My two refracs and a hydro read way diff.

[NanoReefNovice]

I have the same one as prop, got mine of ebay for $37 with shipping from hong kong. Compared to the LFSs top of the line refractometer it's dead on. may want to get one of these.

 

I do, its my cheapo one.

[Scott Riemer]

Trust your instruments? Really? Even when sign point to there being a problem with them? That's not smart.

 

Just b/c it is a cool pricier measuring tool does not mean you cant get skewed results.

Exactly.

[The Propagator]

I do, its my cheapo one.

 

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

I smell something funny here.

 

 

 

[NanoReefNovice]

Pics or it didn't happen.

I smell something funny here.

 

 

 

 

Trust issues? Im not arguing for the sake of arguing, im trying to talk out a rather complex issue.

 

 

This one is OK, but not great. It has a cheesy feel and I don't like how the slide flips forward from the front, they are much better when the slide flips forward from the rear. but accuracy is comparable to my high end one.

[The Propagator]

Yeah a little I guess.

 

Only because you said you had two completely different brix scale refractors in the beginning and then popped up with this one last post. Just seemed off. ( around here you get those all the time. People just peeing in the wind and changing up things to suite their story and all that. )

Just testing the waters no insults or harm meant

 

Err wait a minute.... you still don't have the same one

You have the same style but a brix scale......

[NanoReefNovice]

Yeah a little I guess.

 

Only because you said you had two completely different brix scale refractors in the beginning and then popped up with this one last post. Just seemed off. ( around here you get those all the time. People just peeing in the wind and changing up things to suite their story and all that. )

Just testing the waters no insults or harm meant

 

Err wait a minute.... you still don't have the same one

You have the same style but a brix scale......

 

True, i initially learned on Brix/Plato and i more comfortable w/ that unit of measure, i convert everything to SG for this forum b/c is seems to be the starndard here. Deff no harm or fowl, just wanted to let you know im not talking out of my ars. I do have two different brix refracs and the green one i showed earlier is my nicer one, just took image off google b/c for convenients.

[The Propagator]

Gotcha homey

[NanoReefNovice]

Good lookin

[The Propagator]

Word

[NanoReefNovice]

OK, i got my cal solution. Guess what! once calibrated in the right range (as w/ bootleg cal solution) it reads the same as the hydros. Not enough solution to float a hydro, but im damb sure its correct now. Conclusion, i set my salinity at 1.024 off my hydrometer which is way more accurate. Now i check my salinity off my refrac calibrated w/RO, which reads 1.018 for precision and ease... knowing for SURE my salinity if 1.024. Do you know what your salinity is?

[kgross]

If the refractometer is not designed for saltwater use, it will not be correct. The refractive index for a sugar solution is different than a mixed salt solution, which is different than a nacl solution.

 

The conversion chart from brix to SG, is not valid for the SG of saltwater, only of the solution it is designed to measure.

 

Now any device that measures SG will work correctly in any solution, but any other way of calculating the SG from another measurement can not be moved from one solute to another.

 

There was even a large article written a few years ago saying that most of our refracts will be .0015 low. Because they are designed for sodium chloride (table salt) water, not ocean salt water.

 

Read this.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

 

And pay attention to the part tittled

 

Refractive Index and Ion Imbalances in Seawater

 

Just a major change in mag will effect the accuracy of a refractometer, let alone using one designed to measure sugar levels.

 

Kim

 

 

That is basically the solution i made but w/ the actual salt i am using . Deff ignore feelings, but don't blindly trust your instruments.

 

You need to use table salt, not your salt mix.

 

The reason for this is that your salt mix might have more or less water in it than table salt so it could be off quite a bit.

 

Kim

[darkdrako]

If the refractometer is not designed for saltwater use, it will not be correct. The refractive index for a sugar solution is different than a mixed salt solution, which is different than a nacl solution.

 

The conversion chart from brix to SG, is not valid for the SG of saltwater, only of the solution it is designed to measure.

