Nocturnal pico? Wtf? Read on for this interesting new project!

[Robbip]

Alright- I want to make a new pico.. I've been browsing around here and (no offense to many) but a lot of the picos here all look very similar. I want to make one that REALLY stands out. At first I thought I'd go for the 'tidal waves' approach and try my luck with that, but it seemed too complex for my tastes. Plus, I have a really low budget for reefkeeping (not highest of priorities) and hence would go for the less expensive stuff...

 

So, I figured... why not make a "black" pico? Basically, it would be kept in a state of darkness. It would be all nocturnal animals. I'd also save a bundle on lighting lol.

 

So what would it be? A small closed-top container, preferably around 1 gallon or so. Less would be better. Water agitation would probably be a nano HOB filter (from Red Sea). The top would reduce evaporation. Assuming this container isn't circular, EVERYTHING except 1 (small) section would be painted black to ensure darkness. This one unpainted site would be for viewing (explained later on.) Dark brown or black sand and about 2+ lbs of LR would be inside.

 

How would I view inhabitants? I'd get a small fully-submersible red LED light (sell for 9.99CA at Big Als- forget name + brand atm) and have it for viewing. Apparantly, a lot of animals can't see red and to them they'd be seeing black while I'd be seeing red. This light would be on 24/7. It would encourage nocturnal animals to roam around and would be very interesting to watch what happens in our larger nanos during the night.

 

What about the inhabitants? This is a primary reason I'm posting this to you guys and gals I need suggestions of what to keep in there. I'm assuming corals and polyps are a nono, although if small non-photosynthetic ones exist that's be pretty neat. Fish are also a nono. Mobile inverts are also still in question- I'd prefer deeper-water stuff or nocturnal stuff.

 

So- how does this sound? Is it viable? Also- the stock is still in question! PLEASE give me suggestions for this project!

 

Thanks much in advance

/Rob

[chazertis]

i think unless ur planning on getting deep sea creatures, most livestock, including nocturnal ones, would get messed up if it was dark all the time.

[tinyreef]

you could still have corals, just og for the non-photosythetic type or keep those on the topside.

 

but i disagree with you, many/most reef tanks are nocturnal tanks (partly anyways). most people just don't take notice of it. the underside of the rocks are just as active/interesting as the topside. sometimes moreso, although activity is probably at a higher level than the dark zones on average.

 

the sponges, tunicates, crustaceans, worms, etc. (most cryptic environment livestock) expand or are more active at night than during the day, when we usually view our tanks. often our setups/aquascaping preclude viewing into the rocks and darkened areas (this was a critical change i did in my recent setup, more viewing crevices/caves for the cryptic zones).

 

the balance of a daylit topside and a darkened underside will balance out the ecosystem. you could run one-type but you'd eventually end up with a skewed/malfunctioning ecosystem imo.

 

blood shrimp, crabs, worms, or most inverts in general are more nocturnal than vertebrates. so you might want to try these. i'm not sure how entertaining these guy would be in a monochromatic environment though.

[Argent]

I know my peppermints are way more active after hours than when the lights are on - but I think like most living things they'll still need a light cycle to an extent (unless as stated you build a deep water tank which blows the whole low-budget out the window)

[fewskillz]

I think you'll still want a light cycle, just use some low-light blue LEDs.

[Qckwzrd]

To be honest I kinda like the idea of a "dark pico/nano" tank. Like everyone is saying you would still need a full cycle of light and darkness. They would need a time to rest. I would like to start something like that myself. How I would do it is use an AGA 2.5 or 5 gallon tank (something with some height would be good I have a tank thats about 30"H 6"W 6"L) I would stock it with small bubble corals, yellow sun corals, different feather dusters, gorgonians, low light mushrooms and maybe a pistol shrimp and watchman goby. All the livestock prefer the nite life and should be fed well. I would keep the day time lights on during the night time nothing special some t-5's or regular flo. and at nite some actinic blues maybe or red LEDS. filtration and other things havent been worked out yet....anything wrong so far?

[Robbip]

Well, ok, this deepwater thing has got me curious... what would differ from a deepwater setup rather than a usual setup? Cooler water? More interestingly, what livestock would I have in it?

 

But OK back on topic... I'm thinking of changing my setup a bit.. instead of trying to keep the tank perma-dark to the inhabitants, I'm going to have a full 10hour day cycle (during my day) but with a very weak light, so the tank is still fairly "dark" in certain respects.. it'll make it seem like a perma-underhang or something, with just a little bit of light. As for livestock, I still have no clue what to do... although some filter feeding animals seem pretty cool.. any further comments/suggestions?

