The Propagator Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I might send the salt. But the algae will prolly die by the time it gets there. I really think it is detritus or algae. I never used to get it with IO either. And my sand was clean. Low cal tho also... You're not going to be sending a mixed sample. Your going to send the dry crystals so nothing will be diluted from the original mix. It could very well be the salt. If you want to be thorough though you could get a sterile cotton swab and swab the inside of your buckets, bag them, seal them and send with ? Question... Do you use the same buckets for fresh SW make up as you do to drain the old in to your changing? IE mixing them up indiscriminantly with out rinsing them out to make sure the new isn't mixing with the old ? Do you rinse and dry the buckets after water changes, or rinse them and turn them up side down or anything ? I don't think it would be that big of a deal but you might try rinsing them out and wiping them down real good. I have never heard of a salt mix developing algae in a freshly mixed clean bucket. Unless its sat covered for a week or so and went stagnant any ways. I would think that if you tested your salt mix directly after mixing you would immediately detect phosphates if spore were present, along with traces of nitrites and maybe nitrates due to the algae spores being in the mix and creating a protein source. Have you calibrated your TDS meter recently? Might want to try that to make sure your TDS is -0- from your RO unit. I swear man I must be the luckiest person on the planet ! I have honestly never had a problem with Oceanic mix. I/O always, Reef Crystals yep, Tropic marine yup... Oceanic nope. I dunno..... Luck of the Irish I guess ? Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I use 2 totally different containers for old water and new water. One is a bucket(saltwater mixing) the other is a 1 gallon water bottle(dirty water). The salt mixing bucket has never touched dirty water. I clean them out very well and then rinse with RO and then air dry. I might send a dry sample, i dont know, lets see what they say in the reply. BTW- THIS IS MY 1,000 POST!!!YAY Took a little more than 8 months. I still have a looooooooong way to get to you Prop. Link to comment
The Propagator Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 How long are you letting the new mix stand before using it ? You really would be better off sending a dry salt sample then a hydrated mix. I would also send a small cup of my RO water though If I were you. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I let it sit with a heater and ph about 20-24 hours. Sometimes a little more if i have time to make it earlier... Link to comment
BKtomodachi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 It could be some sort of miscellaneous nutrient in the mix or your water contributing to a noticeably think biofilm. It wouldn't need to be photosynthetic. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 It could be anything really. Tomorrow we see what their response is. Link to comment
qbical Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 yea i too mix my new water in one bucket and have the old stuff in a different one. the new water always has a mj1200 running to keep it mixed, and after awhile it does form a hard crust at the water line if it sits. i always try to keep the lid on it 3/4 of the way to try and minimize any dust floating in. by no means am i hating on oceanic btw, they may just have a batch issue or something. yay for the 1000 post lol Link to comment
The Propagator Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm gonna mix up a 1 gallon bucket of Oceanic and let it sit for a 4 days. I am going to try and get the results like the crust to form, and I am testing for copper, Phosphate, nitrite, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity, and PH. ( I should video tape it to show peeps I really do have no problems with it if it all turns out as expected this time too. LOL ! ) Like I said though it may be because I buy the 200 gal mix buckets.. ? Link to comment
Goonter Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I two use Oceanic and i am having this problem occur. I have tried everything, more flow, chaeto, switched to distilled water, etc. i even had my tiger tail sea cucumber split and so i have two of those working. It is amazing, i do a water change, and i can see the algae grow right before my eyes. It is almost like an easy bake oven.... Link to comment
The Propagator Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Now seriously... how fast do you actually notice the growth in real time ? Link to comment
ddelallata Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 arghh!!! I'm having the same problem as you guys! I'm too lazy to send any salt to Oceanic. I just wish I hadn't bought the 90gal mix. I couldn't figure this out either. Ammonia = 0 , Nitrite =0, Nitrate=0, PO4-3 =0 . I'm running ChemiPure Elite and RowaPhos and still this crazy algae bloom. How long does it take the bloom to go away? I like to change 5 gallons out of my RSM every weekend. Link to comment
Whacked Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Dang, I use Oceanic, the 50g jugs 'cause all the LFS carry it and its fairly cheap. IF I was to switch brands whats a good way to do it? just start with new salt in water changes or slowly add new salt with old in water changes? Link to comment
Goonter Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Now seriously... how fast do you actually notice the growth in real time ? it sounds farfetched, but 4 hours of light after the water change, the sand is lightly brown. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Seems like we are jumping the gun just a bit blaming the salt mix, no? I have to agree. We don't know for sure yet that it is the salt, it's all just speculation, so lets not get too crazy just yet. I'm curious to see what Oceanic's next response is. Link to comment
