Beating Bryopsis-Started TechM-Done!

[brandon429]

Agreed tech m is a fine backup if super clean peroxide won't work, peroxide first run is ideal.

 

 

 

never got to discuss the eccentric things done nonreefing, for tainment. thanks for asking

 

We only micro dive

Spare air dive backup bottles/reg strapped to legs, change out underwater upon exhaustion, 8 mins per bottle, 10-15 foot depth max but true deploy n fun. 18 mins per drop usually.

 

 

Mask, a lead weight strapped around waist using a nylon belt and a few spare air bottles for a good ~20 mins dive time per run (in car trunk can be three full dive tanks and fill station for mini bottles)

 

A dirty lake outside sweet water... or possibly one of the large public swimming pools in Lubbock. My child didnt dive lakes but my buddies do. Not huge depths, just underwater for fun when poss

 

it is critical detail to know that we are under water but not in a cool place, or by a cool method it is Texas panhandle no alternative diving.

 

Pool lifeguards look at us quizzically after coming back up 18 mins ~ later. Never really ask permission, my daughter and I when she was younger put the gear in a swim bag and boot up near the edge of the pool... A mask is nbd, attracts no attention. We strap lead at the right time/scoot the swim bags over and slip into the water fast with no bubbles and deploy the backup air underwater, she could mask and reg clear reliably at age ten and master breathing control, no panic. We trained no panic mask clearing months before ever touching breathing gear. The child was a natural breathe control diver lol trained by dad using scooby technique but is now strictly a mall and college going 19 yr old microdiving is likely passé

[Pjanssen]

I think I'll stick with my 60-80 foot South Florida reef dives. The ultimate nano reef!

[Halo_003]

you have a beatable situation nice pics

 

whats been missing all these years in bry battles is working the anchors not by adding stuff to the water, where the upper limits of tolerance are set by your nontargets (stresses to them listed above) but by using your peroxide and kent on cleaned off areas only to burn the holdfasts that regrew in halo's tank above example. it was missing the critical step covered here

 

again, your bry can be beaten within about a week with this hard work technique, and no form of peroxide can hurt your zos or palys at all, no matter how applied. the tech m sure might.

A side effect of only seeing your tank on weekends is it makes maintenance a real PITA lol. I will beat it eventually!

[brandon429]

agreed and that's why I don't own larger reefs, so I miss out on owning fish. even the work required to keep mine invader free is full tolerance work ~ sometimes just a good hammer down weekend is catchup gold

 

even a good rasping and burn might leave holdfasts, its not intended to be one-off fix for a set-in invader w anchors. its merely the most assertive way we currently know to build on prior approaches. the only alternate way is to dose something more to the water, affecting nontargets further...it seemed we had to double back and hit the target directly now to have any room for amplification without overdriving the system.

[Pjanssen]

okay professor. Home from work. Ready to commence operation bryopsis eradication. Please confirm the following equation for me.

Rate of 1ML 3% peroxide to 10 gallons salt water (known safe reek solution) =.1ML to 1 gallon=.05ML to 1/2 gallon=.25 to 1 quart, which is what I will be using. Seems like such a minute solution to tackle such a big job.

[brandon429]

I would use the straight peroxide on the cleaned target, in fact if you could get 6% even better (most cannot, its 3% typically) the only time to use the diluted run is when you are working around animals in the tank...I know it was confusing but regarding that dilution run that was what we could try on a test rock separate from this, to see if treating your whole tank with peroxide (or tech m) would have worked.

 

if you dose tank water to 1500ppm magnesium to try the Kent method of water dosing to beat bryopsis, we are saying you could hit your test rock with a soln set at 1500ppm before adding anything to the tank. if that test rock responded to that dilution, then run the whole tank method

 

the only reason to treat the rock with diluted peroxide is to see if dumping peroxide in your topwater will work, just for later musings. for today, if you cleaned that rock and put 35% peroxide on target, that's ideal. we are literally trying to burn that rasped spot with peroxide, kent, literal fire from a butane lighter etc. its the true kill we are seeking, since working out of tank no dilutions needed.

