How Many People Here Support Purple Up?

[t4zalews]

Purple Up is not a good source of calcium. There are many other calcium supplements that are better. I have a full bottle of it still. If you stick with quality salt mix and keep up with water changes, you shouldnt have to supplement with any type of calcium. I never dose calcium in my 65

[Izzue]

^^^ YOur joking right???

 

I have a Korallin CA reactor running wide open...

 

Use to dose Bulk Solution 2 part 150 mls a day.

 

ALL depends on your bioload...

 

Reactor can only maintain PH at 7.8 at full throttle in my 75 gal.

 

Purple up just adds CA in larger particles to promote it to stick directly

to your LR to enhance Coraline algae...

 

Just an example of Bioload...and I use tropic marine pro salt mix...20% change

every 2 weeks.

http://www.msreefclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=80

 

Izzue

[disaster999]

i keep my calc and alk up by dosing 2 part and having great success with coralline growing all over my rocks, not so much on my walls...but i dont want it on my walls anyways.

 

they are growing so well they are plating. ill snap a few pictures tonight.

 

 

 

they will come off if you scrap/soak in vinegar

 

tried to snap a picture of the bigger patch of coralline algae plating, but due to difficult angles, i wasnt able to, i only managed to take a picture of a smaller one

[The Propagator]

Purple u pis crap IMHO. Its nothing but aragonite and some other crap.

Its fine for coraline alage because that's the only thing that can utilize it but I wouldt rely on it for calcium buffer in any way shape or form nor would I expect it to help my coral in any fashion significantly.

[lakshwadeep]

Purple up just adds CA in larger particles to promote it to stick directly

to your LR to enhance Coraline algae...

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? Calcium, when in an aqueous solution (which it is as the calcium chloride in purpleup), is not going to have large "particles", and calcium isn't something that magically sits on the rocks for the coralline to touch it. The algae must take in the calcium and carbonate ions to form its structure.

[The Propagator]

"Form" and "bioavailable" are the key words here. Coraline algae can benefit from the "form" of calcium offered via purple up but corals in general wont. Because it is ( or used to be anyway unless something has changed ) aragonite based. Because it is an aragonite based product it can not offer the same form of bio available calcium that coral in general need to grow. If it had been pre dissolved into another form via low PH environment then yes but as a straight fine aragonite powder saturated in iodine, RO water and what ever else they put in it it will not.

 

To that effect Izzue knows exactly what he is talking about on this. Just because we can not distinguish with our naked eye particle sizes of the calcium offered by purple up does not mean they are the same as reef grade liquid calcium that is bioavailable for coral consumption. Calcium in general does not have to be in a very bioavailable form for coraline algae to utilize it but it does for coral in general. Aqueos solution reffers to something saturated in liquid. Period. That does not mean it changes the composition of something. It merely means it has either been diluted or "saturated" in said aqueos solution. Now for said aqueos calcium solution to do any good for coral we need said CA aqueos solution to have under gone a further break down in a very low PH environment which breaks it down even further to a more bioavailable form that our coral can utilize.

 

 

( Did that just come out of me ? )

[BKtomodachi]

Calcium in general does not have to be in a very bioavailable form for coraline algae to utilize it but it does for coral in general.

Really? I don't buy it.

[The Propagator]

Neither do I.

 

 

 

 

Purple up that is.

 

*Troll deflected*

 

Coraline algae is not as complex a creature as say an LPS or an SPS for one.

[lakshwadeep]

Really? I don't buy it.

 

Yeah, I don't understand the biochemistry of "bioavailable" calcium. Besides, coralline algae from calcite "skeletons", instead of aragonite, but that distinction is really not useful since they are just different types of calcium carbonate.

[The Propagator]

OLAY !

[Izzue]

Do you even know what you're talking about?

 

NO!!!!! But I did Stay IN a Holiday Inn last night... LOL

 

 

I dont usally take the time to pour out all the details...just laymens terms.

PU is no miracle or must by any means...but it does have a use...My shrimp

told me he loved iodine bath it provides to his exoskeleton...