 

/Rob

[Robbip]

~bump?

[SanDiegoIllini]

I think you'll still want a light cycle, just use some low-light blue LEDs.

 

Ditto this, the 'nocturnal' animals definitely NEED a light cycle, otherwise they will get messed up.

 

If you want to keep with the theme of your original idea though, make this slight modification. Use a few blue LED or something bright enough for daylight, but run the light maybe 2am-10am or whatever is opposite of what you want your 'viewing time' to be. (In my 50 gal, my main photoperiod is ~1pm-10pm). You still have to buy *something* to serve as your 'daylight' however, you can still save some good money by not having to provide full spectrum/wattage to grow photosynthetic corals. Just make sure you don't get something that will promote too much algae growth. Also I would use more bulbs/wattage for the 'daylight' than the 'night time'. Although for you the night time is the 'featured' light, I wouldn't count on a red LED or bulb exactly lining up with the spectral blind spot you are referring to. So just to be sure, I'd have the overall intensity of the red light less than that of the blue or daylight, so your creatures would get the picture.

 

Also, rather than have, for example, 3 red LED's at the top of the tank, maybe you want to consider mounting 1 LED on the top of the tank and one from each side? Or the rear bottom corners (for a cleaner external appearance). Since your red light is under the presumption that the animals don't need it, maybe you can illuminate the entire environment in a unique manner that us 'daylight' tanks cant when we're restricted to having the light penetrate from the top (to not throw off our diurnal inhabitant's equalibria)

[Robbip]

Hmm sounds good... several LEDs = good... my question is, is it 100% true that most animals can't see red?

[ReefApprentice]

Lol

do u live in a box?

the tank will get light during the day from ambient light.

not that different than 20 feet or so down

[Qckwzrd]

Lol

do u live in a box?

the tank will get light during the day from ambient light.

not that different than 20 feet or so down

 

I dont think Ambient light would do much of anything, I dont think its a factor at all in this situation.

 

As far as the Red light I have no clue about animals being able to see/not see with them. I wouldnt even stock the tank with any fish. And if you insisted on a fish I would do a shrimp goby with a pistol shrimp. Or just shrimp(s) (mantis maybe) and crabs. A reef tank is more about the corals and less about the fish, so stocking fish isnt a real priority. What size would you do? If it was up to me I would go for the tall tank for the gorgonias (have them on a ledge of live rock) and have the sun and bubble corals on the bottom away from the gorgonia.

 

Maybe you should start putting this idea into play with a design for a tank...I would like to see that.

[Open]

im thinking this would b really expencive, but if it works out..

[Robbip]

Well, in all fairness, I'm trying to keep this as inexpensive as possible... not trying to cut corners or anything, but I just don't got too much money for bigger projects.

 

Regarding LEDs- they don't give off much light (watts wise) and I think are crucial in this tank idea. I can go 2 routes with them

 

1) Reverse photoperiod idea- kee the tank dark and lit with 'red' during day (tank mostly painted black of course to prevent outside light from leaking in) and then lit up with blue LEDs for a daytime during my nightime hours. I'd keep the red's on 24/7 but during night would add in the blues just so the animals get the idea that "it's daytime now".

 

2) The 'perma-overhang' one, where I basically just keep the tank dimly lit during the day and then (normally) dark at night. This would allow the more cryptic animals to come out, esp. the ones who usually hide to bright lights. I'd probably keep the tank lit with reds 24/7 and the ambient light during my day would suggest to the animals when it's day and nighttime.

 

I can mess around with the lighting direction/style later on... but I guarantee it'll be nice looking

 

Regarding stocking- I'd try to get animals that are (obviously) more active during dawn/dusk/night. I'd also encourage the growth of stuff like bristles and other various worms just to further suit the theme of 'darkness'. Corals I originally didn't want to add but if there are any cheap non-photosynthetic corals out there than Ill consider them. Originally I wanted to stock this with only filter feeders but that wouldn't really fit the theme (aren't filter feeders feeding on the photosynthetic plankton/phytoplankton that requires light?). As for fish- if I don't get any nice corals or inverts than a little centrepiece fish will be OK (some sort of goby?)

 

Regarding the tank- whatever is small and cheap. I wanna keep it between 0.5-1 gallon (a true pico lol)

Regarding water circulation- the nano HOB filter should be suffice for such a small water amount.

Regarding water filtration- LR! And, I'm going to get some nice dark sand or gravel that looks neato and fits the theme well.

