Grafting as it pretains to coral propagation

[jeremai]

On the side though, marine biologists really need to learn how to spell D-N-A.

 

IMO coral scientists need to take experiments to the next level in terms of molecular biology; whenever I read a paper I feel like I'm back in my 40-year-old high school bio lab with jars of specimens and analog balances with only methylene blue at my disposal...

 

Better yet, I say they start a contest. Have all the high school and college kids in America team off and work to solve all the problems we've set up in this thread. Then, pretend to have a scholarship as a prize, only to yank it at the last minute due to 'contractual obligations'.

[MrAnderson]

Seriously, I don't get the aversion to molecular techniques that these guys have. It's what the field needs. ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE at this point.

 

Or, if they actually do something, it's a primitive chromatography experiment and the way they talk about it, it's like they cloned a dog.

 

My rant is over. Sorry.

[Six]

My rant is over. Sorry.

Thank God. I didn't understand half of it. Yes, I have an inferiority complex.

 

I dunno how many posts away someone asked why the guy doesnt just let the coral grow together after being placed further away, well I would imagine he wants results ASAP. The Lordhowensis fad is almost over, you gotta hurry up to jump on the bandwagon, or at least tie your little cart to it and bang your drum.

 

Ha. I crack myself up.

[jeremai]

I dunno how many posts away someone asked why the guy doesnt just let the coral grow together after being placed further away...

 

Well... would it? Work, I mean?

[MrAnderson]

Thank God. I didn't understand half of it.

 

How come every time a thread gets scientific people get all annoyed? It happens every time, even if you stick to Bio 100 stuff like most of this conversation. Keeping reefs is a biology thing, and it always amazes me.

[Biotoper]

On the side though, marine biologists really need to learn how to spell D-N-A.

 

IMO coral scientists need to take experiments to the next level in terms of molecular biology; whenever I read a paper I feel like I'm back in my 40-year-old high school bio lab with jars of specimens and analog balances with only methylene blue at my disposal...

 

Yeah, what is up with that? The fact is most evolutionary biologists just don't work with marine organisms, focusing on terrestrial vertebrates (some work on marine fish and mammals but IMEX pretty few), plants, insects, nematodes, yeast.... There appears to be still a lot of basic molecular genetic work to be done on anthozoa before we get things like species-level phylogenies. I believe NIH is funding an evodevo project to sequence the genome of Hydra magnipapillata (freshwater anemone), which might increase interest in other anthozoa.

 

Good point about the histocompatibility of interspecific fusing of coeloenchyme (sp?). I'm not familiar with this subject enough to say much, but it appears to me that it has not been studied enough in colonial marine invertebrates like sponges, hydroids, coral, etc. to really say what is possible.

 

On introducing captive-propagated organisms into the wild, even from a qualified program, my final point was just that one needs to be careful about not introducing non-native genotypes or non-native hitchhikers. Propogation thru artificial reefs such as rock piles or tiles to serve as additional polyp settlement substrate seem the safest and cheapest method, rather than using aquaria, although if species are threatened by pollution/ocean warming/predators/pathogens that can't be excluded/etc. then aquarium propogation becomes more necessary.

 

Ryan

[MrAnderson]

There appears to be still a lot of basic molecular genetic work to be done on anthozoa before we get things like species-level phylogenies.

 

It's actually really disappointing. Not only how little work has been done in this area, but also how little enthusiasm there is for it. I'm not saying that every anthozoan needs to be sequenced, but ferchrissakes a stereomicroscope only gets you so far.

[Six]

No Mr A. I just got bored with your rant. JK

 

 

Perhaps I get bored with long threads. It's believable. I get bored easily.

[jeremai]

How come every time a thread gets scientific people get all annoyed? It happens every time, even if you stick to Bio 100 stuff like most of this conversation. Keeping reefs is a biology thing, and it always amazes me.