Ryan_H Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I have been a little lax in doing water changes over the summer. As a result I haven't been doing my regular weekly water change. What I have noticed is that I get an algae bloom for a couple of days after making a 10-15% PWC. With a few weeks betteen water changes I was able to see a bloom after every water change! I am using SeaChem Reef Salt and water that has been filtered through an AP de-ionizing filter. I was suspicious that the water was the problem, but a phosphate test on just the DI water showed no detectable level of phosphate. I mixed up 25litres of water as I usually do by running a power head and heater in the bucket and got the salinity to my usual 1.0245. This sample shows significant PO4 (0.25ppm). I was surprised to find this as I consider SeaChem to be a good salt mix. Anyone else have a similar experience? What are your favorite salt mixes? Cheers NRG actually .25-.5 is pretty standard PO4 level from any salt mix and not usually detrimental to the aquarium. i would be more worried about any mystery metals that the cheap DI might not be able to fully remove. instant ocean mixes to .5 ppm phosphate with no issues, and i have very little to no algae in my reef using seachem reeef salt and i'm TERRIBLE about water changes. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Well, oceanic still no response. But prop, your question on how long does it take for the algae to show... for me i notice it getting worse about 1 day after the waterchange. So i usually change on saturday evening and around noon sunday the algae strikes. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 This is what he said... How is the algae growing in the bucket if you clean it and leave dry? I’m not sure what would be causing the algae but there is nothing in the salt that would cause it. Thank You ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So i answered that it creates during mixing time and that i clean it very good after. He keeps saying that its not possible. I should send him a picture on the mixing bucket with the film crud on the sides and a picture of the algae in my tank. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Ok so they responded again, they are very fast, great service... I asked our R&D department about this and the response is below. It’s not algae. No algae in the world grows that fast, especially without light. What he is seeing is most likely a chemical precipitate. Calcium and magnesium will often scour out negatively charged ions (phosphates, carbonates, sulfates) that will form insoluble precipitates and form films on the buckets they are mixed in. The algae in the tank is formed by the refresh of the water chemistry in the aquarium after a water change. As water in the aquarium ages there are a variety of organic growth inhibitors released by algae and bacteria. When you perform the water change you remove these growth inhibitors and basically reset the system creating a new growth phase for the algae. The same thing would occur with any salt brand after a water change. Algae grows in cycles. Initial- Exponential growth- Death phase. When you perform a water change you jump from Death phase to Exponential growth very quickly. Thank You ------------------------------------------------------------ Ok so what do you guys make out of this? It might not be algae,ok, but whatever it is i wasnt getting this film on the wc bucket when i was using IO or now that i tryed with Coralife... Also, if this was the case, " When you perform the water change you remove these growth inhibitors and basically reset the system creating a new growth phase for the algae. The same thing would occur with any salt brand after a water change." everyone would have algae problems with any salt mix. I dont know...what should i respond to him? Link to comment
dtfleming Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 HMMMMMMM, idk I can see the algae not growing that fast in your mixing bucket. If what they are saying is true then basically every saltmix out there would cause this algae grow. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Ya i know... i just told him thanks for your fast responses and help. I didnt wanna get into an argument with him.LOL Link to comment
Ryan_H Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 the stuff in your mixing bucket is magnesium. trust me, me an 2 other guys took turns scraping 3/4" of the stuff out of our mixing vat at work for about 9 hours. the imbalance of magnesium precipitates calcium and carbonate, creating pH, alk, and calcium imbalance which encourages algae growth. if you have a large tank and are using a kalk reactor or calcium reactor, you probably wouldn't notice an issue. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Well, i have a Biocube 14 and really a kalk reactor or ca reactor is imho overdoing it.LOL I really need to get a more stable salt. So i am trying Coralife to see. my LFS uses that and i talked to them about it and they love it. They have 2 beautiful display tanks that run on coralife... so it must be decent. Link to comment
Ryan_H Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Well, i have a Biocube 14 and really a kalk reactor or ca reactor is imho overdoing it.LOLI really need to get a more stable salt. So i am trying Coralife to see. my LFS uses that and i talked to them about it and they love it. They have 2 beautiful display tanks that run on coralife... so it must be decent. exactly my point. if a salt is going to depend on outside influence for stability, it needs to say so on the bucket. Link to comment
GioReef Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 And obviously oceanic doesnt mention that anywhere...not even on customer support.LOL Link to comment
BKtomodachi Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The algae in the tank is formed by the refresh of the water chemistry in the aquarium after a water change. As water in the aquarium ages there are a variety of organic growth inhibitors released by algae and bacteria. When you perform the water change you remove these growth inhibitors and basically reset the system creating a new growth phase for the algae. Algae grows in cycles. Initial- Exponential growth- Death phase. When you perform a water change you jump from Death phase to Exponential growth very quickly. These parts are often overlooked, but make sense from a biological perspective. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.