XsploveReefin Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Anyone yousing them or built them.. I am Starting on my 2 gallon surge device for my 18 gallon reef which will be holding LPS SPS and softies. I will post my Pics and plans if i can get autocad to work. Any comments welcome? Link to comment
Rocket_155 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 i was using one on my 24G and I think i made it abit to strong. They add a great effect to the tank. If you place the output near to surface of the water it'll create a nice wave action. Also if you make ti too strong you'll have alot of bubbles coming in from the chruning water. Link to comment
XsploveReefin Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 I have got it finished it will be up and running by Friday so wish me luck. Link to comment
Crimper Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Good Luck, Id like to see how exactly you make one of this, do send pics! Link to comment
Snootleather Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Did you ever get that surge device up and running? Pics & plans? Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hey X, I built a tiny Carlson type surge into the hood of my 5 gallon Jebo tank. It's kind of like an eclipse in that it's got an overhead filtration compartment. It surges about 16 oz. every 13 seconds. It's not a huge amount, but does vary the flow. -Rogue Link to comment
deacon hemp Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Do you have any pics of that surge roguecorps i would be very interested in seting up a surge for my next tank?I just seen my first big surge setup on the weekend and i don't know what a small one looks like? Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hey Deacon, It's pretty hard to see in the pic but it's basically a "J" shaped tube that resists siphon until the compartment is filled, then quickly flushes. It is a little difficult to build and adjust when the volume is so small and there is hardly any drop. More info HERE. -R Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Or something like this on a much smaller scale. hth! -Rogue Link to comment
tinyreef Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 that U-tube design is pretty neat. i've read about carlson's device and borneman's(?) flush device too but that U-tube seems pretty simple and effective. another option is to use an auto-top off (with tank water tho, of course). let a drain constantly pour out of the tank into a bucket holding the return pump/surge. (the rate of drain will determine the frequency of the wave/surge). the mechanism is basically the auto-top off but using the tank's own water as the 'makeup'. the trick would be to set the auto-top off switch in a sump or refugium that would not react as quickly or be as sensitive (i.e. timed/measured flow) to the returned water volume. or have the switch where the surface area is greatly different than the display tank where the return/surge is in order to create a level-sensitive (i.e. same overall volume but a condensed area in the display tank). Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 That's an interesting idea Tiny-Reef. I've never thought of using a float switch for a surge. The problem with Carlson type surges are a bit of noise and bubbles as the tube starts siphon. These problems can be minimized and I think the big benefit is that I can get varied flow with only one pump on my whole system and no moving parts. Here's another pic of a growout system that a friend and I put together for him. I think it's pretty cool... Dual 10 gallon surges that provide an infinitely random wave pattern to 3 prop tanks. This can be done with one or two pumps. -R Link to comment
deacon hemp Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Thanks alot rogue your info helped a lot seems complicated on diagram but im sure i could rig one up.also thanks tinyreef too for the other style with the topp off switch. Link to comment
Deimos Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 This is a bad thread...you guys are giving me way too many ideas...lol. I wonder if I could turn an old AC filter that I've got into one of these little guys for my 10.....hmmmmm... Great thread guys... Link to comment
Mnesarchus Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I fooled around with a 250ml Surge device for my 10g a while back, never really finished it. Thanks for reminding me! Link to comment
skeletor Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 yep, I agree, this is a bad thread.... as soon as I finish that kalk reactor for my 20 I've got to do a surge device.... I was thinking of just using a squid, but I like the wave maker ideas... Link to comment
Deimos Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Okay...so I'm going to use my old AC 150 "shell" (motor burnt out) for the surge device...what size pump should I use? Too large and I'm obviously going to have too frequent surges...too small and I'll burn the damn thing out from too much backpressure. I was thinking of using a Maxijet in the 100 gph range...plumbing the fill line with flexible tubing (I'd have about a 1.5-2' head (think I need the next size up Maxi??)) and then building the U-tube and drop with 1" PVC. (that should fit out the old hole in the "bucket" where the motor used to be) sealed with Aquarium grade silicone? or can I use plumber's putty? What do you guys think? Should work, right? Any feedback would be great! Thanks.. Link to comment
BIGBOB Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I recently built a surge tank on my 50 reef. It turnes out very successful. So, I decided to build an additional one on my 14 gallon, it is the same thing, yet on a smaller scale. However, when it is first filled it surges the first time, but when it starts to fill back up for the second time, it just continually siphenes rather than "surging". What are some common causes for this. I have a hole drilled right above the minimum water line in the main tank, and thats it for air holes. Do you think I should drill one in the part of the pipe that is in the actual bucket as well. ibeleive what may be happening is that the first time it siphens, no air gets into the tube to break the siphen. What do you think? Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Hey BigBob, The difficulty with Carlson type surges is that each part reacts to the other. I'd try to run it without any holes for siphon break initially, then only do this if it runs too loud. Yeah, your siphon isn't completely breaking then continuing siphon at the same rate as your pump is filling the surge tank. The first thing to try is to angle the intake end of the J-tube. This'll help air into the tube when the water level drops low enough. Additionally other factors like depth of the surge outlet effects the fill height of the surge tank, outlet of the fill pump can create current that effects the surge timing, siphon break holes can oversiphon so that the surge never occurs, and pump speed needs to be high enough to fill faster than the J-tube draining before siphoning completely... Lots to think of but it's not so complicated... As long as the drop is more than a few inches it shouldn't be too difficult. hth! -Rogue Link to comment
BIGBOB Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Thanks Rogue. What I ended up doing was drilling an air hole right at the top of the J, and running tubing from that hole down to the bottom of the surge, as seen in the diagram above. It works fine now, although a little slow w/ an interval of 110 seconds. Link to comment
wetworx101 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Are there any real advantages to having one of these surge container systems over just a regular SCWD or wave timer? Link to comment
harbingerofthefish Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 ditto wetworxs' question. I would use a SCWD, but seeing how I want it out of the tank and plumbing gets a little tricky, a surge tank would be easier to do. Link to comment
Deimos Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 The main advantage of a surge device that is immediately apparent to me is that it works well for those of us who didn't have the forethought to plumb our nanos for use with an externally mounted scwd or wavemaker of other sorts. Sure..a SCWD plumbed externally with large-bore outputs on both ends of the tank would probably be better..but if you're like me and used a stock 10 gallon that isn't drilled..plumbing the SCWD in the tank would produce a LOT of clutter. With the surge device you get a nice SURGE vs. just chaotic flow. (as with a rotating PH of some sorts) Just my thoughts on the subject.... Link to comment
RogueCorps Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by wetworx101 Are there any real advantages to having one of these surge container systems over just a regular SCWD or wave timer? The thing that I really like about Carlson type surge tanks is that there are no moving parts at all, and because of this they are extremely reliable once set up. The above farm system can be run with one single pump, split at a "T" to fill both surge tanks at the same rate or varied rate, and they will always spill in non-repeating intervals. The trade off is some noise and bubbles, but depending on the system it can be a great way to go. Also depending on the size and rate of the surge you can sometimes use a very modest pump and let the surge make strong turbulance but less frequently. Point being that you can get a whole lot of surge with very little equiptment and energy cost. JMO -Rogue Link to comment
cal3v Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Would there be too many bubbles with this sort of system for my 20g? I have some sand in there and don't want it to blow around. I was thinking maybe a 1-2 gallon surge, not sure though. Any recommendations would be appreciated. I might be able to take out 3 powerheads if the flow is strong enough but not too strong. Link to comment
cal3v Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Oh and max might about the tank, maybe a foot at most, so I am not sure if it would work all that well for providing good enough flow. Link to comment
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