DIY High Power LED Retrofit

[Waterproof]

That'll be a HUGE help, WP. Question about your 12-LED layout, how would you do the white/blue placement to get a good blending. When I was ordering parts, I initially started planning on a 12-LED setup, to get the most I could out of the two drivers. However, I couldn't come up with a good layout, so ended up ordering and planning for the 11-LED system, like the one in your original post. I was worried that a 12-LED layout like the one above would end up with the light looking uneven.

 

Again, thanks for all of your work!

I think either one of these would work. The top layout might be a better option. I prefer to put my blues in the corners, which gives a nice rolloff of brightness towards the edges of the tank. It makes the center of your tank (where you'll likely have most of your rock & coral) pop.

 

Remember, you can try one layout and if you don't like it, move some LEDs around. If you really wanted to be prepared, you could drill holes for both the 11 and 12 LED layouts. Then, you wouldn't have to go back and drill/tap more holes later if you wanted to change the configuration. Here's the combined layout. The top and bottom rows are constant. The green circles would provide an 11 LED setup, whereas the pink circles would provide a 12 LED layout.

 

While I'm at it, here is the combined layout for the 9, 11, and 12 LED configurations. If you really weren't sure how many LEDs you'd want, you could drill/tap all these holes before you started mounting the LEDs.

[mdavis203]

Now I REALLY like that top layout, with the blues in the corners. I think I'm going to order another royal blue LED (already have the 6 whites and 5 royal blues on order for the 11-LED layout). When my heat sink comes in (just ordered it this morning), I'll go ahead and tap for both the 11 and 12 layout. Great idea, WP.

 

Edit: Ordered some Arctic Silver thermal paste while I was getting the other royal blue. I didn't realize they sold it at ledsupply.com. That's good stuff. I used it on my last PC build. It really helps with heat transfer.

[mdavis203]

Did you use any optics on your LED's? I didn't notice you mention them in your post.

 

If I understand what I've read on this topic in the last several days, optics are added to the LED's to focus the light deeper, albeit narrower. Are these needed in a tank as shallow as a BC14 (with an 11 or 12 LED array, like we've been discussing)? Would they improve the lighting, or would it be detrimental due to the reduction in overlap?

[Waterproof]

Did you use any optics on your LED's? I didn't notice you mention them in your post.

 

If I understand what I've read on this topic in the last several days, optics are added to the LED's to focus the light deeper, albeit narrower. Are these needed in a tank as shallow as a BC14 (with an 11 or 12 LED array, like we've been discussing)? Would they improve the lighting, or would it be detrimental due to the reduction in overlap?

I am NOT using optics. They aren't necessary in a BC-14 because of the depth. I'd only suggest them if you wanted PAR above 300 on the sandbed. Most likely, this isn't the case. You're correct, the optics focus the light just like a flashlight. If a flashlight has a wide light setting, it will not throw the light far, but if you focus the beam, you can then light up objects further away. LEDs & optics work the same way (both for brightness and PAR). I think if you added optics then you'd need to add more LEDs to fill in the color gaps. Also, you'd want a larger heatsink to get the tightly focussed light to reach the corners of the tank. You might be able to go w/ 80-deg optics and be fine. Not sure. Like I said, I don't think you need them for a BC-14. Maybe for a BC-29 depending on what you want to keep in the tank.

[mdavis203]

I thought that was the case. I wasn't planning on using them on mine unless they were needed, but I saw them being discussed in another thread and wanted to make sure I understood correctly.

 

I don't have any need for 300 PAR at the sand bed. If I do put SPS in it (haven't decided if I want to fool with them again, since I always hated trying to keep calc levels stable), I'll put them on the rock.

[tyty22]

Thanks waterproof, what do you about a 6 led layout for my 5.5 gallon.

This way i would only need one buck puck and 6 leds.(3&3) this setup would cost a little more the $100 less if i could salvage some parts.

[Waterproof]

Thanks waterproof, what do you about a 6 led layout for my 5.5 gallon.

This way i would only need one buck puck and 6 leds.(3&3) this setup would cost a little more the $100 less if i could salvage some parts.

 

I'm not sure if 6 LEDs will cut it. The issue is getting adequate light coverage. deepdvnarq is doing an LED array over a 3gal eclipse. He used 7 LEDs over his tank and was having some issues with color blending. His tank dimensions are about 10"x8". Here's a link:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...187094&st=0

 

 

What are your tank dimensions? If you can raise the LEDs off the water a bit then you'd probably be fine. You can always add more if it doesn't privide the light you want.

What lighting do you have now?

 

The only problem with using a single buckpuck is you won't be able to dial in a specific color. You'll be stuck running all the LEDs (blue & white) at the same strength.

[tyty22]

The tanks demensions are 16x8 and 10in high. right now i have a 70watt metal halide retro 6inchs above the waters surface. and if i was to do a led retro i would retro fit a heat sink into the the hindged part of the hood that i use now.

 

Which would put the leds 6inch above the waters surface spread out on a 12in x 6inch heat sink.

How big are the LEDs from side to side of the star board?

