a week or so because I have some things I need to take care of first before I can start. Thanks again!

[Meengineer0128]

Thanks peeps.

Engine. In your diagram the emergency and continuous drain come out the same bulkhead rite? At least that is what the pic looks like. Was that your definition of a hartford loop? Im still confused.

 

Bitts. When you say lowest point. How low do you mean? Also when it comes up to a T does the T have to be higher than the bulkhead? And when it hits the T water will only flow down one side of the T while air escapes the other side of the T rite? Also Im still not sure if the emergency line is in line with the primary with the the hartford loop. Does the hartford loop only apply to the primary drain? Or should both the primary and emergency be designed with two seperate hartford loops? I think Im confusing my self here. Sorry for being such a dumbazz.

What I drew up was just a simple drain system. It did not have a hartford loop in there. Anytime I ever had a clogging problem, it always involved the actual hose, not the baffle being clogged itself. With my design, if it does overflow, it will overflow into the emergency drain. I will do a better drawing so it is a little more clear. I use the design on all of my tanks and never had a problem. Also, if you are going to use the filter bag I would stop worrying about the whole microbubble thing. My drain spills into the bag and I have no microbubble problems.

[bitts]

Engine is right that the filter sock should take care of any bubbles that make it through the herbie. The loop is just added noise suppression for the most part or if you find that there are still an extreme amount of bubbles that you would like to be rid of. Some times fine tuning a herbie can just be a bother. The loop helps is all.

[Meengineer0128]

Any progress yet???

[bitts]

not to beat a dead horse but made it to an actual computer so i could give a better example.

 

would personally have a stand pipe on either the first side in stead of the second, or on both.

 

 

any updates would love to talk about the planning. after all thats the fun part.

[DimePieceReef]

Thanks a lot guys. No updates as of yet. I just ordered a third bulkhead and Im still trying to decide exactly what I want to do. I will be away from home for a few days but I plan on taking some pics of the build b4 I glue or teflon anything.

[Meengineer0128]

Thanks a lot guys. No updates as of yet. I just ordered a third bulkhead and Im still trying to decide exactly what I want to do. I will be away from home for a few days but I plan on taking some pics of the build b4 I glue or teflon anything.

Pictures goooooooooddd

[bitts]

Mmm...

Picture's

 

 

Something I've always found to be useful is schetchup if only for wasting hundreds of hours. In a way that still seems useful.

[Meengineer0128]

Mmm...

Picture's

 

 

Something I've always found to be useful is schetchup if only for wasting hundreds of hours. In a way that still seems useful.

 

I use autocad and solidworks at work and I can never get my drawings on sketchup to look as good, lol.fcuking free programs, lol

[bitts]

Lol

 

Yeah. But the price is right.

[DimePieceReef]

Ok I keep changing my mind. I think I may want to do what this guy did in this thread. I believe it's post 15.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...240479&st=0

 

Whatcha guys think? Is this still considered a herbie without a standpipe?

 

Also I dont think one of my questions was ever answered about the two drains.

 

Should they both drain out seperatly then T into a hartford loop? Or should just the main drain have a hartford loop with the emergency drain being I dunno another seperate hartford loop?

 

Sorry I think Im over thinking this whole project. I now have all three 1' slip X slip bulkheads and I think I feel comfortable to drill. I just want to make sure I make the right decisions. Thanks again peeps!

[Meengineer0128]

Ok I keep changing my mind. I think I may want to do what this guy did in this thread. I believe it's post 15.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...240479&st=0

 

Whatcha guys think? Is this still considered a herbie without a standpipe?

 

Also I dont think one of my questions was ever answered about the two drains.

 

Should they both drain out seperatly then T into a hartford loop? Or should just the main drain have a hartford loop with the emergency drain being I dunno another seperate hartford loop?

 

Sorry I think Im over thinking this whole project. I now have all three 1' slip X slip bulkheads and I think I feel comfortable to drill. I just want to make sure I make the right decisions. Thanks again peeps!

I think drilling two drains is over redundant personally. I have had a single drain on my 150 for 4 years now without a single clogging problem. Personally, your taking twice the chance of cracking the glass. I would keep it simple personally.

[DimePieceReef]

I think drilling two drains is over redundant personally. I have had a single drain on my 150 for 4 years now without a single clogging problem. Personally, your taking twice the chance of cracking the glass. I would keep it simple personally.

 

 

Thats a good point engine. Ill should have my mind made up by Sunday. I plan on drilling then .

 

Do you think one return line is sufficient for a 20L?

 

I have a quiet one pump @ 581gph going up at least 30 inches.

[bitts]

1). Hartford loop is only needed on the main drain line. And then only if the herbie still makes a little noise/prevent salt creep.

 

2). In the thread linked above. Post 13 is my old herbie. Post 15 is also a herbie, just has less room for tuning the water line above the drain to prevent bubbles.

Herbie is simply put. any drain system with a back up drain point above the main.

 

3). 581 should make it a 2200. Running one now @ about 36". Getting around 300gph on the 29. Good pump for the money. Had on the 10 for a couple years.

 

4). If you do the backup drain. it just needs to make it to the sump. If it ever has flow ideally it would make noise. so I have mine set with a couple inches between it & the sumps water line.

 

 

5). When ever you set up a tanks drain system there are compromises. Single drains clog with no backup. Multiple setups are more likely to crack. Siphon's lose siphon. Its just a ? Of which risk you feel comfortable with.