Mr. Fosi's budget 20L

[mybuickskill6979]

SWEET!! <chants> fosi....fosi....fosi...fosi</chants> YOU CAN DO IT!!! lol!!

[Mr. Fosi]

Wow. Proflatlander's experience is a little sobering...

 

I have seen these overflows work on smaller tanks, but maybe they just aren't suited for larger tanks?

[reefone]

i have seen them work 2 i just thought id throw it out their.i like the 20L alot and didnt want to see u get another tank and have something go wrong and not do this tank.have u thought about a corner/center overflow with bulkhead or a horizontal one?i dont believe ur going to have alot of flow going through the sump so 1 bulkhead should work.not to intrusive.

[Mr. Fosi]

I have been thinking about through-the-wall options and I will soon have two 3/4" bulkheads (BHs) in addition to the 1" BH that I already own. I could always use the 1" BH as a drain and 1-2 of the 3/4" as inputs...

 

Initially, I was planning to use a magnum 350 canister as the sump pump because I already own it (i.e. don't have to buy it). A 350 wouldn't push much flow after the head pressure and I would rather using something like a mag or quiet one, but I don't have the $$ to buy one.

 

I am still a little freaked about the ease with which the tank cracked and it makes be think twice about drilling at all. Perhaps I should settle for a less pretty but safer over-the-wall option?

[mybuickskill6979]

awwww man!! dude everything has changed.

 

okay i shall do this. with my tenner. just to see what i can do. i just wanna see this done and see it work. if need be i'll pull the rear glass completely and replace it with 1/4" tempered. WAAAAAAHHHHHOOOOOO!! hehe!!

 

or make my own hehe!!

[Tentacles]

how about sell that cracked 20L to a reptile person or a pet store that keeps reptiles or stuff w/out the involvement of water, furry things....whatever, you could use a bit of extra $$, and just get a new (or used off local classifieds!) 20L and have a pro drill it for you, couldnt be too mucy money for that, Im having a hole drilled for a bulkhead for 5 bucks at my local glass shop.

 

or when you do it again picture it looking beautiful and no flaws occuring whatsoever.....thoughts become things

 

cant wait to see it up, gunna put your 5.5 stuff in it?

[bluebastion]

I have been thinking about through-the-wall options and I will soon have two 3/4" bulkheads (BHs) in addition to the 1" BH that I already own. I could always use the 1" BH as a drain and 1-2 of the 3/4" as inputs...

 

Initially, I was planning to use a magnum 350 canister as the sump pump because I already own it (i.e. don't have to buy it). A 350 wouldn't push much flow after the head pressure and I would rather using something like a mag or quiet one, but I don't have the $$ to buy one.

 

I am still a little freaked about the ease with which the tank cracked and it makes be think twice about drilling at all. Perhaps I should settle for a less pretty but safer over-the-wall option?

 

 

Fosi, here's my .02. Personally, I do take the initiative in trying to do alot of things myself... however drilling glass is one of those things that I think I would never try my hand at. With that said, I'd recommend calling up either Fins or Fishy Business and seeing what the price would be to buy a new 20 long through them with the respective hole(s) drilled. I'm pretty sure it will run around 20-50 bucks a pop. Fins might actually be cheaper... but in any case, to me it's more worth paying that kind of money, than to have to go through what you have gone through yet again.

 

HTH. My condolences.

 

P.S. this could also be a sign to set up that M-Tank.

[reefone]

or u could buy a diamond hole saw i got mine here and have seen many many people drill with these and they r only $10 shipped http://cgi.ebay.com/45mm-Diamond-coated-dr...4QQcmdZViewItem

[mybuickskill6979]

i'm gonna build a tank like this. fosi, let me have your plans i'll build it and dedicate it to the homey!!

 

if you can't tell im up for a challange hehe!!

[Professor]

Fosi,

Just a suggestion, but instead of cutting one long slot in the top of the tank, how about 1/4" holes spaced 1/4" apart spanning the same length as your current slot. You probably wouldn't lose much water volume and it will make a great surface skimmer. It should also give the opening more integrity and strength.

 

You can get a 1/4" carbide spade bit at Lowes or HD for about 6 bucks, or just dremel it (Dremel would probably be less stress on the glass).

 

Just a thought. I hope you keep plugging at it. I would like to see this work for you.

 

Prof.

[noobwithatank]

heres what i would do.. if ur not up for the task of drilling it (if you go that way) ask on the forums im sure there is someone withing a decent distance that will drill if for almost nothing if not free. if u were closer id offer, i put 4 holes in my 40, 1 hole in a 1 gallon and others here and there

[Mr. Fosi]

how about sell that cracked 20L to a reptile person or a pet store that keeps reptiles or stuff w/out the involvement of water, furry things... cant wait to see it up, gunna put your 5.5 stuff in it?

