Hair algae

[rbaby]

I have a lawnmower blenny...a dwarf sea hare and extra large turbos as well as mexican turbos and you know what? None of them will touch it =T...

[DitchPlains]

Scrubbed the rock changed out about 25g of watter, and guess what its growing back. not as rampant, but justthe same. My good friend who sells corals said to get a sea hair too, and to use a phosban reactor, which I thought of already, and will do in time.

 

so thats where I am at.

 

oh I redirected some of my pumps and stopped the diatoms on the sand wiht more flow.

 

thanks

Dave

[rbaby]

My last resort is borrowing my friend's lettuce nudi that's starving in his tank due to lack of hairy algae ...

 

I will probably donate my sea hare if it doesn't do work to Dennis' setup--he says he likes to live life on the edge ...but if it crashes his tank I'm SO not liable

[lhooq]

What type of lighting are you using? PC, Halide? How much (wattage)of actinic lightning? You may have too much blue light in your spectrum. How is circulation/surface agitation?

 

Of course, you can also try adding a good skimmer...

 

Originally posted by DitchPlains

Paramters, been seeing 0-.05 nitrates and nitrites. ph is 8.2-8.4, salinity is 1.025 (oceanic) this is a concern as I think the salt may have high phosphates in it. Straight RO water, I just changed my filters, not the membrane after 6 months, with new carbon block, and sediment filters. I can't check for phosphates as I dont have that test kit yet, sadly, I cant find someone locally who has a Salifert or Lamonte one.

 

thanks

Dave

[rbaby]

From what I've read, algae doesn't feed on blue lighting--or they don't really rely on it. They're more dependent on red/yellow which is why the lower the rating of the bulb the higher the tendency for algae would be.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

ASTREA SNAILS. They will eat the shiat out of it.

SO will MEXICAN turbo snails and margarita turbo snails.

Lettuce nudi branchs, sea hare ( NOT DWARVES they are stricktly detriovores ( is that the correc t wording or spelling? LOL!) ).

Lawn mower blennys suck plain and simple, that was a name thought up to sell them period.

 

Rabbit fish will eat it, hog fish will eat it and aptasia,

yellow tangs depending on the fish its self of course.

 

blue legged hermit crabs, red legged hermit crabs, scarlet hermit crabs. some emerald crabs will eat it, there are a myriad of fish, and invets that love hair algae.

 

 

BTW old tank syndrome with DBS is a myth, nothin gmore than bad husbandry causes this suposed OTS.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

i think i may have ran a PM to some one else I was repsonding to together with this post in my head or somthing? LOL!

BUT DBS going bad IMO is our fault.

 

 

"In the natural environment, marine sediments act as a nutrient sink (NO3 and PO4 included). No different in an aquarium, only you don't have a bottomless layer of anaerobic sediments to endlessly process the material. Eventually, the sink will fill up and begin to leach nutrient back into the system."

 

If this is true than the same would be true only MUCH faster for a SBS system, but yet it is not.

 

Lack of proper sand sifters, stirrers, letting detrius build up with out removing it,Not enough current to keep it a float long enough to make it through the filtration all cause this so I still dont see where its a random ocurring event, hence its a myth.

If the sink fills up your simply adding to much bioload with a proper

clean up crew or maintenance.

 

 

 

Tha majority of all DBS keeper swill tel you they have never had a problem with it. (UNLESS you allow it to collect uneaten food stufs, detreius build up, and dont have a proper clean up crew taylored to a dbs in place.)

 

BLue light,

Could'nt agree more with onthefly.

Thats more or less my reasoning for aksing them to do a search.

aswell as posting what I did about new techniuqes.

[dzhuo]

(UNLESS you allow it to collect uneaten food stufs, detreius build up, and dont have a proper clean up crew taylored to a dbs in place.)

 

it's not because you allow debris to collect, it's because you CAN NEVER do a 100% removal. do you not get that? you can put all the sand sifters, stirrers, cleaning crew you want in any tank of any size, and you can have the biggest, baddest skimmer with the largest possible fuge, but you still can't remove every waste either you, or the fish or the bateria generate in a close system. you will be happy to have a 99.99999% removal of waste, that 0.000001% still build up over time and the sand bed is the most likely place that this 0.000001% end up. this is inevitable in a close system. it happens faster in some tank and slower in others. i have a sand bed myself and i know what the consequence is of having one. i hope you do.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

OMG you are thick headed, and will obviously make anything read the way you want it to.