 

I'm honestly not expecting algae problems (unless there's algae that requires little-to-none light to grow), and hence am probably not gonna have much of a cleanupcrew. Anyways, some questions for y'all to help me out with... (all help appreciated)

 

1) Assuming the coral idea fails and I'm gonna get a fish- what's a teeny fish that would be OK in such a small amount of water and that would kind of 'fit' my theme? (i.e. no neon pink.. preferably something darker)

2) Can anyone name me some COMMON, INEXPENSIVE non-photosynthetic corals? Or, better yet, provide me with their caresheets?

3) Do you think a cleanup crew is worth it? If so, what should I get (assume: .5 gallons of water)

4) Which LED lighting idea is better- (1) or (2)? (refer above)

5) Just for the sake of aesthetics- does anyone got any neat-o ideas regarding lighting/setup/whatever that would make this tank stand out?

 

Thanks a bunch guys! The faster I do this research the faster I get set up!

/Rob

[Robbip]

~Bump?

 

Still debating over which tank to use... needs to be 0.5-1 gallon and as inexpensive as possible (and not be circular.) Ideas?

 

/Rob

[FryedFish]

I can help you with #2, but for number #1 thats a tottal no!

 

Personally, I don't really like your idea, I understand your trying to save money but this tank dosn't sound very intresting, maybe you should think about it (no offense, but do you really want a box of water with nothing in it?)

 

Non-photo can be a little difficult to feed, you diffenitly will have red algea problems! (remeber you DO have to feed these corals, which will require LOADS of waterchanges/ slack space)

 

"easier" corals:

 

-Scleronephthya

 

-Tree Sponge

 

-Chili coral

 

sorry for my "blunt" opinon

[shao-lin nano]

Arent you just setting up a regular tank?

 

I mean if I watch my tank at night with a red light it's the same thing you're saying. You still need all the equipment of a regular reef tank minus the lighting depending on what you keep.

 

I'm going to just watch my tank at night and call it nocturnal.

[Robbip]

@Shao-lin nano: Yeah pretty much... a normal tank minus the expensive lights... focus more on the mobile livestock (i.e. inverts) rather than the stationary stuff (i.e. corals).. so, it's probably going to be a bit more 'overstocked' than a normal reef tank when it comes down to inverts and maybe even fish.

 

@FryedFish: It's all good. I guess that's just your opinion. I've always been fascinated by nocturnal animals just because they're doing their shananigans while we sleep and vice versa. Mind you, I'm not going to have FULLY nocturnal animals in there, but by keeping the tank dimly lit, I can reduce algae problems while encouraging 'shyer' animals to come out and frolic.

 

I have been looking over some animal options and I noticed the 'reef lobsters'- they get fairly large, and are primarily nocturnal scavengers.. they'd make a decent centrepiece with them crawling about and stuff. Or I could get some other inverts- any ideas? Larger is better!

 

So yea- all help is still needed! More answers would be greatly appreciated!

/Rob

[Poker_Fish777]

aga has their 1gal betta bowfront tank for like $15 at walmart

 

i like the idea of the overhang w/ sponges

[travisurfer]

you can uses the led's from the 1.5g tetra tank for weak lighting

[Robbip]

Alright, seems the overhang idea is a bit better than the reverse photoperiod one.

 

@Travis- what 1.5g tetra tank?

 

@Poker- I read that sponges are really hard to keep? Is that true? Also, where do I buy them?

 

@Any aquascaping experts- How can I create a 'rocky overhang'? Most LR doesn't come in shapes even remotely close to an "overhang".. any ideas?

[Poker_Fish777]

well they just require a ton of care. id go with a slightly larger than 1 gal for this setup especially if u gonna have a good amount of LR.

 

w/ sponges u need to have a single indirect flow. since they feed by drawing water in their pores and excreting them out in usually the direction of current or flow.

 

they digest the organisms in the water column. so filter or supplemental feedings of plankton like foods is required.

 

the water quality needs to perfect as well so that can take some work w/ the amount of feedings.

 

than of course they cannot be exposed to air.

 

so thats the basic rundown i think, i hope this helps cus i was actually thinking of starting up a 2.5sponge pico.

 

 

as for the LR situation u can glue a bunch of pieces together to form an overhang structure

[Robbip]

Could I use that epoxy stuff meant for gluing LR pieces?

p.s. bump

[Poker_Fish777]

yup

[supahtim]

you want inexpensive lighting? i have inexpensive lighting over my coffee pot. $10 for the bulb, $10 for the fixture. works great for the corals i have in there now. just an idea...

 

for the rock, just take a bigger peice, smash it, then create your own design with the smaller chunks.

 

Tim