Step by step LED light help

[evilc66]

Sadly there is going to be no common light setup for sps and macro at the same time. The system would have to be seperated to light the required areas. For the sps side, you could do 2 cool whites, and 2 royal blues. For the macro side, 3 reds and 1 blue.

[SnakPak]

Evil,

 

Can't wait to read your write-up. I'm just starting into this hobby and have been racking my head over which lighting set-up I'd like to do. Just as soon as I settle on something, I get pulled back by the LED gods. I'm planning a 20 g long, with 6" of space dedicated to the fuge/filtration area. So that leaves me with 24" of space to light up.

 

If I can do a LED set-up for mid $200 - $300, I'll jump right on it. The savings alone after the first year of not having to replace bulbs would more then make up for it.

 

If I do venture down this road, would you be willing to meet up and show me some pointers? I'm in Rochester Hills.

[evilc66]

Wow, you're right around the corner!

 

Doing an array for that size tank seems feasable for the price range you are looking at.

[marinekeeper]

I am ready for the manual too!

[flipit13]

hi evilc66

i am also from manhattan reefs i stumbled across your topic on leds. and have a few questions

attached is a link to leds i use all the time for channel letter signs and was wondering if they would work i have maybe 30 sets of them laying around the shop. http://www.sloanled.com/ChanneLED4.html

 

i am in the middle of getting a 40 breeder and want to use leds but think it is a little crazy to spend almost 1000 on a light. i am building my own canopy and stand and figured why not a led fixture.

i have also made lighting for the radio controll hobby using lumex leds. have you ever seen any of there leds work for aquarium lighting www.lumex.com ?

 

i will be hosing in the 40 breeder lps and sps i know that helps with what lighting is recommended

 

thanks

rick

[evilc66]

hi evilc66

i am also from manhattan reefs i stumbled across your topic on leds. and have a few questions

attached is a link to leds i use all the time for channel letter signs and was wondering if they would work i have maybe 30 sets of them laying around the shop. http://www.sloanled.com/ChanneLED4.html

 

Not enough power for a 40B. If the tank was shallow, it would be a reasonable setup, but at 16" the amount of light that would hit the bottom would be pretty low. This is also providing that the superflux LEDs used in that application are the 1/2W high output versions. If they are the 1/4W versions, they won't be good for much.

 

i am in the middle of getting a 40 breeder and want to use leds but think it is a little crazy to spend almost 1000 on a light. i am building my own canopy and stand and figured why not a led fixture.

i have also made lighting for the radio controll hobby using lumex leds. have you ever seen any of there leds work for aquarium lighting www.lumex.com ?

 

i will be hosing in the 40 breeder lps and sps i know that helps with what lighting is recommended

 

thanks

rick

 

Most of their lineup isn't powerful enough. The TitanBrite has a possibility for being useful, but the high forward voltage limits how many can be used on a single driver. Most Cree and Luxeon LEDs can output the same if not more at half the forward voltage.

[flipit13]

ok thank you for the quick responce evilc66

 

what would your recomendations be for a 40 breeder?

 

thanks

rick

[ajmckay]

I'm going to guess that evil will say use 40 degree optics with 2" spacing.... So that would be 8 rows of 16 LEDs (if you start the array 2" inside the glass on all 4 sides), which is just about 128 LEDs... Using 1/2 cool white and 1/2 royal blue with possibly some addition of UV LED's (w/o optics)... To power it you could use like 20 "buck pucks" running the whites at 1000ma and the royal blues at 700ma (or is it the other way around?). You could also check out the meanwell LED power supply thread and get like 5 of those to drive all your LED's at 700ma but not have an easily dimmable system.

 

*disclaimer: don't do what I just said in this reply (unless it gets confirmed by a more authoritative source)... I just posted this because at some point I have to begin quizzing myself on the knowledge I've gained and "test" my theories in this relatively safe environment where someone can still correct me.

 

Hey PakRX8, where in Rochester Hills do you live? I live there for almost 8 years, now I'm in Auburn Hills by the Palace. If you ever need anything just PM me... I set my 29 gallon up last September.

