Just joined the clam crazy

[cheryl jordan]

Sigh.

 

All mammals birth their young live, produce milk, and have fur. Oh! Wait! The Duck Billed Platypus! Damn! An exception to the rule. Just like your 8 maxima's that you keep on the sand bed. Or the Crocea I kept in a pico under PC lighting. Exceptions.

 

I don't want to start using dirty words or insults so I will keep it to the following:

 

Telling him or others its no problem to keep small clams or any clams for that matter, or that its easy, and that they should do it is irresponsible. Since he did buy it it is important to arm him with as much information as we can to help him make sure that he has the best chance possible to keep his clam alive and happy.

I sense some frustration regarding the purchase and husbandry of clams 3 inches and under. You are obviously experienced so I want to know black and white.

1. Do not purchase small clams, because mortality rate is high, and why?

2. Supplemental feeding or not, and with what?

I am open to all ideas, just provide what worked for you or did not work for you. Should you not buy small clams, what? Looking for an answer thats all.

[MedicBMC]

maximas are rock boring clams? which means if I put mine in the sand he will bore into my glass and crack my glass?!

[Urchinhead]

maximas are rock boring clams? which means if I put mine in the sand he will bore into my glass and crack my glass?!

 

No. It means that he will attach to your glass if he doesn't get a mess of sand in his gills/intake valve and die.

 

agreed BUT......exceptions to the rule aside there's no reason to take a dumb risk by placing a clam in the sand bed

 

Um... Yeah... That's what I said.

[Rockfish]

No. It means that he will attach to your glass if he doesn't get a mess of sand in his gills/intake valve and die.

 

 

 

Um... Yeah... That's what I said.

 

 

 

and i agreed with you!!!

[ryeguy28]

I vote to lift the kraylen ban

 

me 2

[TJ_Burton]

I think we should be more specific - for example, gigas and derasa clams on the sand bed is quite common, and not an issue.

 

Who wants to list off the clams that are not tolerant of being placed on a sand bed? Also we should clarify in saying that crushed coral and thicker substrates will not be an issue in most cases. It is literally the "sand" or "fine" substrates that will cause potential issues with rock boring species.

[Clownshoes]

I agree that they are more hardy than most people make them out to be. They have to be or else they would have never survived for millions of years!!

[MedicBMC]

k thanks for the clarification.....I am probably not going to put my clam on my sand bed. I have Oolite and the last thing I want is for some to end up in his intake.

[nemmy]

Whats with all the hostility in this section tonight?

[glennr1978]

75 gallons is my minimum with tangs....

 

why do you ask?

 

 

just curious.

[basser1]

Whats with all the hostility in this section tonight?

 

 

You know how it is when you have all of the clam experts showing up, LOL!!

 

Seriously though, I have an ORA maxima that I've owned for over 3 years. Bought it from my LFS when it was less than 2". It has grown quite a bit and I've never fed it anything. ORA has a reputation for selling hardy livestock, corals and fish for example.

 

Just wanted to add, there's no way I could even begin to keep a clam on my sand bed. My bluespot jawfish would create heck with it, especially the way it blows sand all around!

[Urchinhead]

I sense some frustration regarding the purchase and husbandry of clams 3 inches and under. You are obviously experienced so I want to know black and white.

 

Nope. No frustration at all. What I am frustrated about is people giving bad advice and/or egging other people on to do things that harm the animals under our care as well as cost people money.

 

On the subject of black and white... There isn't one. As with my remark regarding mammals the point is that there are exceptions to the rules. However there is also a reason why its considered a 'rule'. Usually because for the majority (over 51%) of the time its what happens.

 

1. Do not purchase small clams, because mortality rate is high, and why?

 

Frankly I could post about 10 paragraphs on this going deep into detail on the biology and physiology of the clam as well as the legal issues etc. but am going to refrain. In short they are too young and thus more susceptible to and less tolerant of changes to their environment. The rule of thumb is 2" minimum and 3"+ being optimal.

 

I am also going to add that under CITES (see Appendix II) under 2" is illegal to export.

 

2. Supplemental feeding or not, and with what?

 

Wow! You are just *ASKING* for a holy war here!

 

That said I believe the published scientific and commercial aquaculture literature as well as the biology and physiology of how most multi-cell creatures gain energy points to the benefit of feeding. Others claim there is no value to it and that the larger clams are totally reliant on their symbiotic zoanthelle. To that I would respond with "Then why does the clam have a digestive tract that is able to process and obtain energy from zooplankton in the 50 to 200 nanometer range and continues to be both active and grows as the clam does?"

 

I am open to all ideas, just provide what worked for you or did not work for you. Should you not buy small clams, what? Looking for an answer thats all.

 

That's fine. I am glad that you are open to information and that you are questioning things. Thats important. Caveat: what works for me or someone else may not work for you.