 

 

those dilution runs are better than just jumping off and treating a whole tank at 1500 ppm, they use a little rock model to see if your invader responds at all to dilutions. what you are doing today with no dilution and scraping is the harshest approach we know, and it does not kill off critical bacteria as you are dumping peroxide on things, or letting rocks be in air. the bacteria are tough as they exist in groups and inside various insulations etc

[Pjanssen]

Ok. Honestly, I don't have that many areas to treat (since I got it fairly early) to try so many different methods. So for today, it's

1) straight 3% peroxide on bryopsis

2) 3% peroxide on rock cleaned of bryopsis by using rasp

3) rock cleaned of bryopsis by using rasp. no peroxide.

 

No dilution of peroxide since you have assured me that the peroxide should not harm my Zoanthids or Palys if accidentally hit, though it may harm my Xenia which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[brandon429]

yep for sure that's the ideal test. even at reef2reef we are getting bryopsis tanks daily, all of them kent dosing. your test w be viewed by many eyes and it could help others see if things are worth the effort. I attacked my valonia at only 3 bubbles total, so it wasn't hard to wipe out like this. for the more challenging coverages of that or bryopsis or other benthic invaders it will be neat to see how well growback is controlled using out of tank dealings

[Pjanssen]

Operation Bryopsis eradication test#1

IMG_3228 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3233 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3232 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3236 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3238 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3239 by Penny, on Flickr

In this part of the test, I simply applied straight 3% peroxide on the affected area, waited 2 minutes, then rinsed in clean salt water. Repeated

[Pjanssen]

Operation Bryopsis eradication test#2

IMG_3234 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3237 by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3235 by Penny, on Flickr

 

The first step in this test was to manually remove as much of the bryopsis as possible. Then I took the coarse metal rasp and filed away the area. I see by the photograph that I might have missed some of the bryopsis, but I need to pick up a smaller rasp to fit in-between the nooks, crannies and corals. Then I doused the area with 3% peroxide. water 2 minutes. Rinsed. Repeated

[Pjanssen]

Operation Bryopsis eradication test#3

Bryopsis Journrny by Penny, on FlickrIMG_3241 by Penny, on Flickr

In this test, I simply removed as much of the bryopsis as possible, then rasped away the surface. No peroxide. Rinsed with fresh salt water and put back in the tank.

Will try to pick up a smaller rasp tonight to do a better job on test#2. Also will pick up new ammonia test kit to test for die off due to rocks being out of water for 5 minutes. Then we watch.

[brandon429]

really good to watch cant wait to see outcomes. nice build up~

 

even though I have 56 videos to be edited...one of them is a nice rip cleaning of my whole 10 yr old pico reef where all in one shot I take the whole reef apart, set rocks and corals on the cabinet in the air for 25 mins, work the sand clean with a tap water rinse, then rinse back out with saltwater, then set everything back in just under half an hour later

 

 

 

your 5 was well within spec!

 

All of your test rocks are going to look pretty nice post treatment I'm thinking. But that second week mark should let us gauge grow back to see which method your whole tank wants.

[brandon429]

PJan, your thread is helping here see the bottom

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/page-14#post-2907502

 

 

 

your prep work and pics are great~the daunting task of cleaning a large-scale invasion should solidify any reader that we do not play with bryopsis, we win and get it gone and take no chance with it. The title of your thread was motivating, someone was finally fed up. Partiality gone, willing to take a sword to the stone.

 

Even though it's unideal to scrape off coralline and aging nice color on the rocks, if gets the anchors it's necessary. It's preferable to rock cooking etc because it preserves the bio filter of the rock...harsh externally, fully preservational internally where the holdfasts are not.