[flipit13]

thank you ajmckay

 

i am not jumping right into it at the moment lol. but thanks for the honesty. i have about 2 months till i start the upgrade and instead of spending on a double 150 mh. i figured i really want to look into the leds. what i spend now i save in electric bill, bulbs, and a chiller. that alone would be quite a hefty bill

 

thanks

rick

[flipit13]

hi evilc66

http://www.sloanled.com/GreatWhite3.html

here is another from sloan i can get and these seem to be better than the last ones i posted. i am working on the config and supplies needed and costs now.

 

i am doing a mock up in illustrator now and will post to see if this config works from what i hve been reading.

 

thanks

rick

[ajmckay]

what i spend now i save in electric bill, bulbs, and a chiller. that alone would be quite a hefty bill

 

Rick, that is true... Online you should be able to find some energy calculators (search "aquarium energy calculator" or something similar). I think that either way you're going to be spending a ton on electricity (probably 200w in circulation alone!)... So you might want to run the numbers for both scenarios anyways.

Run the numbers and calculate your break even point where your energy savings with LED's vs. halide would justify the initial LED expense. (ex: you spend $2000 on the LED setup vs. $800 on a MH setup, take the difference in electricity costs (you still pay for 300W of LED's) and add in the cost of bulb replacement and see how long you can run the MH setup until you spend the extra $1,200.

 

Okay, so now I'm going to do the calculation... This is mostly for me, I will probably be in your situation someday!

 

Say 900 watts for MH and 350 watts for LEDs (just a guesstimate). The difference is 550 watts. Using 10 cents/Kwh I found it would cost an additional $18 to power the MH per month.

So 18x12=216 per year plus $150 in bulbs gives you about $360/year over the cost of the LED's to power. That means it would take about 3.3 years to break even on the initial cost of the LEDs (assuming you spend $2000/$800, the wattage difference, 12 hour photo period, and other things, though I don't think it can be too far off...).

 

Plus what if energy prices go up again sometime? From what I understand the lifespan of LED's for aquarium lighting is about 8-10 years, is that correct? If it is, you could save considerably on an LED setup if you can front the initial cost!

[flipit13]

ajmckay that is what i was getting at.... i know in new york we are about to get hit with another electric increase i think 14% . in this day and age of the economy which wont get better anytime soon, that is why i am looking at the led world..... i only run a jbj now and raised my bill by 40 dollars a month in the winter and an additional almost 80 - 90 in the summer taking away from corals i could buy lol.... plus with that takin into consideration i can make a sleek low-profile canopy hense not worring about the heat issue. and also not having to have the ac on 65 cause i hate hanging meat in the house lol

 

thanks

rick

[evilc66]

I think AJ was on the right track with the estimate, but I think eight rows might be a bit excessive. You can knock that down to 4 rows pretty easily. I have found that if you stager the rows, the spacing from to back isn't as critical as side to side for appearance purposes. It blends a lot better. I'd still keep the spacing front to back at no more than 3". Keep in mind that 40 degree optics will get you performance similar to a 250W MH setup.

 

The other strip light you linked to probably won't be adequate for primary lighting. Unless it's using 3W LEDs, it's just not powerful enough. You lose a ton of performance the deeper you go. The higher the power of the LED, the better the drop-off curve will be.

[flipit13]

hi evilc66

 

ok i basically took sloan out of the picture i looked further into it and its to low thank you..

 

ok attached is a drawing i just did and now if i can drop it into 4 rows now we are talking about something here....

 

ok so i thought about stagering it but didnt do it obviously lol.....

but should i do white than blue or as i have in the pic/diagram?

 

what would you recommend?

how many buckpucks and what type of transformer?

 

hate asking all the questions i feel like a nusance.

[flipit13]

ok so here is a list of thing i have to order right?

 

32-white-cree xr-e q5

32-blue cree

64- 40 degree lenses http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut691 ?

 

how many buckpacks?

how many UV leds?

and i would need 2 power supplies i would guess since i would like to use the blue for sunset and sunrise

 

sofar from what i see the cost is alot less than the estimated cost of other led light fixtures for that size tank. i nearly fell over 1200 - 1800 for a light fixture for a 40 breeder in led...

 

sofar but not a hundred percent sure looks like i can be into it for about 700 than my time soldering which i dont mind.

[BlueAbyss]

Remember that the Solaris units are meant to replace MH lights, and have a fancy controller and stuff built in. You're paying to have someone put it all together for you and program a fancy controller, if you were to buy a Solaris. Now would actually be a bad time to buy one though.