 

I'd love to, but I don't know anyone who is into herps. The classifieds isn't a terrible idea, but I haven't seen a 20L in a classified ad in a looong time.

 

Yes, I did plan to move the stuff from both my 5.5g & my 2.5g into it.

 

 

With that said, I'd recommend calling up either Fins or Fishy Business... I'm pretty sure it will run around 20-50 bucks a pop.

 

P.S. this could also be a sign to set up that M-Tank.

 

I can't afford to pay for even one $50 hole. I have been moving forward on this project with materials that I bought before I moved to SC and became as poor as I am. I'm not sure I can really afford another 20L, but I am still considering it because it is the main thing I need to move forward.

 

I would love to use that M-tank, if for no other reasons than it is both cost-effective & aesthetically pleasing, but I don't have anything I can use for a stand. I have kept my eye out at thrift shops for an end-table or some other suitable piece of used furnature, but I haven't seen any. Even if I found one, I am sure that they (even the Salvation Army) would overcharge for the item, since all of the thrift shops I have visited (~7 of them) charge more than what I think their furnature is worth.

 

 

u could buy a diamond hole saw i got mine here and have seen many many people drill with these and they r only $10 shipped

 

I've kept this in the back of my mind since I first concieved this project. The main reason I haven't bought one, aside from the cost, is because they cut only size hole and are prone to splintering the glass when they break through the far side. I have chosen to run a dremel because of the versitility.

 

 

... let me have your plans i'll build it and dedicate it to the homey!!

 

Do you want only the measurements for tank slit and overflow box?

 

 

Just a suggestion, but instead of cutting one long slot in the top of the tank, how about 1/4" holes spaced 1/4" apart spanning the same length as your current slot.

 

That is an interesting suggestion... Why do you think it would confer greater integrity?

 

 

if ur not up for the task of drilling it (if you go that way) ask on the forums im sure there is someone withing a decent distance that will drill if for almost nothing if not free.

 

Also not a bad idea, but it's not so much the act of drilling that puts me off, it is my current perception of integrity loss and potential catastrophic failure.

 

I already checked freecycle and all I found there was a bunch of "aquarium wanted" requests. I'm gonna jump online and see what I can find in The State's classifieds.

[mybuickskill6979]

I'd love to, but I don't know anyone who is into herps. The classifieds isn't a terrible idea, but I haven't seen a 20L in a classified ad in a looong time.

 

Yes, I did plan to move the stuff from both my 5.5g & my 2.5g into it.

I can't afford to pay for even one $50 hole. I have been moving forward on this project with materials that I bought before I moved to SC and became as poor as I am. I'm not sure I can really afford another 20L, but I am still considering it because it is the main thing I need to move forward.

 

I would love to use that M-tank, if for no other reasons than it is both cost-effective & aesthetically pleasing, but I don't have anything I can use for a stand. I have kept my eye out at thrift shops for an end-table or some other suitable piece of used furnature, but I haven't seen any. Even if I found one, I am sure that they (even the Salvation Army) would overcharge for the item, since all of the thrift shops I have visited (~7 of them) charge more than what I think their furnature is worth.

I've kept this in the back of my mind since I first concieved this project. The main reason I haven't bought one, aside from the cost, is because they cut only size hole and are prone to splintering the glass when they break through the far side. I have chosen to run a dremel because of the versitility.

Do you want only the measurements for tank slit and overflow box?

That is an interesting suggestion... Why do you think it would confer greater integrity?

Also not a bad idea, but it's not so much the act of drilling that puts me off, it is my current perception of integrity loss and potential catastrophic failure.

 

I already checked freecycle and all I found there was a bunch of "aquarium wanted" requests. I'm gonna jump online and see what I can find in The State's classifieds.

okay! i think i'll go at the tank from scratch. glass and silicon. so if i could get the mesurements of the aquarium as well por favor!!

[bluebastion]

Hey Fosi, if somehow you got another 20L... how would you handle the hole drilling again?

 

Fosi, also... PM me your telephone number ASAP. It better be in my inbox by the time I get home.

[Mr. Fosi]

PM sent.

 

As for the drilling, if I were to do more drilling, I would use the dremel again. The question in my mind is: what style of drilling to do. What sort of drilling will leave integrity?

 

I like Proflatlander's tank. I think his rook-like overflows are neat looking.

[mybuickskill6979]

well okay i won't do it to plans but i will do it so watch... for it. it may or may not but done to spec but i think you'll like it!!