 

Kim

 

+1 I was about to write about the refractive index and had to answer a phone call. I homebrew at home and have similar equipment. Just some advice, if you do homebrew, do not use any of your equipment in your tank. Food grade cleaners do not remove everything, just what people cannot tolerate in their bodies.

 

The hydrometer you are using is already calibrated for sugar, to measure the specific gravity (or density of sugar) of the wort after it has cooled to about 60* F. The conversions for different temperatures takes into the changes in water volume at different temperatures.

 

From my understanding, measuring the salinity of your saltwater in ppt is supposed to be better because it will not change with temperature because it mearuses the weight of the salt compared to the weight of pure water. Specific gravity (density) measures volume which can change with temperature

[NanoReefNovice]

If the refractometer is not designed for saltwater use, it will not be correct. The refractive index for a sugar solution is different than a mixed salt solution, which is different than a nacl solution.

 

The conversion chart from brix to SG, is not valid for the SG of saltwater, only of the solution it is designed to measure.

 

Now any device that measures SG will work correctly in any solution, but any other way of calculating the SG from another measurement can not be moved from one solute to another.

 

There was even a large article written a few years ago saying that most of our refracts will be .0015 low. Because they are designed for sodium chloride (table salt) water, not ocean salt water.

 

Read this.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

 

And pay attention to the part tittled

 

Refractive Index and Ion Imbalances in Seawater

 

Just a major change in mag will effect the accuracy of a refractometer, let alone using one designed to measure sugar levels.

 

Kim

 

Awesome article! this is the discussion i was trying to get into. Not weather not to use cal solution.

 

Terminology i was missing "refractive index". I was trying to describe is as distortion that is not caused by the salt but by other elements.

 

 

You need to use table salt, not your salt mix.

 

The reason for this is that your salt mix might have more or less water in it than table salt so it could be off quite a bit.

 

Kim

 

I figured by using the solution (seawater) i was testing as a cal solution i would be able to match the refractive index of the seawater. I did multiple samples and checked with two professional quality hydrometers and temperature compensated. Now i know all things staying the same my refrac will read 1.018 as 1.024.

[NanoReefNovice]

Just some advice, if you do homebrew, do not use any of your equipment in your tank. Food grade cleaners do not remove everything, just what people cannot tolerate in their bodies

 

Huh? Food grade cleaners can kill everything in you tank, is that what you meant? There is nothing to my knowledge in beer that is going to kill you tank in small quantities. I use phosphoric acid and it kills everything, not just the stuff people cannot tolerate in their bodies, if a lil of that shiet got in any tank it would be GAME OVER. But i don't understand why anyone would sanitise a refrac, except by accient. Yea, but no sharing buckets .

 

The hydrometer you are using is already calibrated for sugar, to measure the specific gravity (or density of sugar) of the wort after it has cooled to about 60* F. The conversions for different temperatures takes into the changes in water volume at different temperatures.

 

 

From my understanding, measuring the salinity of your saltwater in ppt is supposed to be better because it will not change with temperature because it mearuses the weight of the salt compared to the weight of pure water. Specific gravity (density) measures volume which can change with temperature

 

I understand temp compensation, as i described earlier, but i have not measured the saltwater in ppt. I think it is a good idea

[darkdrako]

Huh? Food grade cleaners can kill everything in you tank, is that what you meant? There is nothing to my knowledge in beer that is going to kill you tank in small quantities. I use phosphoric acid and it kills everything, not just the stuff people cannot tolerate in their bodies, if a lil of that shiet got in any tank it would be GAME OVER. But i don't understand why anyone would sanitise a refrac, except by accient. Yea, but no sharing buckets .

 

 

 

I understand temp compensation, as i described earlier, but i have not measured the saltwater in ppt. I think it is a good idea

 

It was meant more for the hydrometer. Other than throwing away the bucket and hydrometer, there is no way of telling that all of the cleaning agent of your choice has been removed. Its just not worth the risk of your tank.

[Mr. Fosi]

Other than throwing away the bucket and hydrometer, there is no way of telling that all of the cleaning agent of your choice has been removed. Its just not worth the risk of your tank.