 

I thought about that problem with dimming the LEDs but after reading the cree led data sheat. i found that The white LEDs can be adjusted between 5000k and 10000k

The royal blue LEDs can be adjusted between 450nm and 465nm

 

Therfore if i was to dim the LEDs down i would get a more yellow look and if i turned them up i would get a more blue look. i pretty sure thats how it would work but i could be wrong

 

How come you used the Royal Blue LEDs instead of the Blue LEDs?

[evilc66]

The tanks demensions are 16x8 and 10in high. right now i have a 70watt metal halide retro 6inchs above the waters surface. and if i was to do a led retro i would retro fit a heat sink into the the hindged part of the hood that i use now.

 

Which would put the leds 6inch above the waters surface spread out on a 12in x 6inch heat sink.

How big are the LEDs from side to side of the star board?

 

I thought about that problem with dimming the LEDs but after reading the cree led data sheat. i found that The white LEDs can be adjusted between 5000k and 10000k

The royal blue LEDs can be adjusted between 450nm and 465nm

 

Doesn't work that way. The kelvin ranges you see are the options you can order. Typically, you are getting 6500K cool whites and 450nm royal blues. Changing the drive current doesn't change the color temp in that regard.

 

Therfore if i was to dim the LEDs down i would get a more yellow look and if i turned them up i would get a more blue look. i pretty sure thats how it would work but i could be wrong

 

How come you used the Royal Blue LEDs instead of the Blue LEDs?

 

More fluorescence, deeper color.

[Waterproof]

I thought about that problem with dimming the LEDs but after reading the cree led data sheat. i found that The white LEDs can be adjusted between 5000k and 10000k

The royal blue LEDs can be adjusted between 450nm and 465nm

 

Therfore if i was to dim the LEDs down i would get a more yellow look and if i turned them up i would get a more blue look. i pretty sure thats how it would work but i could be wrong

 

How come you used the Royal Blue LEDs instead of the Blue LEDs?

Hmmm, I think you'll definitely want more than 6 LEDs, especially if you already have a 70w MH. From your avatar, I thought you had a filtration area partitioned within you tank, rather than added on. On a 12x6 heatsink, the 6 LEDs would be too spread out to get a uniform color. Plus, you'd see some major dips and peaks in your PAR readings.

 

As for the color, the 5,000-10,000K and 450nm-465nm are a matter of the tinting or chromaticity, not the operating current. For example, you can buy cool white XR-E LEDs from the WG chromaticity category that will have a color of 5,700-6,500 or you can get cool whites in the WA category that is 8,300K-10,000K. See the atached pdf. As for the royal blues, you can get them in D3, D4 or D5. The D3, which is what I have, is between 450-455nm, whereas the D5 is between 460-465nm. I got the royal blues because they are the closest to true actinic, whereas the "blue" LEDs have a higher nm (+465 nm). I think 12 LEDs would work better for you. You might be able to get by w/ only 9 or 11.

XLamp7090XR_E_B_L_1_.pdf

[deepdvnarq]

Listen to waterproof and Evil. I have 7 LEDs on my array, but i am probaly going to add more for better color blending. probably going up to 11 or 12. don't get me wrong, it is light years better than what was in there before, but it can be even better. my initial problem was that the leds are to close to the water and i didn't use enough. it is better to over do it. you can always turn it down with the pot. i also do recommend that you use at least 2 buckpucks so you have control over your kelvin.

[The Propagator]

How would a person judge accurately what Kelvin your were adjusting to ?

[evilc66]

Like how accurate MH bulb kelvin ratings are? Eyeball it to what you think looks good. It's a different setup here compared to MH. You know what the spectrum is that is being emitted. All you are doing is changing the ratio, not shifting up and down in the spectrum.

[tyty22]

alright, all 3 of you make sense. so in order to make a good setup it would require more LEDs and another buckpuck. unless i didn't want to have control of the LEDs which is one of the best parts about them

 

although this project would end up costing quite a bit so sadly i doesn't look like i will be setting up one of my own very soon. Not atleast until i have the money to spare in order to do it RIGHT.

 

by the way waterproof my avatar is the design of my 20long. which also brings me to the fact that if im going to do an expensive LED system i would rather build a 24inch one to use on my 20long.

 

ill just let all you guys build setups and then later on build my own system stealing all your good ideas and making one SUPER LED SETUP! muwhahaha (evil laugh)

[The Propagator]

Like how accurate MH bulb kelvin ratings are? Eyeball it to what you think looks good. It's a different setup here compared to MH. You know what the spectrum is that is being emitted. All you are doing is changing the ratio, not shifting up and down in the spectrum.

 

No what I mean is its really easy to get into the wrong kelvin by eye on either side of the scale with out a meter. You get to blue and nothing grows. There is a fine line between 20K where all things seems to do well and a tad over where nothing but deep water coral grow. Same for the opposite end of the spectrum. To red etc.. etc.....