[Mr. Fosi]

Slit = 14"

Overflow box = 15"x11.5"x4"

 

Slit flow rate, from http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...6085&st=60:

 

Or do the math, figure out the surface area of such a sized slot, then convert that to the appropriate diameter for a circle, and input that information into ReefCentral's overflow rate calculator!

 

L x W = SA = pi x (D/2)^2

2[(L x W)^(1/2)] / pi = Diameter of circle with equal surface area. Put that into the calcuator and find out!

 

~Wm

Edit: Okay, I admit, I was curious, so I just did the math. Reef Central suggested a diameter of .77 inches for 350 gph. The math I provided above yielded 1.065 inches diameter equivalent, that was assuming when you said "less than 1/4 inch" that is was .20 inches instead of .25". You get the picture. Seems like as long as tank-funk doesn't clog it up, you'll be golden.

 

 

[mybuickskill6979]

dude. your gonna give it another go? sweet.

 

written down the math stuff so now im a go crazy hehe!!

[reefone]

glad 2 see u didnt give up.

[Mr. Fosi]

I didn't give up, but I can't take credit for getting this new tank either.

 

This tank was a gift from a fellow reefer, I think you can guess which one. It is only through an unexpected, and undeserved act of charity that I have this new tank.

 

As such I am loath to break, or otherwise lose it. I very badly want to have a 20x10g system because a sump would allow me great deal of versitility, but I don't want to crack this tank while trying to get that. Of course I still have the other tank so if I were to crack a pane I can replace it, it's not like I haven't deconstructed and rebuilt tanks before...

 

I can make a kick-ass tank without a sump, but a 10g sump is what I really want for this system. I just can't make up my mind!

 

Maybe I should just flip a coin, best 2 out of three.

[mybuickskill6979]

dude just drill it use a piec off the old to reinforce the bulkhead

 

dude who ever gave you the tank man they deserve a big applause and a beer!! who ever it is kicks @$$!!

[bluebastion]

Maybe I should just flip a coin, best 2 out of three.

 

 

Sometimes, you just gotta cast lots.

[Osprey]

Disclaimer: I'm on your side, and what you were planning would have looked cool, but . . .

 

After I saw what happened to the first tank, I went and looked up something in a book I have laying around the house. Here, I will quote it:

 

The condition causing cracks to develop at a particular point is stress concentration at the point combined with the repetition of the stress, as would occur with vibration. Stress concentrations are cause (sic) by nicks, scratches, or incorrect design factors. Complete failure of [...] structures has been caused by stress concentrations where material has been cut to form a notch. In all repairs, the technician must make sure that material is not cut to form a sharp angle between two edges and that where two edges come together to form an angle, the material is rounded ("radiused") to a radius sufficient to prevent stress concentrations. The radius should be made as smooth as possible.

 

That's from McKinley and Bent, Aircraft Maintenance and Repair, 4th Ed. They're talking about metal airplane wings, but this applies to your glass because there's no way you can possibly make a perfectly smooth edge on a long slot like that with a handheld dremel. You're inevitably going to have nicks and indentations and places where the edge is not smooth, and you are likely to have tiny (maybe even invisible) cracks here and there in the glass edge. All those places = stress concentrations.

 

Those tiny cracks are only going to grow bigger as the tank is put under stress, and sooner or later (probably sooner) you are going to have a catastrophic failure.

 

It's possible to get away with drilling a round hole in glass because the radius of the curve is the same all the way around and there is nowhere for the stress to concentrate, and the edge can be made perfectly smooth. It's also relatively easy to add strain relief to a round hole like that - just put a round fitting in there, with a wide enough flange on both sides.

 

A conventional rectangular glass aquarium has strain relief all the way around every edge of every piece of glass. Either the edges of the glass are attached to each other at right angles, with one preventing the other from flexing (at the edge) or else there is a sturdy plastic frame doubling the edge of the glass and protecting it from even being touched.

 

I don't think the long slot you have in mind can ever be safe, especially not with 20 gallons of salt water in there. You might be able to get away with a few round holes, but not a long slot like that. Sorry, I had to say it.

[bluebastion]

.....or listen to a voice of reason.

[Mr. Fosi]

Sorry, I had to say it.

 

No need to apologize; facts are facts.

 

That makes sense, even though metals (orderly, crystalline structure) are very different from glass (amorphous, non-organized structure).

 

What I take from that quote is this: perfectly round is great but reasonably round is acceptable. So then, would you only trust holes drilled using diamond hole saws, or would a reasonably round freehand hole work as well?