 

I don't know about everyone else here, but I went to high school in California. Now, we may have dissected frogs and fetal pigs, but there was never any talk of molecular sequencing or genetic splicing. Everything was kept at the macro level.

 

But anyway, is anyone going to help with my question? If two corals are placed apart and left to grow toward eachother, would they eventually 'get used' to one another chemically, and make a fused colony? It seems like this may have more interest to most of the people on this site than the genetic possibilities.

[supernip]

How come every time a thread gets scientific people get all annoyed? It happens every time, even if you stick to Bio 100 stuff like most of this conversation. Keeping reefs is a biology thing, and it always amazes me.

 

I dunno mrA, I think people enjoy it or they wouldn't keep coming back. But some of it is still over our head though

[MrAnderson]

I don't know about everyone else here, but I went to high school in California. Now, we may have dissected frogs and fetal pigs, but there was never any talk of molecular sequencing or genetic splicing. Everything was kept at the macro level.

 

But anyway, is anyone going to help with my question? If two corals are placed apart and left to grow toward eachother, would they eventually 'get used' to one another chemically, and make a fused colony? It seems like this may have more interest to most of the people on this site than the genetic possibilities.

 

I learned cell division in high school - that's all you need to know for this conversation, and every big word is in the glossary of my college General Biology text from 1994. It's not like I went into the biophysics of cellular cohesion, even though it's relevant.

 

Anyhow, if you could clarify your question maybe someone could answer it. Do you mean different families, genera or species of coral? Do you mean identical species? Do you mean 2 different frags of the same coral? Is your question whether you need to open the tissue?

 

No, no, no, maybe, probably and i don't know.

 

In the end it's probably empirical < dammit! big word > ummm translation: you'd have to try out each combination to find out if each specific possibility would work.

 

Generally, growing corals "bicker" with each other over space; the reef gets crowded, and tolerating your neighbor doesn't usually entail becoming a single physical colony.

 

Sorry for wanting to use be concise by using technical words. I know not everybody minds (onthefly, millerlite and rest of the scientists). The phenomenon we're discussing, tissue grafts, is very complex biologically. What's wrong with checking a dictionary when you don't know a word, rather than discouraging someone from using words you don't know?

[jeremai]

Anyhow, if you could clarify your question maybe someone could answer it. Do you mean different families, genera or species of coral? Do you mean identical species? Do you mean 2 different frags of the same coral? Is your question whether you need to open the tissue?

 

No, no, no, maybe, probably and i don't know.

 

In the end it's probably empirical < dammit! big word > ummm translation: you'd have to try out each combination to find out if each specific possibility would work.

 

Generally, growing corals "bicker" with each other over space; the reef gets crowded, and tolerating your neighbor doesn't usually entail becoming a single physical colony.

 

Sorry for wanting to use be concise by using technical words. I know not everybody minds (onthefly, millerlite and rest of the scientists). The phenomenon we're discussing, tissue grafts, is very complex biologically. What's wrong with checking a dictionary when you don't know a word, rather than discouraging someone from using words you don't know?

 

Ugh. Thank you for calling me an idiot. Let's recap. You use large words, but tend not to think logically - I was, of course, referring to the Faviid rock with the four different colonies growing on it... the one mentioned in this thread. There is no logical reason for me to be asking about anything else. Look at that colony, and tell me if it is possible, probable, or impossible to recreate that in a given aquaria.

 

READ THE THREAD - again, if need be, because I used the word 'empirical' myself a couple pages back.

 

I said I didn't learn this type of science in high school, not that I don't know it now. I follow what you guys are saying perfectly well, I'm just trying to get you to realize why other people don't. It's called personal displacement <dammit! big words> umm... translation: putting yourself in someone else's shoes. The personal attack was completely unwarranted.

[MrAnderson]

Wow sorry I'm not sure how you thought it was an attack (you should come by the lounge sometime, you'll see attacks), and I wasn't calling you an idiot, you busted out some nice plant genetics back there...

