New to plumbing and drilling

[DimePieceReef]

Hey reef peeps. I recently aquired an AGA 29. I plan on transfering everything from my 10 into the 29. However I have some questions where Im hoping you guys can help or direct me in the right direction. I plan on drilling the 29 to a 10 gallon sump. I just ordered a 1 3/4 glass drill bit and 2 1' bulkheads. I plan on drilling one hole for a return and one for the drain. Is that enough? Also where is the best place to drill? I was thinking one on each back panel corner of the water line. I also just purchase a quiet one 2200 581gph. As for the plumbing Im complety confused. Can I just connect a flex hose to the bulkhead drain to the sump? As for the return. Should I just use pvc with a ballvalve in the middle? I know this is a lot. If its easier maybe someone can just direct me to a design thread with the specifics of each piece I would appreciate it. Thanks peeps.

 

Noah

[Gigaah]

I don't know much about drilling glass.

 

Hose is good. I don't know what you mean by flex hose exactly, but clear hose is good. I use hose for my drain.You probalby want a plastic ball valve on the drain and the return. I also use hose on the return side as well. Most people use PVC pipe. Its easy to work with and cheap. I use hose because every elbow reduces flow. Use 45 elbows where you can, I try to use two 45s in place of one 90 where possible. Its certainly not required however.

 

Not matter what you use get a plastic union for both the return and the supply. You'll need to disassemble things sooner or later.

[DimePieceReef]

I don't know much about drilling glass.

 

Hose is good. I don't know what you mean by flex hose exactly, but clear hose is good. I use hose for my drain.You probalby want a plastic ball valve on the drain and the return. I also use hose on the return side as well. Most people use PVC pipe. Its easy to work with and cheap. I use hose because every elbow reduces flow. Use 45 elbows where you can, I try to use two 45s in place of one 90 where possible. Its certainly not required however.

 

Not matter what you use get a plastic union for both the return and the supply. You'll need to disassemble things sooner or later.

 

Thanks a lot gigahh...Got a few more for ya though. Is a clear hose the same thing as vinal tubing..like the stuff gavel vaccumms are made of? Can I get the ball valves and 45's at a lowes or HD? Thanks again.

[bitts]

check the overflow thread to see if there are ? you didnt know to ask or if there are things that need clarifacation of, ask.

[DimePieceReef]

check the overflow thread to see if there are ? you didnt know to ask or if there are things that need clarifacation of, ask.

 

 

Ok...thanks bits. Though Im not sure if that applys to my situaton because Im not using an overflow...but Ill check it out anyway.

[Codeman]

Ok...thanks bits. Though Im not sure if that applys to my situaton because Im not using an overflow...but Ill check it out anyway.

 

If you're drilling the tank, then you need some kind of overflow.

[DimePieceReef]

If you're drilling the tank, then you need some kind of overflow.

 

 

I dont understand? I thought if that if I drill I dont need an overflow kit. No? I was going to drill 2 holes holes one on each top corner of the back panel with the bulkheads. Correct me if Im wrong...but with gravity water will fall into the bulkhead hole down and through the sump and back up through the other bulkhead hole? Why do I need an overflow kit? Am i missing something? Thanks again peeps.

[Codeman]

I dont understand? I thought if that if I drill I dont need an overflow kit. No? I was going to drill 2 holes holes one on each top corner of the back panel with the bulkheads. Correct me if Im wrong...but with gravity water will fall into the bulkhead hole down and through the sump and back up through the other bulkhead hole? Why do I need an overflow kit? Am i missing something? Thanks again peeps.

 

You don't need a 'kit' per se, but its always good to have the bulkhead in some sort of overflow box for water level control, and to keep critters out of the drain line. You can make a diy acrylic overflow box or corner overflow for pretty cheap.

 

If you don't want a box in the tank, I'd at least put an intake dtrainer on the bulkhead and probably do an external durso standpipe.

[DimePieceReef]

You don't need a 'kit' per se, but its always good to have the bulkhead in some sort of overflow box for water level control, and to keep critters out of the drain line. You can make a diy acrylic overflow box or corner overflow for pretty cheap.