That little bit left over gets syhponed out ya' goon! LOL! ( I am kiding not flaming)

Most people would have included that thought in with "Maintenance".

BTW I have a DBS tank, a SBS tank, and three deep aragonite bed tanks.

Been reefing for more than 15 years total.

I am in no way new to this hobby thats for sure.

EXPERIENCE is the teacher not books. Books and forums are places for advice. All based on others experiences and predetermined guidlines set by others with experience for you to incorporate in with your own regimen to make it work for you.

[dzhuo]

OMG you are thick headed

 

what does that mean? i am not a native english speaker. i hope this is not personal attack.

 

That little bit left over gets syhponed out ya' goon! LOL! ( I am kiding not flaming)

 

dude, i am not flaming you either but i am not kidding as well. there are "things" that never see day light and you are probably unware of their existence, let alone see them and "syhponed out ya' goon!". you see only a fraction of what happens in your tank and that's given you spend a lot of time watching it and doing every possible maintainces routines everyday for the next 10 years none stop. the point i am trying to say is: in a close system, you can't do a 100% waste removal. if you don't agree with that, i have nothing more to say. you are lucky if you can do 99%. there will be build up, it's a matter of how much, how fast and where it's being stored. sand bed is one of the most likely place any debris will end up. that's why bb-er like to remove their sand so they can easily spot (with greater current and a bare bottom of course) the left over and "syhponed out ya' goon!". with a sand bed, there are greater chance that something got trap inside it before you ever notice or got a chance to "syhponed out ya' goon!". is this really that difficult to understand?

 

Been reefing for more than 15 years total.

I am in no way new to this hobby thats for sure.

 

i have seen you post this info in other threads and i am telling you:

 

1. this has very little to do with most discussion

2. you are not the only 15 years reefer believe it or not

3. just because you have more experience doing something does not necessary means everything you say is correct.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

I dont claim to be correct 100 percent of the time.

I know of SEVERAL poeple on this board with more experience with this than my self.

My experience being stated has everything to do with my comentsas well as your. It clears up any thought that I may be new to this and spouting off nonsense. ( like some )

What you dont see is in the sand (which is suposed to be taken care of by microfauna and by your cleanup crew) or behind the rock work, Which means you dont have enough flow for it to make it back out.

 

Is that realy that hard to undestand?

 

Thick headed means your head is to thick to absorb what I am saying.

Its a joke.

[xenia30]

Have you tried contacting garf.org they have a clean up crew that is amazing you should also get some garf grunge.

[onthefly]

My point....you say "BAD HUSBANDRY" and that's it. You also said "nothing more than bad husbandry causes this suposed OTS." I'd like to think, since DP has been around the block a few times he has an understanding of his tank inhabitants needs, and therefore husbandry is not an issue. A perfect example (just an example): What he uses Walmart water like so many do and it is time for them to change their RO filters? I mean it's not loaded with NO3 or PO4, but just a high TDS. All the w/c's in the world aren't going to help...They'll only make it worst.

 

Back to DP's problem. I'v had 4-5 lawnmower blennies over the years...all were hungry algae eaters (unlike RMM's experience). I have also had Turbos bypass hair algae and go only for film algae (unlike RMM's experience). The bottomline, everyones advice is specific for their set up.

 

You've got a nutrient issue. Somewhere, somehow, PO4 or NO3 is getting into the system (frozen food, water supply, bioload, etc.) and needs to be found.

 

I had a huge NO3 level in my FOWLR (like 50-60ppm). Being the lazy bastard I am, rather than making a billion gallons of SW for w/c's, I made a coil denitrifier. Took 5 weeks, but all NO3, Hair algae, and film algae were gone! I actually had to trade my turbo's in because they started to starve.

 

So, did you get that PO4 test kit yet?

[dzhuo]

What you dont see is in the sand (which is suposed to be taken care of by microfauna and by your cleanup crew) or behind the rock work, Which means you dont have enough flow for it to make it back out.

 

you still don't get it. who's going to take care of the waste generated by your bateria, microfauna, or your cleanup crew? so more flow will take care of the problem in a close system? like i said, if you don't agree that in a close system, there will be build up. it's a matter of how much, how fast and where. if you have a sand bed, it's more than likely it will end up there. i will leave it at that. have a nice day.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

Onthefly: I dont get this? "What he uses Walmart water like so many do and it is time for them to change their RO filters? I mean it's not loaded with NO3 or PO4, but just a high TDS. All the w/c's in the world aren't going to help...They'll only make it worst."

