Mandarin Dragonet

[Brian Crook]

Yeah I will be trying to get him on frozen food. I don't know about my population of copepods though, it's definitely not nearly as populated as it once was when I started the tank. Late at night with a flashlight, I basically don't see any copepods any more, just the occasional larger fast-moving pods (don't know all the names). And my refugium has lot's of tiny serpent starfish in it as well as the larger pods.

 

Anyways, first thing first. I have to remove my giant serpent.

 

Thanks for the tips.

[Brian Crook]

I have successfully removed the serpent and have purchased another Mandarin. This time the one that I purchased has a LOT of orange on it, and I believe it may be a male too because of the larger fins (though I'm not sure). I'll try and get a picture tomorrow when the metal halide is on.

 

I also purchased some Mysis shrimp and some live phytoplankton to feed the copepods.

[TimothyUhl]

So howse it goin?

[eyou]

i agree with SDT. it's really easy to condition fish, dont underestimate htem. i had my mandarin trained on frozen mysis, but still it wasnt getting proper nutrition, it probably wasted away after maybe a year. i think it would be best to feed at least twice a day if you do not have many pods. i think you guys should check out melevsreef.com too. if you can get them on frozen, you can probably get them on pellets and he has this "fish buffet jar" that he puts in his tank that allows his mandarin to eat whenver it wants throughout the whole day.

[CheeseHead]

i agree with SDT. it's really easy to condition fish, dont underestimate htem. i had my mandarin trained on frozen mysis, but still it wasnt getting proper nutrition, it probably wasted away after maybe a year. i think it would be best to feed at least twice a day if you do not have many pods. i think you guys should check out melevsreef.com too. if you can get them on frozen, you can probably get them on pellets and he has this "fish buffet jar" that he puts in his tank that allows his mandarin to eat whenver it wants throughout the whole day.

I also agree with SDT, it was extremely easy to get my mandarin to start eating live brine shrimp by associating feeding time with the clear air line tubing/syringe I use. I have had a lot of trouble though getting my mandarin to eat mysis shrimp, he just doesn't seem to be interested AT ALL in the mysis, but he mowes down any/all brine that shoot out of the tubing.

[silverdust]

Cheesehead, my mandarin is definitely more interested in the brine as well. Two things that I'm going to try...first, I noticed he's more likely to eat mysis chunks instead of a whole shrimp - I'm going to start chopping them a bit. Secondly, the movement of the brine usually lures my fish away from the mysis, so I'm going to start chilling them in the fridge for 10-15 minutes so they'll be slower moving. Lastly, it might make sense to feed frozen brine with the live, then move over to mysis - so he's not necessarily watching for movement. This is my game-plan, hope it helps you in some way. Good luck to you.

[SeeDemTails]

If your mandarin doesnt like mysis, some really dont, use spirulina brine instead. It actually has more protein than mysis.

 

I have started to vary between the two every other time I feed.

 

BTW shouldnt be more than a week before I bring home my female spotted!

[johnmaloney]

try blood worms too, mine love them

[FishFreak77]

I used a little plastic syringe to feed my mandarin frozen brine. Soon he came to associate the syringe with food and would come over whenecer I put it into the water. It really is not that hard to get dragonets on frozen foods.

[Karimi]

I think I'd like to try this. I've got a 5 gallon, think a mandarin and some frozen brine would be a recipe for disaster ? I really don't want to be another killer. Also, how sustainable is this in the long term, I've heard its not the best idea for long-term health ?

[johnmaloney]

I got a pair of spotted mandarins from saltwatertropicals.com, (ok I actually picked it up from there store and then learned about the site), and was very pleased. All of their mandarins are eating live blood worms, and the male I got tried out some flake the first day. (The flake was for the damsels), the female stayed with the blood worms, but will eat frozen now instead of only live. These people really know how to take care of a fish. Without exception, I have never seen happier, healthier fish.

[Alcapown]

Its not hard you were just doing it wrong.....You have to feed them. Unless you were catching those pods on by one and feeding them to the fish, you were wasting your time. You have to FEED the fish.

 

I wish I could punch the person in the face who started the "all you need is a fuge and pods" myth. Feed it if you ever want to be successful with them.