 

But take it how you'd like really I don't care. You're doing better than me with the insults so I don't feel too bad...

 

Whatever, you can only dumb down a converstion like this so much, there are 13 year-olds on here and no matter how you put it tissue grafts are above their heads.

[jeremai]

We're all entitled to rants, eh? It was the empirical thing that really toasted my noggin

 

Sorry, just woke up, blame the Wheaties. Anyone remember where the topic was?

[MrAnderson]

I think the thread's over

 

At least that's what I got from Six's post above...

I get bored with long threads

[Caesar777]

MrA - Because science is the devil.

 

[tinyreef]

MrA - Because science is the devil.

because science scare us.

the monolith! ooo, aahh!

[Six]

[tinyreef]

we're ridiculing mr.a and his propensity for geek-speak.

 

hey, that don't count, i'm asian. i gotta be verbose. it makes up for the R's and L's we slur.

[MrAnderson]

you guys are a drag

 

the advanced topics forum is D-E-D

[tinyreef]

white man makes magic box speak. baaaad voodoo, very bad.

 

jobu no like white man "science magic". jobu no like you!

[Caesar777]

MrA, we genuinely appreciate reading the thread--we just like giving you a hard time, cos you're a nerd.

 

Honestly, I'm fascinated (and a teensy bit disgusted, but I feel that way about a lot of things) by this whole topic. Continue!

[Six]

It's my darn thread, I can say I'm bored if I want to.

 

I didn't think what I said was offensive anywho. Bored can mean it's under my head, not over it.....

 

I have more to say but I'll listen to my Disney upbringing and "If I don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." ~ Thumper

[MrAnderson]

It's my darn thread, I can say I'm bored if I want to.

 

I didn't think what I said was offensive anywho. Bored can mean it's under my head, not over it.....

 

I have more to say but I'll listen to my Disney upbringing and "If I don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." ~ Thumper

 

I'm sorry. I'm not good at adding tons of smiley faces and j/ks in my posts, and I hate walking on eggshells and qualifying everything with pre-defensive "i'm not trying to say blah", so I think some a y'all are taking what I write the wrong way.

 

Rereading my posts, I can't understand why Six thought I took any offense, had no right to be bored, or whatever her fur is up about. I don't understand what motivated the above post at all.

 

Nor do I think anyone here is stupid or an idiot. As a matter of fact, I've been fairly impressed with a lot of the posts in this thread, from pretty much everyone: jeremai, six, tiny, c, biotoper, nip, etc. sorry if I missed anyone. Furthermore, I don't think it's over anyone's head if they just give it some thought and maybe google one or two terms (except for the real youngins) and it's my opinion that the reluctance to talk shop is a reluctance to be too geeky.

 

Also, I'm not going to go over every one of my posts and explain how what I wrote can be read without antagonism, but as I said, read the rohrschach blot as you'd like. Because I leave out emoticons I think people might be adding in their own and jumping to conclusions.

 

So in the end Six I'll just dip outta this thread, sorry sorry sorry so sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll keep the shop talk in the shop.

[tinyreef]

i'd rather you keep talking shop. this is the advanced forum. i didn't understand many of the terms you used but i'd still want to hear them instead of someone saying "whachamacallsit".

 

and i think six would too. i think she was only noting the tech talk was getting thick, which it was but that's the direction it was going. i think it was a comment, nothing more. caesar and i, in turn were just cracking jokes and faking farts. you were faking right, c?

 

but your post noting six's "bored comment" could've been taken in the wrong way. frankly, i kinda thought it was a snipe. a little one maybe (so i sniped a little back ), but i didn't think it was a full-frontal assault. the medium is a very difficult one to gauge (as you and i both personally know from firsthand combat).

 

as an aside: i'm happy we have emoticons. i wish we had more actually. a small pic is sometimes worth a 1000-words and maybe avoid misunderstandings.