 

If you don't want a box in the tank, I'd at least put an intake dtrainer on the bulkhead and probably do an external durso standpipe.

 

 

Ok..gotcha. Ill put a drainer over the bulkhead...and I will look into what an external durso standpipe is. I think I seen that in the overflow thread. Thanks again!

[Meengineer0128]

Got to this a little late man. Check out my thread. I have an overflow and sump/refug. for my BC29 that I did. All the plumbing is mine. If my calc is right I am pushing around 300 gph out of each nozzle, which is a whole lot, but the system you will notice is setup for the eventual addition of another thank (the 3/4" valve to no where). I say its a whole lot because I have 2 MP10wES in the tank also. Instead of drilling (actually drilled and cracked the first tank) I went with a CPR Aquatics overflow with the aqualifter pump. As long as the pump runs, siphon stays. Yes, before anyone says anything, there could be a huge disaster that could stop the pump from running or some crazy set of events that could unfold that could cause an overflow, but between the check valve in the air line and other safety's, I can say that the system is 98% fail proof (have to account for the unknown wierd things that can and do happen).

 

Check out the tank, maybe help you with some ideas.

[bitts]

read the tread. come back with ?'s

its the sticky at the top.

[Meengineer0128]

read the tread. come back with ?'s

its the sticky at the top.

??????

[Meengineer0128]

read the tread. come back with ?'s

its the sticky at the top.

 

I was just trying to help him get an idea for the plumbing and to warn him away from drilling if he has no experience doing so. It is not as easy as people make it out to be, and if you ask any glass worker, they will tell you that drilling glass without experience is really a hit or miss thing. After my gamble and failure, I am just offering an alternative to drilling.

 

My plumbing uses 90's, but that is because I wanted some extra friction loss. As far as 45's though, when you add the friction loss for the two 45's and a pup piece in between, your above the friction loss for 1 90. If you use a slip 45 and a street 45 your friction loss is actually equal to 1 90. If you look at the plumbing on the back, all of it is slip fittings. I use flex tubing from the pump to a 3/4" ball valve (main shutoff valve). It then runs to a tee with a 3/4" ball valve on both downstream branches. These are for when I am cleaning one tank I don't have to shut off the whole system. After the 3/4" ball valve, I drop to 1/2" to maintain the psi value I am looking for at the outlets. It then tee's again and goes into the tank on each side.

 

The return, again, is just a CPR aquatics overflow box (though there are DIY boxes on this site). A 3/4" outlet to a 1"x3/4" reducer. Then 1" hose to the sump. The reason that the hose is 1" is only because when I built the bagholder, I drilled the holes for 1" (oooops). Not a big deal though.

 

Hope this gives you some ideas, and partially answers some of your plumbing questions. Again, as far as drilling the tank, I would avoid it unless you know someone who does glass work that you are comfortable with drilling your tank.

[DimePieceReef]

I was just trying to help him get an idea for the plumbing and to warn him away from drilling if he has no experience doing so. It is not as easy as people make it out to be, and if you ask any glass worker, they will tell you that drilling glass without experience is really a hit or miss thing. After my gamble and failure, I am just offering an alternative to drilling.

 

My plumbing uses 90's, but that is because I wanted some extra friction loss. As far as 45's though, when you add the friction loss for the two 45's and a pup piece in between, your above the friction loss for 1 90. If you use a slip 45 and a street 45 your friction loss is actually equal to 1 90. If you look at the plumbing on the back, all of it is slip fittings. I use flex tubing from the pump to a 3/4" ball valve (main shutoff valve). It then runs to a tee with a 3/4" ball valve on both downstream branches. These are for when I am cleaning one tank I don't have to shut off the whole system. After the 3/4" ball valve, I drop to 1/2" to maintain the psi value I am looking for at the outlets. It then tee's again and goes into the tank on each side.

 

The return, again, is just a CPR aquatics overflow box (though there are DIY boxes on this site). A 3/4" outlet to a 1"x3/4" reducer. Then 1" hose to the sump. The reason that the hose is 1" is only because when I built the bagholder, I drilled the holes for 1" (oooops). Not a big deal though.