Hey, ive seen a few of your posts about the forums, the ones that catch my are about mandarins, because I have been studying, and researching the hobby for quite some time, and Im almost to the point of getting started, Im thinking 14g biocube, and I think the mandarin are an absolutely beautiful fish, and very intelligent, and i would LOVE to be able to house one happily in that particular aquarium. I see that most are highly against that, but you do think they would ive in a 14g biocube happily? and healthy if I am willing to put the time, effort, and dedication in for the little guy? Thank you very much for your help! And yes, id use your feeding methods, cant argue with the results you have gotten.

[CSoli921]

Yes, and what do you do when the mandarin doesn't even eat live brine?

[micstarz]

Congratulations. A word of caution:

Even if your fish will accept such foods, you probably still want to supplement because bloodworms and flakes most likely don't contain all the nutrients your fish need. If what you are feeding lack something that they would get from their natural diet, they will slowly waste away...

[Thunil]

Just thought that I would tell you all my story (even if it is a bit of a dampener)

 

I have a 55g display and a 20g sump/fuge both with quite a large amount of LR (more than you could possibly fit into most nanos) I bought a female spotted mandarin form my LFS. The tank had been set up for three years when I got her.She was fat and healthy and she was eating frozen enriched brine and frozen mysis within a week and pellet within a month, I'd hand feed her using a pippette atleast once a day. Even with this size tank, amount of rock and regular feedings she started to lose weight at the 6-8 month mark. She became skinnier and skinnier untill one morning i couldnt see her. I never found the body.

 

Here's a couple of pics of her in her prime:

 

I dont want to see a multitude of nano-reef keepers to go out and buy Mandarin Dragonets (with the best of intentions) only to have them starve and die in their tanks. I know that a few people have recently had success with them in their tanks but in reality, they haven't had them for a long period of time. After keeping one in my tank I really believe that these fish belong in nothing smaller than a 75 gallon tank, or a 55g with a larger sump than mine.

 

Sorry if I upset anybody,

Daniel

[clownfish617]

Just thought that I would tell you all my story (even if it is a bit of a dampener)

 

I have a 55g display and a 20g sump/fuge both with quite a large amount of LR (more than you could possibly fit into most nanos) I bought a female spotted mandarin form my LFS. The tank had been set up for three years when I got her.She was fat and healthy and she was eating frozen enriched brine and frozen mysis within a week and pellet within a month, I'd hand feed her using a pippette atleast once a day. Even with this size tank, amount of rock and regular feedings she started to lose weight at the 6-8 month mark. She became skinnier and skinnier untill one morning i couldnt see her. I never found the body.

 

Here's a couple of pics of her in her prime:

 

I dont want to see a multitude of nano-reef keepers to go out and buy Mandarin Dragonets (with the best of intentions) only to have them starve and die in their tanks. I know that a few people have recently had success with them in their tanks but in reality, they haven't had them for a long period of time. After keeping one in my tank I really believe that these fish belong in nothing smaller than a 75 gallon tank, or a 55g with a larger sump than mine.

 

Sorry if I upset anybody,

Daniel

wow beautiful fish!

sorry for your lose though

i agree, i say if your going to buy one, try to either have it already expect frozen, or try your best make it accept frozen.

 

i want one now!

[Clownshoes]

Yu are of course free to disagree. Though I seriously question whether or not it is "intelligence" that allows them to recognize you. They're likely not recognizing you as some great caregive rbut rather you have become associated with food. Most animals are capable of this. It's a simple form of conditioning.

 

As for your point about "enjoying" human interaction. Right there you are anthropomorizing. You're placing human trait (the ability to enjoy) on an animal. What's more likely is that the fish accosiates you with food and displays behavior which you have called "enjoyment" or "excitement" becuase it makes the entire experience rewarding for you. We do this to all our pets, and even non pets at the zoo. "Oh look, that animal is laughing/smiling/frowning, etc. If we look at what they are REALLY doing, it turns our 9 times out of 10, they're not lauging, smiling, or frowning, but rather performing a completely unrelated behavior.

 

It is my opinion, and you're free to disagree, that we need to avoid anthropomorphizing. If we want to keep these animal and really learn from them and about them, then we need to stop thinking of them as little humans in a tank. They're not.

 

I often hear the argument. "How would you like to be confimed to one little room your whole life?". Ha, I'd hate it. But that's becuase I have the capacity for complex emotion, introspection, reasoning, rational conscious thought. A fish can't think about "oh ###### I'm stuck in a box". It can't sit there and forumulate a plan to escape, or feel sorry for itself.

 

We love to use emotion words like "feel" and "think" etc. when talking about our fish. The problem is these words carry with them connotations about HUMAN emotions and thought. While fish are certainly capable of some "moods" by all accounts they do not experience human emotion as we do. This is likely becuase they don't have the ability of self awareness, or introspection.