 

Just a note flip, make sure you stagger your LEDs 1-white,1-blue,1white,etc... in your drawing above it looks like you have them set up into rows. You also need heatsinks and fans for the LEDs or you will burn them out. Most people use 3 UV LEDs across the tank without optics. The number of Buckpucks used will depend on the configuration you have chosen yourself. You'll likely need more than 2 power supplies also.

[evilc66]

Yup. Alternating the LEDs will provide a much more even color. It gets even better once you stagger them. IMO, there isn't any reason to stick with 8 rows of LEDs. 4 will get the job done easily. If you go this path, you will need 7 Buckpucks. 3 for white (1000mA), 3 for royal blue (1000mA), and 1 for UV (700mA). I would go with 4 UV LEDs on a setup this size. Have them set up so they are in the middle of each quarter of the tank (give or take).

 

You will probably need two 24v power supplies for this like BlueAbyss mentioned. This will get you two things; lower cost than a single higher power unit, and you will be able to simulate dawn/dusk at a very basic level.

[flipit13]

32-white-cree xr-e q5

32-blue cree

64- 40 degree lenses

4-uv leds

7 buckpucks-6,1000 & 1 700

2 -24v power supplies where do you reccomend ?

also what size heat sinks would i need ?

i went on to heatsinks usa. i would have to run it across each bar behind every led right?

 

thank you all with this project

 

rick

[evilc66]

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16854+PS

 

Not pretty, but cheap, stable and gets the job done.

 

For a heatsink, get the 8.5" wide unit from HeatsinkUSA. Get it about 34-36".

[flipit13]

here is a recent mockup of the light with the info i have recieved from the led gods.

 

if i am wrong let me know.

so with all the equipment needed the total is around $860 and change and a couple of hours soldering each night.

alot better than $2200

[ajmckay]

Hey flipit your schematic looks pretty good but you might want to stagger the rows even more... Evil mentioned that the spacing front to back should still stay at 3" or less... so if we take the 18" width and take out 3 on each side we get 12" and so 4 rows would work, but (correct me if I'm wrong) we might need more staggering of the LEDs beyond just alternating the sequence.

 

Would this schematic work better than the straight rows? (I know it's crappy and yellow = white).

 

My other thought is with regards to the heatsink... To make the design more adjustable does anyone think that using 2 rows of the smaller heatsinks (which are 5.375" wide) and positioning them with a space in the middle to get a little better distribution? The 8.5" wide heatsink falls short of the 12" needed for even distribution across the width of the tank... You might also be able to combine a 32" length of both sizes to acheive a 13.8" width and distribute your LEDs better. Of course that would be even more expensive and weight even more... So that's something to consider I suppose. You could always mount the LED's using screws and if the distribution on the larger heatsink isn't good, you could add on another heatsink later.

[edeymike]

great info in this thread, thanks to everyone who is helping out. I am looking to grow some frags in my 5 gal fuge. Will 2 q5 and 2 royal blues be enough if i place the light over the half of the tank the frags will be in? i am hoping it will be bright enough to also grow my macro on the other side, with spillover light. Also will these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3256 or these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4735 work for them? and i have a 12v computer power supply will that do?

 

thanks a lot

[evilc66]

Neither driver will really be suited for this application. They are really designed for battery operation. A 12v power supply will also not be able to run 4 LEDs on a single driver.

 

4 LEDs will work, but won't give the best coverage. For good light, you would need about double what you are planning.

[edeymike]

the only reason i say four is a cost issue. i was also thinking of 5 a square with one in the middle. the tank is only 8 inches deep by 16 long. its going to be a real small operation, just so i can bring a little something to the reef meetings. the buckpucks seem like the best option, i think i will wait untill I get a bit more cash and get them. will i need two 1000ma if i go with 2 whites and 3 blues? what are the calculations for figuring out how much power will be needed?

 

thanks alot evil. you sure do know your stuff!

 

oh, and i was planning on mounting a few old PC heatsinks to a 1/2" thick by maybe 6" wide and however long, sheet of aluminum then tapping the sheet and mounting the stars with bolts. seem like a good idea?

[evilc66]

You can run a maximum of 6 LEDs on a Buckpuck. As long as you stick to that you will be ok.

 

Your heatsink idea will work fine. With such a relatively low load, it should handle the heat just fine. Bolting the stars down is highly recommended, but make sure you use thermal compound with it.