 

If I had a 75 gallon I'd try Kent before scraping to check on any first round compliance because a tank cleaning is truly time consuming...but in a nano we should refuse access immediately like you've done, taking advantage of the quick work a nano allows

[Pjanssen]

just a quick update. 2 days later. The area treated with just peroxide still has some bryopsis on it, but has definitely shrunk quite a bit, and it looks like more of it is dying. Not a very good picture, but I think you can see it. Before:IMG_3228 by Penny, on Flickr

After:

IMG_3249 by Penny, on Flickr

The area that was scrubbed and then treated with peroxide shows no sign of regrowth.IMG_3250 by Penny, on Flickr

The area that was just scrubbed I believe is still bryopsis free, but there is some green on iy already. Too soon to tell if it is a nucience algae or hopefully coraline.IMG_3251 by Penny, on Flickr

I also want to note that the xenia that was hit by peroxide is doing just fine. So much for peroxide for getting rid of it.

[rosecity]

Just had my own battle with bryopsis. Like you I started with Tech M and ended with H2O2. Hopefully my experience can help some folks dealing with this.

 

My bryopsis was alot thicker and more plentiful than in your pics. Previously I had dipped in 3% H202 diluted to 1 cup H202 to 2 gallons tank water. The bryopsis predictably died within 2 days but a week later came back thicker than ever. I did not scrub, just dipped.

 

I then used Tech M and raised the mag level to around 2200 with it from 1300. I did not manually remove the bryopsis or scrub. After 1 week at mag 2200 with no water changes the bryopsis started turning whitish at the tips. After 2 weeks no change, and after 3 weeks it started growing again. Again no manual removal or scrubbing.

 

Next step I removed the rocks and dipped in 3% H202 1 cup to 2 gallon tank water but this time also scrubbed. This removed most of the bryopsis strands. Rinsed off with more tank water. Again in 2-3 days the bryopsis turned white and melted away. I also started doing water changes (10% daily) to bring the mag levels back down to normal.

 

I was fully expecting the bryopsis to grow back. What I observed was not much grew back at all and the parts that did turned white and melted away a few days later. I believe the Tech M still in the water killed off the newly regrowing bryopsis. 1 month later no bryopsis at all anywhere which quite frankly surprised me.

 

Some observations. Firstly I believe the success was the scrubbing and breaking of the bryopsis stems. I believe this allowed the Tech M to really do its job. H2O2 was a great companion tool to really knock it out quickly. Without Tech M I believe the bryopsis would have just grown back. If there is a next time I will just do a peroxide scrubbing first and then start dosing Tech M to kill the regrowth.

 

Secondly with mag at 2200 my turbos and trochus snails were very lethargic and had trouble holding onto the tank walls and rocks. After a few 10% water changes they were back to themselves.

 

Thirdly raising mag also raised the levels measured by my refractometer. A refractometer actually measures the refractive index of water, not salinity at all. At 2200 mag the index was 1.35. Obviosly the salinity was unchanged so no need to add fresh water to bring the index down. I have seen threads in the past where people added freshwater thinking increased mag had somehow increased salinity and they ended up killing lots of corals and blamed it on Tech M. Don't be fooled by your refractometer when raising mag off the charts!

[Pjanssen]

Great input. Thanks for sharing. I have not done techM yet, was putting off until this little experiment is over. BAsed on the results, will dose TechM next if need be. Not sure how long I should wait. Maybe 1 month? Yet I don't want the bryopsis in the tank that haunt been treated at all to take over in that time. Maybe just 2 weeks.

[brandon429]

PJann

 

hows it ive linked this bad boy to many now, mostly at R2R so far we are curious if your rasped areas are still good, and how did the non rasped bry behave a few days later? Even the force-cleaned areas may req a touchup...if holdfasts were missed, but predictably it should be way under the nonrasped items just checking in

 

Should the holdfast area develop growths/deposits quickly after rasping, then we have a clear indication of water nutrients and lighting variables to consider beyond just root wars but typically removing holdfasts alone wins.

[Pjanssen]

1 week after treating, still no sign of the bryopsis in any of the three areas treated. This is good for me and my tank, maybe not so good for determining the best method for treatment. Still, 1 week is not so long. Will continue to monitor.