 

Fish are more intelligent then many people give them credit for. I agree with you. They have been shown recently to have very good memories and are quick "learners" when it comes to conditioning behavior. However ffor me the determing factor is introspection, human emotion, and self awareness. Fish simply do not have these mental abilities from what we can tell. And as such do not experience the world as we do. Thus they can't get upset and pout becuase you fed them mysis instead of Brine, or get their panties in a bunch becuase they really would has prefered a 20 over a 10.

 

You may respond with, "well if conditions are poor the fish will get stressed." Right you are. However let's look at what we're calling "stress". Again this isn't like human stress where we experience angst, or remorse, etc. The ability for humans and likely other higher primates to have this true "stress" is the ability of introspection. The ability to think about something that isn't concrete. To review something in your mind, replay it, discect it, analyze it, and have an emotional response to it. In the fish world "stress" is simply an outside factor that negatively impacts a fish physically. As a response we get the coloration changes, or behavior swings we call "stress" in a fish. This is the main difference. Fish only display this "stress" due to outside factors. Poor water quality, a bully fish attacking them, lack of defined territoty, etc. They don't get stressed becuase they had a bad day and broke up with their girlfriend fish and are dwelling on it. They aren't capable of recalling a past event and having a new emotional reaction to it. I can't be "stressed" due to an internal factor.

 

For example. If I'm placed in a relaively small room my whole life, I will be greatly stressed. Why? Not becuase of the room itself. There is nothing inherently stressful about a room (unless I'm claustrophobic, but that's another story). The stress comes from my ability to think an analyze the situation. I sit and think...Ok I'm in the small room, stuck here. Then doubt rolls in, and questions about the future etc. THAT is the stressful part of being stuck in a room forever. Fish can't do that. They can't say, "oh ####, I'm stuck in this room, I'm never going to get out", and then dwell on it and get stressed. They get stressed from external factors, not internal ones, becuase they don't have the mental capacity to dwell on something and have complex emotions from these internal "thoughts".

 

 

+10000000

 

Awesome.

[Withers]

I dont want to see a multitude of nano-reef keepers to go out and buy Mandarin Dragonets (with the best of intentions) only to have them starve and die in their tanks. I know that a few people have recently had success with them in their tanks but in reality, they haven't had them for a long period of time. After keeping one in my tank I really believe that these fish belong in nothing smaller than a 75 gallon tank, or a 55g with a larger sump than mine.

 

Sorry if I upset anybody,

Daniel

 

Quoted for emphasis.

[OkcKoolaid]

sorry to pop out of no where, but how does having a sump help with a mandarin, because i mean common you really think copepods will travel through the return pump without getting diced into a billion pieces i mean have you ever seen copepods flying out of your return nozzle into your tank? just curious

[javisaman]

I have. You can't test your return with live brine shrimp. Nothing gets "chopped up", at least in my system it doesn't.

[arash53]

Yesterday I bought a Dragonet, the guy in LFS told me she is eating frozen food , last night I tried to feed her

mysis and she did not eat I guess because she is new in my tank an so busy to catch the pods. I have na NANO-CUBE 12DX and she is the only fish in my tank. I wonder what time is the best to feed her.

[johnnymu]

Not saying your lfs is lying but you can ask your lfs to feed frozen on the spot to prove it's eating. Lfs are known to get you to buy anything with no warranties.

[arash53]

I told him he put some frozen food in tank but Foxface fishes eat them right away. I bought this fish because I read this topic not because he told me, I hope I can train her to eat frozen foods. looks like many people had success ! I realy like this fish

[Phyto4life]

Yesterday I bought a Dragonet, the guy in LFS told me she is eating frozen food , last night I tried to feed her

mysis and she did not eat I guess because she is new in my tank an so busy to catch the pods. I have na NANO-CUBE 12DX and she is the only fish in my tank. I wonder what time is the best to feed her.

 

 

return to the store time is a good time (edit IMO)

[gabe_j]

yeah if its not eating within a day or so you should take it back. i've got a green mandarin in a 8.75 gallon tank doing fine has been for going on 2 months now. eats piles of frozen food with no problem. he eats bloodworms, mysis, and brine. i'll let my frozen food sit with some cyclopeeze, and zoe, overnight and it hasn't been a problem since day one i would hatch live brine and with in 2 weeks it was fully trained on frozen.