 

btw...Lakshwadeep GFY !

 

Carefuls ####### off Senior citizens...I may pull out my Frag kit and tool you!

 

Izzue

[qball]

I feel that no two tanks are alike, so without proper testing/experimentation you can't determine what the actual result of this or any product would be.

 

My 2c - don't dose anything that you don't test for...

[BKtomodachi]

god this thread went downhill.

 

I feel that no two tanks are alike, so without proper testing/experimentation you can't determine what the actual result of this or any product would be.

nope. you absolutely can.

[lakshwadeep]

I dont usally take the time to pour out all the details...just laymens terms.

PU is no miracle or must by any means...but it does have a use...

 

Care to give them in (bio)chemical terms?

 

My shrimp

told me he loved iodine bath it provides to his exoskeleton...

 

Is this another one of your "laymen's terms" that is completely wrong? Crustaceans don't get iodine from the surrounding water like some type of sponge; they get it from the food they eat.

[iFISTmoose]

it messed up my calcium to about 600

[Izzue]

Is this another one of your "laymen's terms" that is completely wrong? Crustaceans don't get iodine from the surrounding water like some type of sponge; they get it from the food they eat.

 

Dang...Maybe you where at the same Holiday Inn Express!!!

 

I was wondering if you would mouth off about that statement also

 

Im done with your azzz...your way out of my league.

 

but just for the hell of it...Yes I was 1st talking about the aqueous properties with

the key word Ionized...so now read up on how ionized particles have the affinity to

bind a molecule they need to neutralize the mix (laymens term )

 

Second if you think inverts only get Iodine from eating...you might want to take a course

in shrimp language...amazing the info those little buggers will spill.

 

Izzue

[The Propagator]

Yeah, crustaceans only getting iodine from ingested substance is pretty naive.

If that were true then the same would be true for all elements and the water would just keep them wet.

[StevieT]

Placebo

[tinctorus]

Yeah, crustaceans only getting iodine from ingested substance is pretty naive.

If that were true then the same would be true for all elements and the water would just keep them wet.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing

if that were true we would have to spot feed every coral buy soaking there food in calcium,iodine,strontium etc etc...

[BKtomodachi]

Im done with your azzz...your way out of my league.

 

but just for the hell of it...Yes I was 1st talking about the aqueous properties with

the key word Ionized...so now read up on how ionized particles have the affinity to

bind a molecule they need to neutralize the mix (laymens term )

 

That makes no sense. Sorry, but you can't just "call someone out" with random vague chemistry terms, lol.

 

As for the shrimp debacle: there really isn't a peer reviewed catalog of research in this hobby. I was unable to find much information about specifically how marine crustaceans utilize Iodide. So I can't come down on either side there. But I do know that there are many species of crustaceans that live in very Ion-poor freshwater environments.

I also know that many species of algae are a critical element in a marine food chain- and they are known for having high concentrations of iodide.

[Izzue]

That makes no sense. Sorry, but you can't just "call someone out" with random vague chemistry terms, lol.

 

GFY

 

Hey this is the internet and I can say and do anything I like (until Im banned of course )

Not to mention above poster has already called me out...

 

If you would take the time to read my post.... this thread is about Purple Up (not dope btw)

Look I post stuff when I m at work...LOL...like right now...and I dont always include every little thing

but the above poster is basically doing what you now have to decided to do also and test my knowledge

Im assuming...

Im an stupid idiot that likes to keep gold fish in a reef tank...so enough.

 

But BK and lak...do either of you have a bottle of PU or ever used it or do you just know

how to use the Internet.

 

Im no genious but I did read the instructions on the bottle...Its bascially a Liguid concentrated

with the ingredients then ionized.