 

Sky is falling IMO.

 

I routinely wash various pieces of my aquarium equipment in soap, vinegar, bleach or any of several other household chemicals and I have yet to see deaths in my tank as a result of it. My SW storage bucket is included in that list; I wash it every time I empty it because of the interesting but unwanted bacterial film I get from using NSW.

[hcsceo]

Sky is falling IMO.

 

I routinely wash various pieces of my aquarium equipment in soap, vinegar, bleach or any of several other household chemicals and I have yet to see deaths in my tank as a result of it. My SW storage bucket is included in that list; I wash it every time I empty it because of the interesting but unwanted bacterial film I get from using NSW.

 

+1 I have to agree here. I normally brush off my eggcrates for my frag tank then throw them in the dishwasher a couple of times a year.

[darkdrako]

Nothing has to die for a chemical to be in your water. Trust me when I tell you, if you don't thoroughly, throroughly rince homebrew equipment after cleaning, you'll taste it in a few weeks!

[The Propagator]

Sky is falling IMO.

 

I routinely wash various pieces of my aquarium equipment in soap, vinegar, bleach or any of several other household chemicals and I have yet to see deaths in my tank as a result of it. My SW storage bucket is included in that list; I wash it every time I empty it because of the interesting but unwanted bacterial film I get from using NSW.

 

 

I feed my coral brine shrimp eggs right after I decap them in bleach. I soak them in a litte dechlor ( bou't 10 minutes ) and feed.

[Mr. Fosi]

Nothing has to die for a chemical to be in your water.

 

Even if I concede that point, presence doesn't indicate risk. Therefore your "too great a risk" comment is still alarmist. Plenty of people clean or soak their equipment in "chemicals" and then rinse them with no ill effects that can be directly attributed to "chemical" contamination.

[darkdrako]

With my inexperience in reef keeping, I can understand everyone's ideas. I just rather be safe than sorry (as a tangent its the same to me when people say don't dose what you don't test. I don't want to put into the tank something that I don't know about). I have more experience in homebrewing and what can happen within that field.

 

As far a presence doesn't indicate risk, it can go both ways. All I can say is that I personally don't know as far as reef keeping goes.

[SmittyCoco]

Sky is falling IMO.

 

My SW storage bucket is included in that list; I wash it every time I empty it because of the interesting but unwanted bacterial film I get from using NSW.

 

I too use nsw Mr. Fosi. I only slosh around ro water in my container every month or so just to rinse out. I don't put any chems in it though. Do you care to share your bucket cleaning technique?

 

I use this container.

 

[Mr. Fosi]

I use a standard 5g bucket w/sealing lid.

 

When empty, I put it in the bathtub and run a little water in along with a couple drops of Palmolive dish soap. I scrub the inside of the bucket with a small scrub brush and then give it a good rinse.

 

"Good" here means running some water in and sloshing it around three or four times to get all the obvious soap out, then putting a little more in and scrubbing without soap and rinsing a final time.

[NanoReefNovice]

It was meant more for the hydrometer. Other than throwing away the bucket and hydrometer, there is no way of telling that all of the cleaning agent of your choice has been removed. Its just not worth the risk of your tank.

 

why sterilize a hydro?

 

Nothing has to die for a chemical to be in your water. Trust me when I tell you, if you don't thoroughly, throroughly rince homebrew equipment after cleaning, you'll taste it in a few weeks!

 

Rinse after cleaning, of course, rise after sterilizing? NO! that is the last thing that should contact your equipment before the beer. So im wondering, what are you tasting after a few weeks?

[NanoReefNovice]

Even if I concede that point, presence doesn't indicate risk. Therefore your "too great a risk" comment is still alarmist. Plenty of people clean or soak their equipment in "chemicals" and then rinse them with no ill effects that can be directly attributed to "chemical" contamination.

 

Brewing sanitizers pose an extra risk, b/c of the their antimicrobial properties. I just image a few drops and all the biological filtration would be toast. But im just speculating, deff don't want to test that .