 

Hope this gives you some ideas, and partially answers some of your plumbing questions. Again, as far as drilling the tank, I would avoid it unless you know someone who does glass work that you are comfortable with drilling your tank.

 

Wow. Thanks a lot man. I think Im starting to understand the plumbing side a lot more now. I still need to do some more reading though. I bought two ball valves in the mean time. I think mine are double-union? I bought those so I have the capabilties of taking it apart because Ive read they can go bad? I like your setup too. I think a may do something similar. However, Im trying to do just one return and one intake with one ball valve on both the return and intake. Also, if you dont mind telling me how you got the vinyl tubing connected to the pump? Is there just a metal clamp on it? I figured tthat's how you had it but then I thought it might rust being submerged in the water?

Also I already bought the two bulkheads and diamond drill bit and I may be just stubborn but I already have my mind made on drilling . I plan on doing it this weekend some time so Ill let you guys know how it went. I really appreciate all the help dude. Thanks again.

[Meengineer0128]

Wow. Thanks a lot man. I think Im starting to understand the plumbing side a lot more now. I still need to do some more reading though. I bought two ball valves in the mean time. I think mine are double-union? I bought those so I have the capabilties of taking it apart because Ive read they can go bad? I like your setup too. I think a may do something similar. However, Im trying to do just one return and one intake with one ball valve on both the return and intake. Also, if you dont mind telling me how you got the vinyl tubing connected to the pump? Is there just a metal clamp on it? I figured tthat's how you had it but then I thought it might rust being submerged in the water?

Also I already bought the two bulkheads and diamond drill bit and I may be just stubborn but I already have my mind made on drilling . I plan on doing it this weekend some time so Ill let you guys know how it went. I really appreciate all the help dude. Thanks again.

 

 

once a month I take the plumbing fixture out and flush it with vinegar. This keeps the plumbing clean. I also do some minor valve maint. which adds to the life. Using the dual union BV's isn't bad though. I like to keep a double block system in case of emergencies. There are always two valves blocking a flow direction. This is good in the event that one fails.

 

As far as the pump and tubing go, I added pictures to explain. I did not use a steel clamp. NO STEEL IN WATER, lol, even stainless or galvanized will wear down due to the salt water's corrosive properties. I found these nylon clamps at my LFS. A little more expensive than the steel ones (about a dollar more), but they are just as strong and get the job done.

 

[DimePieceReef]

once a month I take the plumbing fixture out and flush it with vinegar. This keeps the plumbing clean. I also do some minor valve maint. which adds to the life. Using the dual union BV's isn't bad though. I like to keep a double block system in case of emergencies. There are always two valves blocking a flow direction. This is good in the event that one fails.

 

As far as the pump and tubing go, I added pictures to explain. I did not use a steel clamp. NO STEEL IN WATER, lol, even stainless or galvanized will wear down due to the salt water's corrosive properties. I found these nylon clamps at my LFS. A little more expensive than the steel ones (about a dollar more), but they are just as strong and get the job done.

 

 

Once again thank you meengineer. I also promised you an update so here it is and it's not good. I should have listened to your advise against drilling...but Im hard headed and I I cracked my tank. You are correct. It is not easy. WTF! The dudes on youtube made it look so effin easy.....I thought.... heh no problem I got this... well. Here's a look of how I got it.

 

 

So now it has become my practice glass hole tank...and instead of me upping to a 29gallon I have to go with a 20long now that I also have. Wifey was not happy at all. So at the moment Im not allowed to get another tank. Im getting better at drilling though...but not where I want to be. The hardest part is getting it started. Once it's notched out Im ok but I still cant seem to get a clean cut circle. It always seems like a small piece from the inside part of the glass comes off with the circle. Heres a pic of a decent hole I made.

 

If I get good at this l may attempt to drill the 20L. If not. I may have to find someone that can drill it for me. I guess Ill mark this down as a true (Doh! moment ) and a lesson learned.

[epicfish]

Are you drilling with a template?

 

Are you putting downward pressure on the glass?