[brandon429]

http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/page-11

 

In post #212 that's good res pics of me using the rasping technique to absolutely prevent valonia infestation in one pass. My rasper was metal surgical scissors... gouged the holdfast point and broke off chips. Treated with 35% for an ultra burn. Got some 35 accidentally on cuticle of thumb, a double ultra burn heh and worth it

 

Valonia takes over where indecisiveness prevails. It's not possible for any anchored invader to beat a rasp if caught early enough, the variables are how well did the first pass gouge/burn. I usually overdo grossly because I'm not playing around. The tone in your thread title was easy to recognize.

 

My reef is too old to risk to one single strand, one single vacuole or one single patch, all are disallowed. My rocks have higher po4 in them due to being in a vase for a decade and as such there is no room to risk plants that enjoy phosphates.

[tetraodon]

i battled bryop twice, the first time it was easily controlled with tech M, the second time, they shrugged off tech M like no ones business. i ended up emptying my tank of live stock a nuking the tank on purpose. since then ive not had any issues with it, i had an extreme case unfortunately, but dont under estimate bryop.

[Pjanssen]

This battle is far from over. While the areas that I treated all remain bryopsis free, it is showing up in other places. Because it was hidden by the anemone, I did not notice this patch before. How do I treat it when it is on the tube of my tube anemone? Seems too delicate to try to pull off, defiantly don't won't to pour peroxide on it.

IMG_3903 by Penny, on Flickr

Also, I seem to have a new unrelated issue and I don't know what it is

IMG_3907 by Penny, on Flickr

[brandon429]

I love challenges that do not give up easily, and your documentation of these variables is just what 1000 readers w face in time that see this thread linked in our big attack threads.

 

just brainstorming initially, but ive never seen algae attach to a soft body other than a leather coral I once saw, that sheddable tunic layer apparently was substrate-enough and the poster had a few strands shooting right out the top actually attached.

 

but on yours, it will be the first anemone attachment ever, they don't shed like sinularias do, and as such their immune cells are typically warring/fending off external riders...so, is there any way to verify if all that is anchored to his scrapable substrate? if its on the anem and that's the first we've seen, no surprise. nature wows all the time just wondering that detail on locus of plant anchors

 

if it reveals to be truly hosting that bry, my next step would be to ensure the rest of the tank is cleared, and not worry too much about this guy until that is done, and then possible set up a place to work on him externally. even a creative isolation/jail for misbehaving anems like a freshwater fish breeding chamber could keep that anem and his hitchhikers fairly isolated for other works, so he doesn't cast plant portions out to the cleaned tank, and he can be kept in the current system. if that shot above is the detail attached to his flesh and not the tank wall ima be amazed.

[Pjanssen]

Uhm...What? (Remember, middle school science!) If it's just on the tube (I'm assuming that's what you mean by scriptable substrate?), you're saying I can scrape/cut/remove the bryop? But the anemone might actually be hosting it in which case we don't know what to do other than isolate and come up with a plan later?

[Pjanssen]

And do you know what the brown fuzzies are in the second pic?

[brandon429]

I had trouble knowing if those were sep pics, or one was the closeup of the anem lol!

 

google bryozoans to see if you agree that's what those are, I do think those little fuzzies are what santamonica here likes to cut and paste constantly as "periphyton" those are just little hitchhikers, non plants, that live on rocks in the wild and make them look all fuzzy like your tank when we see them in the ocean in natural settings. I think physical removal is best option with them, and some filefish eat em too. periphyton includes those, plants, and many other benthic deposited creatures.

 

 

on that anem, if they are truly on the tube which is part of his body, and not on the hard rock surface down below, we'll have to just tread new ground on how to fix that ive truly never seen it before on that anem. I was thinking the anem is attached to the rock, and so is all the algae (where it could be force removed) but the anemone is squat down on top of that anchored algae making it look like its attached to the anemone. I wouldn't scrape on its body or tube agreed, and peroxide is hard on them, that part may leave us searching for options but the greater system reset should still be attainable.

 

 

wherever those bryozoans are growing ive seen people just scrape them off, hand guide them back out and they stop eventually.

 

I saw this similar thread the other day, for comparisons

http://reef2reef.com/threads/algae-id-help.248981/#post-2927608