 

For further reading on the subject I recommend the FAQ's at Wet Web Media:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tridacnidart.htm

 

As well as the book on clams by James Fatherree:

http://www.fatherree.com/james/

 

and i agreed with you!!!

 

Oh. Sorry. I thought you were missing that I said that...

 

Hell yeah! Bring Kraylen back!

 

I think we should be more specific - for example, gigas and derasa clams on the sand bed is quite common, and not an issue.

 

Who wants to list off the clams that are not tolerant of being placed on a sand bed? Also we should clarify in saying that crushed coral and thicker substrates will not be an issue in most cases. It is literally the "sand" or "fine" substrates that will cause potential issues with rock boring species.

 

Ok.

 

Derasa, Squamosa, Giga are the sand bed clams and do not belong on rocks.

 

Maxima and Crocea are rock boring and do not belong on the sand.

 

And its fine substrates. Large grain sand is ok.

[Jacobnano]

I R DA CLAM MASTER!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding...

[cheryl jordan]

You know how it is when you have all of the clam experts showing up, LOL!!

 

Seriously though, I have an ORA maxima that I've owned for over 3 years. Bought it from my LFS when it was less than 2". It has grown quite a bit and I've never fed it anything. ORA has a reputation for selling hardy livestock, corals and fish for example.

 

Just wanted to add, there's no way I could even begin to keep a clam on my sand bed. My bluespot jawfish would create heck with it, especially the way it blows sand all around!

Ok basser I see you obviously have had great results, but I want to know why. I gave up on small clams about 5 years ago. I have no problems with clams over 3 inches. One person post "do not advice people to not buy small clams", Ok. The next expert says small clams will mostly likely die. Which is it, yours did not die and yet the expert are now saying to provide supplemental feedings. I know there is never a clear cut answer but two complete different answers, common on.

[TJ_Burton]

I am also going to add that under CITES (see Appendix II) under 2" is illegal to export.

 

Is this for both wild and aqua cultured clams? Does the location they are being exported from play a role at all?

 

I am curious as I haven't looked into this at all.

[basser1]

Ok basser I see you obviously have had great results, but I want to know why. I gave up on small clams about 5 years ago. I have no problems with clams over 3 inches. One person post "do not advice people to not buy small clams", Ok. The next so called expert says small clams will mostly likely die. Which is it, yours did not die and yet the expert are now saying to provide supplemental feedings. I know there is never a clear cut answer but two complete different answers, common on.

 

 

As others have said, I believe to increase your chances of successful clam keeping is really simple. They require proper lighting, and stable water conditons . Plus by getting a healthy specimen to start with, you increase your chances for success even more. As stated earlier, I got mine from my LFS, so I could see for myself how it was reacting to stimulus and check for any nasties, pyramid snails and PM. I test my water regularly, especially for Ca. In my tank, I also have SPS corals and I will dose Ca., in addition to doing weekly water changes. I don't feed and that's pretty much it. No need to make it any more complicated than it needs to be. I know you are an experienced hobbyist cheryl, as I see your posts here and on other forums. I think you should do well.

[epicfish]

Whats with all the hostility in this section tonight?

 

Pent up sexual frustration.

[cheryl jordan]

As others have said, I believe to increase your chances of successful clam keeping is really simple. They require proper lighting, and stable water conditons . Plus by getting a healthy specimen to start with, you increase your chances for success even more. As stated earlier, I got mine from my LFS, so I could see for myself how it was reacting to stimulus and check for any nasties, pyramid snails and PM. I test my water regularly, especially for Ca. In my tank, I also have SPS corals and I will dose Ca., in addition to doing weekly water changes. I don't feed and that's pretty much it. No need to make it any more complicated than it needs to be. I know you are an experienced hobbyist cheryl, as I see your posts here and on other forums. I think you should do well.

Thanks bassser, I probably would if I tried aqain. I am just frustrated, sometimes I get ahold of something and it has to make logical sense to me. But you know I do all the things listed above, have nice sps and great clams, but I want baby clams. Then again I would also like a trip to Belize, not going to happen any time soon. Night all

[Urchinhead]

Is this for both wild and aqua cultured clams? Does the location they are being exported from play a role at all?

 

I am curious as I haven't looked into this at all.

 

Wild caught for sure. Foreign Aqua cultured... It is my understanding that it is illegal to import clams for the hobbyist trade into the US that are under 2". My source on this is via a ICE enforcement officer. They seized a shipment at LAX from Vietnam about 6 months ago and Fish & Game + ICE have been making a big stink over clam shipments since then.

 

Domestic Aquaculture... Odds are that its not restricted since its on Dr F&S.

[GT AQUATICS]

urchinhead:

 

you are saying it is basically impossible to keep because of their "extremely high mortality rate" Accusing me of giving advice that does not benefit will get you nowhere. i should accuse of you doing the same right? . You can read black and white all day long but when it comes down to it these clams arent as fragile as you think.