[evilc66]

Sure, but PAR levels for royal blues are just as high as they are for cool whites. The corals don't need the red spectrum to survive photosynthetically. The problem we used to have was that the only way to get high PAR was to run a full spectrum bulb, as the heavy blue ones (or actinic) didn't produce the same PAR watt for watt. I don't think we have the same limitations with LEDs anymore.

[The Propagator]

Look into that for me if you know the right places to look. ( I haven't got a clue )

That's the one thing that's held me back honestly. Just not knowing if the PAR is still there at the needed depth with the desired kelvin in the 20K range.

With halides to maintain a decent par in the 20K region you need 250 watts or higher.

[evilc66]

Well, think of it this way. You need X PAR for certain corals right? The peak response for corals is in the 430-450nm range, with a small secondary peak around 650nm. Lets say for example that the fixture is capable of 200 PAR at a given distance, with the work being shared equally by the white and royal blues. The royal blues create as much PAR as the whites, so even if you have the royals at 100% power, and the whites at 50% power to give you a really heavy 20K look, you are still at 75% of the maximum PAR that the fixture can produce. You still satisfy the small 650nm peak with the 50% power on the whites.

 

Again, unlike MH when you increase the color temperature, you don't shift the spectrum, just the ratio.

[The Propagator]

Ok now it makes sense.

 

Call me thick I guess

[evilc66]

It's just a different way of thinking about things. We have been conditioned kind of by the way that our current light sources work, but LEDs throw a completely different spin on things.

[mdavis203]

Tonight I drilled and tapped my holes and mounted my LED's to the heat sink. I went with the 12-LED setup, but I went ahead and drilled/tapped the holes for if I wanted to go with the 11-LED array later.

 

A few days ago, I ordered Nanotuner's R2 Lunar Light. Have you looked at this? I haven't received it yet, so I'm not sure if it's going to be too thick to install with the splash guard without putting some spacers in or something.

 

Quick question, WP... What size project box is that you used? It looks like about the perfect size. Do you stash it in your stand, or is it mounted in the hood?

[Waterproof]

A few days ago, I ordered Nanotuner's R2 Lunar Light. Have you looked at this? I haven't received it yet, so I'm not sure if it's going to be too thick to install with the splash guard without putting some spacers in or something.

 

Quick question, WP... What size project box is that you used? It looks like about the perfect size. Do you stash it in your stand, or is it mounted in the hood?

I think it'll be too thick to go over the heatsink. I see 2 options...1) mount it to either side of the heatsink; 2) grind down the plastic mounting pegs in the hood a bit before mounting the heatsink. This would make the heatsink sit closer to the plastic (black, not acrylic) hood. Then you might have enough room. That's a pretty pricey moonlight. It might be overkill for the BC-14. Let me know what you think once it's installed.

 

I'm not sure what size my project box is. I'll measure it and let you know. It's the smallest you can go and still get everything to fit.

[Waterproof]

The LEDs have been running for several weeks now and I really like them. The color is great; the corals are happy; the tank is running cooler, etc., etc., etc.

 

Some of my corals are still adjusting. My zoas are shrunken pretty tiny. Hopefully they'll fill in soon. Anyway, I think my green ricordea is a good example of the increased PAR that my corals are recieving. This ric was the first coral I bought for my tank. Here's a pic of it when I first put it in the tank (March 2008)

 

Over the next few months, the edges began to expand and the colors washed out.

 

About a month ago, the ric (now with about 3 mouths) had turned into an over-expanded monstrosity.

 

Once I installed the LEDs, the ric shrunk considerably and shifted backwards towards the shade. Here's the new size:

 

I think this indicates that the LED upgrade was in fact an "upgrade" in lighting. Rics can take a decent amount of light, and mine seems to be getting about all it can take...all the way on the bottom of my tank.

 

Other than this, my torch looks great. My candycane and trumpet are dividing like crazy, and my pipe organ looks much fuller. Like I said earlier, my zoas don't know what to do. Initially, most of my shrooms either closed up or moved as quickly as possible towards the shade. They seem to be getting adjusted.

 

Oh yeah, a bunch of my coraline bleached out, but it's coming back pretty quickly.

[jsmi2024]

Hey guys just wondering if you could give some pointers on the setup im planning. I saw a couple people ask but don't think i saw any definite responses to the questions. Ive got a 24g jbj that im getting ready to set back up when I get back from studying abroad. I'm defiantly gonna put in led lighting and at first thought i was thinking about keeping the stock pc's in and also adding in a 5.5"x8-9" ish heatsink w a mixture that i havn't really decided on of 18 of the same cree leds that you guys used. I'll probably end up putting some sps in eventually but not a problem putting mostly on top. Any suggestions would be great but just trying to get involved in this awesome topic. btw awsome tanks.

[evilc66]

Fit as much heatsink as you can into the hood. The NC24 hoods have a really large area under the splash guard, so use it to its fullest. the 5.5" wide heatsink will look tiny in there. 18 LEDs might do it, but more will be better. For a 24g tank, you should be thinking about adding 60 degree optics. As a result, you need to keep the spacing to 2"-2.5". This will help dictate the number of LEDs you will ultimately need. You can go with wider spacing front to back (like 3") than you can side to side.