Enough for now...Ive got a Doctor staring at me

 

Izzue

[lakshwadeep]

but just for the hell of it...Yes I was 1st talking about the aqueous properties with

the key word Ionized...so now read up on how ionized particles have the affinity to

bind a molecule they need to neutralize the mix (laymens term )

 

I can't respond to your rambling explanation because you're trying to give an overgeneralized explanation while not saying where or what is happening. There is no such thing as "aqueous properties"; "aqueous solution" simply means something using water as a solvent. By "ionized particle", I think you mean a Ca2+ ion, which is still an atom, not a particle. If anything, you seem to be repeating only the terms I used and changing them to sound more scientific. If you would like some info on the process of calcification, read here (sorry, it is mainly about corals but "calcifying algae are similar in many respects.1":

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm

 

Second if you think inverts only get Iodine from eating...you might want to take a course

in shrimp language...amazing the info those little buggers will spill.

 

Well, it looks like Dr. Holmes-Farley found some info without resorting to being a shrimp whisperer in the quote below. The examples given show that shrimp generally don't even need a lot of iodine for proper growth.

 

Who uses iodine: Shrimp

 

As one moves up the food chain to more sophisticated organisms, data on their ability to take up iodine from the water column becomes very sparse. Shrimp are known to have a need for iodine to grow, but that is only known in terms of a dietary requirement. The shrimp, Penaeus chinensis O'sbeck, for example, grows optimally when the diet contains 0.003% iodine.56

 

Shrimp apparently incorporate substantial amounts of iodoorganics into their bodies. The shrimp Pandalus borealis, for example, incorporates between 0.04 and 2 ppm iodine as iodoorganic compounds depending on the particular body tissues examined. Their roe were somewhat higher, up to 4 ppm iodine as iodoorganic compounds.57 Shrimp shells and other parts can contain up to 17 ppm by dry weight iodine, the majority of which is iodoorganic compounds58, but the values are still far lower than for other inverts like macroalgae, sponges, or gorgonia.

 

Still, the amount contained says nothing about whether iodine is an important requirement. I could find no scientific studies that showed that shrimp need iodine from the water column, but neither could I find any that demonstrates that they do not.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

[lakshwadeep]

No, I do not have it, but I can read the label too: Powdered Aragonite Calcium Chloride Iodine. Whatever happened to "don't dose what your not testing"?

 

Sorry if you're getting upset, but I'm a biochemistry sophomore, and so I have a lot of interest in understanding why or why not to use Purple Up.

[Izzue]

No way...Im not mad.

 

Sorry that my laymens terms and vague explanations are not good enough

for you...Not to mention half the articles you managed to internet...dont say a whole

lot either.

Ive used 2 bottles of PU in the last 4 years...so I base some info on useage of the product.

One thing I have noticed...my shrimp tend to molt after a good dose of PU.

 

Good luck with the Chemistry...not my favorite but I get by. Im a Senoir Med Tech

at a University Hospital...I dont have a lot of hands on work anymore I just mainly work

with very very smart Doctors. Most with no People Skills.

Learn well Young one...but keep others in mind...we all think different AND keep

your ppl skills...No matter how much you learn or know...dont be a smart azzz about it

In the working world thats not tolerated to well

 

Izzue

[mim37204]

chemistry really isn't my thing, so i'm going off quick refrence and memories from chem 2 semesters ago... but here goes.

 

calcium chloride is a salt. when you mix a salt in water it'll ionize. those ions are then free to bind to whatever they'd like around them. the chlorine will gas off and the calcium will likely bind to some other substance in the tank to form a stable calcium compound(likely NaOH from the saltwater, where it precipitates calcium hydroxide). seeing as most calcium compounds are insoluble in water without some acidity problem(and assuming your alk and pH are where they should be you should already have a tank 8.0 or better, and with a calcium abundance), the bound ions will precipitate out of the water forming resting particles of calcium compounds on whatever is underneath them. this layer will be thin, seeing as you aren't overdoing it and as your current should have most of it in a colloidal solution in your tank, where it'll remain untill it's buffer-ability is broken and it returns to free(or salt) calcium(in the form of Ca2+). if i remember right this is how using salt in a water softener works, but usually the bound ionic compunds are flushed away

 

i'm not a biology major so i'm running off of what i can remember from high school, not a corals expert, but i'd imagine that Ca2+ is bio-active.

 

 

so yeah, basically it's just calcium that forms particles that precipitate on the rocks.