 

I have no secrets to success, but it seems odd that i go against every rule and i still have 100% success. Why is that? I keep my maxis and crocs on the sandbed, dont feed them manually, and i purchase less than 2" clams. There is no need to see who can fling poo the farthest. I am just stating my 100% success rate with these clams and i will disagree with anyone til my death who claims they are nearly impossible to keep

[Urchinhead]

Thanks bassser, I probably would if I tried aqain. I am just frustrated, sometimes I get ahold of something and it has to make logical sense to me. But you know I do all the things listed above, have nice sps and great clams, but I want baby clams. Then again I would also like a trip to Belize, not going to happen any time soon. Night all

 

And I would like to look like Brad Pitt. Also not going to happen.

 

Basser's clam is getting its nutrition somewhere. And its not just from lighting.

 

Fenner, Fatherree, Calfo, and so on have said it plus Biology & Physiology tell us that clams have digestive systems that mature as they do ergo they do eat and don't just live on sunlight. Hell SPS corals eat! Both can survive on light alone but they do not necessarily thrive. Both also need a small amount of N & P. That's why the ultra low nutrient systems use supplements.

[Urchinhead]

urchinhead:

 

you are saying it is basically impossible to keep because of their "extremely high mortality rate" Accusing me of giving advice that does not benefit will get you nowhere. i should accuse of you doing the same right? . You can read black and white all day long but when it comes down to it these clams arent as fragile as you think.

 

Please show me where I said they were impossible to keep. Please also show me where my advice in terms of husbandry was bad. I doubt you will be able to but if I am wrong I will be happy to admit it and apologize.

 

I have no secrets to success, but it seems odd that i go against every rule and i still have 100% success. Why is that? I keep my maxis and crocs on the sandbed, dont feed them manually, and i purchase less than 2" clams. There is no need to see who can fling poo the farthest. I am just stating my 100% success rate with these clams and i will disagree with anyone til my death who claims they are nearly impossible to keep

 

Please check your temper at the door. I realize that you are being defensive but at the end of the day you did give bad advice. No poo to be flung.

 

I am happy that you have had such great success. As I think I mentioned I have kept a clam in a pico under PC lighting. My one clam under PC lighting in a Pico and your 8 in a tank unfed and on the sand does not make a reliable sampling nor a claim of success. Especially when it flies in the face of actual scientific studies and empirical evidence.

 

I also never said that clams under 2" are nearly impossible to keep. Nor did I say you couldn't keep rock boring clams on the sand bed. I said it wasn't recommended and that it was difficult. There is a difference.

 

 

 

By the way before you jump up and down about what scientific studies and empirical evidence please click on the links I reference above from Wet Web Media et al. You will find your answers there. In the references section.

[farkwar]

Who's kraylen?

[GT AQUATICS]

Please show me where I said they were impossible to keep. Please also show me where my advice in terms of husbandry was bad. I doubt you will be able to but if I am wrong I will be happy to admit it and apologize.

 

 

 

Please check your temper at the door. I realize that you are being defensive but at the end of the day you did give bad advice. No poo to be flung.

 

I am happy that you have had such great success. As I think I mentioned I have kept a clam in a pico under PC lighting. My one clam under PC lighting in a Pico and your 8 in a tank unfed and on the sand does not make a reliable sampling nor a claim of success. Especially when it flies in the face of actual scientific studies and empirical evidence.

 

I also never said that clams under 2" are nearly impossible to keep. Nor did I say you couldn't keep rock boring clams on the sand bed. I said it wasn't recommended and that it was difficult. There is a difference.

 

 

 

By the way before you jump up and down about what scientific studies and empirical evidence please click on the links I reference above from Wet Web Media et al. You will find your answers there. In the references section.

im not going to argue with you, nor am i presenting an attitude. If you would like me to i will. It is not just my 8 in one tank, its the 100+ successfully kept and raised over the years.

 

When you say "extremely high mortality rate" what do you want people to expect? 1:100 live, 1:1000? The statement of extremely high mortality rate defines death rate of the greatest possible degree or extent or intensity. Now tell me that doesnt imply impossibility.

 

I do not need to read from any of your links as i feel they will not benefit me at all.

 

 

edit: you said incredibly high mortality rate not extreme

[basser1]

And I would like to look like Brad Pitt. Also not going to happen.

 

Basser's clam is getting its nutrition somewhere. And its not just from lighting.

 

Fenner, Fatherree, Calfo, and so on have said it plus Biology & Physiology tell us that clams have digestive systems that mature as they do ergo they do eat and don't just live on sunlight. Hell SPS corals eat! Both can survive on light alone but they do not necessarily thrive. Both also need a small amount of N & P. That's why the ultra low nutrient systems use supplements.

 

And believe me with my bio-load, my SPS and clam are thriving!