[bitts]

drilling is a pain in the bleep. any pressure & it cracks after all thats how you cut glass. before you start, there are thing to know. for drilling use a template and reinforce the backside of the glass. there will almost always be chips. there are drill press jigs for drills they run about 30. makes things easier but not completly nessasry. practice on replasment picture glass. cheap and worth the investment.

 

 

engine

im sorry if anything i said afend. i was simply trying to let him learn what he needs to know & actualy wants be for telling him what he wants most on here know im like the charter member of the herbie fan club. and after doing 3 or 4 herbie based tens and resently an exo 29 i have some pretty strong opinions about the best way of doing things

 

such as siphon based overflows will loose siphon. this costs you a 100 dollar pump or wet floors. either way no more wife. check valves fail. again no more wife. drains clog no mater what end with wet floors. again no more wife.

 

ok so since where talking now any way thing to think about before doing any thing else.

 

what type of overflow will best suit your needs.

do you under stand the pros & cons of each.

 

based on the flow needs of your setup how will the plumbing be best set up.

 

all tanks which are drilled need an internal overflow wall to prevent it from draining to point at which it was drilled.

 

what do plan to stock the tank with. will there be design restrections because of this.

 

my favorite wheres it going/ how loud can the tank be

 

 

this may give you ideas

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240479

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=232125

 

 

totally willing to help plan things i just dont want to force my opinion down your throat.

also before you use some thing its inportant to know why & how it works. thats why i think you should read the threads.

[DimePieceReef]

drilling is a pain in the bleep. any pressure & it cracks after all thats how you cut glass. before you start, there are thing to know. for drilling use a template and reinforce the backside of the glass. there will almost always be chips. there are drill press jigs for drills they run about 30. makes things easier but not completly nessasry. practice on replasment picture glass. cheap and worth the investment.

 

 

engine

im sorry if anything i said afend. i was simply trying to let him learn what he needs to know & actualy wants be for telling him what he wants most on here know im like the charter member of the herbie fan club. and after doing 3 or 4 herbie based tens and resently an exo 29 i have some pretty strong opinions about the best way of doing things

 

such as siphon based overflows will loose siphon. this costs you a 100 dollar pump or wet floors. either way no more wife. check valves fail. again no more wife. drains clog no mater what end with wet floors. again no more wife.

 

ok so since where talking now any way thing to think about before doing any thing else.

 

what type of overflow will best suit your needs.

do you under stand the pros & cons of each.

 

based on the flow needs of your setup how will the plumbing be best set up.

 

all tanks which are drilled need an internal overflow wall to prevent it from draining to point at which it was drilled.

 

what do plan to stock the tank with. will there be design restrections because of this.

 

my favorite wheres it going/ how loud can the tank be

 

 

this may give you ideas

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240479

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=232125

 

 

totally willing to help plan things i just dont want to force my opinion down your throat.

also before you use some thing its inportant to know why & how it works. thats why i think you should read the threads.

 

Wow! Thanks a lot bits! Ill def check those threads out when I have more time. I work long hours so I have a problem with rushing things sometimes with the little time I have. Im actually working now on break. Ill try to answer some of your questions as well.

 

1.I plan to stock the tank with 3-4 fish, some softies and LPS. Maybe SPS in the future.

2.My 10 gallon which Im transfering to the 20L is in the basement and the new one will be as well. So noise is not really a concern.

3.No I do not understand the pros and cons of both...but from what I have read so far drilling is better than an overflow.

 

Ok. Now I have a question. Forgive my dumbazz but when you say template. Do you mean a piece of paper or tape with the hole pattern on it? Also if some chips come off with the drilled hole piece is that ok? Will the rubber washer and bulkhead prevent the tank from leaking? Also from what Im to understand from reading your last post you prefer and pump for both the return and the intake? And finally will my wife and I be handing our divorce papers in by years end? Thanks a lot bits. Again. When I get the time Ill def do some more research b4 I attempt to drill again.

[luvinmyacans]

drilling is better than an overflow.

 

You are drilling to add an "overflow". Overflow is the term used when water "overflows" from the tank to a sump.

[bitts]

First

To define overflow

+1 to luvinmyacans

Overflow = water flows over to the drain. Where this happens is called a weir. There are 2 types with sub types there after. Internal & siphon based. internal is a wall that water simple flows over. Siphon type is normally referred to as continues siphon overflow, where the water flows up & over the back of the tank. When the siphon fails the tank overflow, or in properly design setups you run the pump dry.

 

Sub types of internal overflows.

 

Standard issue 2 or 3 sided internal glass wall. (Tried & true)

Calfo coast to coast.

External coast to coast.

Pvc coast to coast.

 

These all drain based on gravity. Even the siphon based (siphon simply moves water to the drain.)

 

Next comes drain types.

Starting with stand pipes(loudest), stockman, durso, moving up in complexity & sound level to herbie & bean(dead silent). All have a place & use.

 

As the drain enters the sump/fuge it is useful to run it through a hartford loop to remove any last bubbles before they enter the sump. This causes noise & salt creep.

 

Second

Drain placement is based on hole size & depth. See my water flow thread for a more detailed explanation & flow calculator.

 

Drains will always clog. Not an if but a when. Therefore use a back up. (Herbie)

 

 

3rd

Drilling two schools, hole saw & dremel.

No matter which type let the tool do the work. Templates or jigs made from wood or plastic help to giude the tool as you start the cut. When drilling (holesaw) renforcing the back side. This will help prevent large chips. With the dremel have found the tile cutting bit to work best.

 

 

4th

Bulkheads

Need an overflow to prevent the tank simply draining to this point when the pumps power is cut. Ruber washer is placed on the inside of the tank. While the threaded porton is to go outside. Bulkheads are to be finger tightened, over tightening can cause them to leak.

 

 

 

Propperly designed tanks lead to happy wifes & dry floors.

[Meengineer0128]

Propperly designed tanks lead to happy wifes & dry floors.

 

+1

 

Bitts, you didn't offend me, I was just confused by the post after mine and did not know if it was meant for me or Dime piece. I was just confused more than anything.

 

Now, just my .02 on this whole matter.

 

Drilling is less risky in the long run than using a continuous siphon. However, a single cutting mistake can cost you (depending on size and type of tank) hundreds of dollars. It is an un-necessary risk given todays continuous siphon technology. I use the CPR aquatics Continuous siphon with the aqua lifter pump (which is only 10$ online). This ensures that your siphon will never fail. The only failure mode I can even see happening is the actual CPR box cracks or something with-in the box breaks, but that can happen to any component on or within your tank or sump. The up front cost is a little expensive, the box+pump is 120$ after tax and shipping, but then all you have to worry about is general maint. Like Bitts says, as long as you design and maintain your tank well, there won't be a problem. I will have no more maint. on my siphon overflow than you will with a drilled tank. If you are unfamiliar with the CPR Aquatics Siphon box, please look it up.... Even if the aqua lifter pump fails, the built in check valve on the pump nozzle keeps the siphon going, and because I love double protection, lol, I added an additional check valve (1$) to the tubing from the nozzle to the pump. If both those check valves and my pump fail..... God must hate me. Even in a power outage, the min. the power turns on, the aqua lifter pump turns on and just restarts the siphon. I know Dime that you really want to drill, I am just throwing this out there so you know that siphon isn't the disaster waiting to happen that it used to be.

 

Also, on the drain line, instead of the hartford loop, I use a filter bag. I like this because it kills micro bubbles and also acts as a mechanical filter. I only did this because of my lack of room, however now that I have it, I love the filter bag.

 

Well thats just my .02.

 

So when are you going to try again??? Maybe a youtube video is in order this time??? That way, right or wrong, it will be a good learning tool, plus people can comment on what you might have done wrong if it doesn't work again (I am hoping things go right!!!!).

 

Whats going on with the sump??? Pick out a pump yet???

[bitts]

Another thought as to the siphon is instead of the aqualifter would be to tap into the return line with some ro tubing and use this to maintain the siphon. Any thoughts engine.

[dylan1464]

arent you suppose to drill at an angle first and then straight down?

[bitts]

Without a jig, yes. this is to keep the bit from walking.