Maybe from lack of sleep or somthing? LOl! ( meaning me).

How is that an example to what I stated?

 

 

 

dzhuo

 

The waste form the inverts IE your clean up crew is taken care of by the filtration and carbon as well as you syhponing it out.

Whats left gets recylcled to co2 and other gases which escape in the form of tiny bubbles through your DSB.

The microfaunas and bacterial waste ARE IN THE BUBBLES ESCAPING TO THE SURFACE!

Thier waste HELPS YOUR TANK VIA REMOVAL OF NITRATES, NITRITES, and AMONIA LEVELS. LOL!

"it's a matter of how much, how fast and where. if you have a sand bed, it's more than likely it will end up there."

This is the only thing I agree with you on.

[onthefly]

It was just an example of how good husbandry can be undermined at times. So, if he uses something like Walmart RO/DI water and lets say it is time for them to change the filters (e.g. higher levels of TDS) he may go about his buisness thinking he's got a jug of clean water, when in fact he's making a fresh batch of SW with crap water.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

Gotcha'.

[Withers]

Dave, I've heard lots of great things about UV sterolizers if you have a sump to stick it in. They're supposed to do wonders for algae and it isolates any ich outbreak you might have. I've yet to try one out, but I want to.

 

Reef_Mad_Man, you're throwing out lots of opinions, and absolutely nothing to back them up. You can't possibly tell us that OTS is a myth, because you can't prove that it can't happen. You're telling us that it is instead "bad husbandry," which is an awfully broad term, and could range from negligence all the way down to not replacing your membrane on your RO/DI system often enough.

 

When it comes down to it, there's too many unknown factors in our little boxes of water, and any one of those could contribute to a DSB failing. Add to that fact that everybody maintains their own tanks differently, and we'll never find out what is causing OTS, but saying that it doesn't exist is just plain ignorant.

[Reef_Mad_Man]

Realy? Tell that to the many expets that them selves say OTS with or with out a DBS is in fact a Myth.

Example:

Dosent come out and call it a "myth " persay but you get the gerneral idea on what he means and that is is simply bad husbandry that causes it by the steps needed to take care of OTS.

http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

Example 2:

Julian Sprung presented a talk titled "What is Old Tank Syndrome?" The most intriguing of the problems he discussed was referred to as "IT". A coral that has grown well in a tank suddenly stops growing and may begin to die. Other corals continue to do fine. Frags from the problem coral do fine in other tanks. If the coral is reintroduced to the tank it once again fails. It is as if the coral has become allergic to the tank. Possible causes include bacteria, viruses, allelopathy, and competition for limited food. Julian's only suggestion was to enjoy the coral in one of your friend's tanks and to take satisfaction in the corals that do grow.

WHat kind of proof is that gargbage? LOL!

Example 3:

THE DEFENITION OF OTS:

Old Tank Syndrome – Condition in which organic acids, excess nitrates, and other products accumulate in the aquarium, causing gradual decline in pH or a sudden pH crash. Caused by lack of proper maintenance of the aquarium including regular partial Water Changes.

FOUND HERE.

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_glossary.php

Example 4:

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_bri...ghtbill_wc.html

 

 

 

 

You see the difference betwene OTS and bad husbandry is only in our mind.

The explintaion on why OTS occurs and the relations ship it has with bad husbandry goes hand in hand.

Now hows that for nothing to back it up.

Peopl elik eyour self shoul dspendmore time researching andless time sucking but with sprung and others off thier rocker self proclaimed reef gurus just because they wrote a book, on some one elses research.

 

As reefers we are very pridefull and forget common sense when some one mentions bad husbandry as a possible cause to somthing.

W imediately jump ongaurd and start defending ourselves.

Open you rmind and eyes and you will see what is realy going on in your own tank.

YES there are too many variable to make proper diangosis over the internet with out being there.

Bu tin my own experience(as wel as MANY MANY MANY others) OTS is a myth. Just google it.

OTS with a DSB one more time:

Improper clean up crew, to small of a recentage of water changes being performed, allowing pockes of nitrites, nitrates, HO2(??) and other nasties to form and be released all at one time , Leck of goood flow on and behind the rock work, especialy over the sand bed.

RTN rapid tissue necrosis in sps and lps is usualy due to the same factors. SO OTS shoul dbe called "Reefer who got tired of maitenance syndrome" LOL!

Ishould have mentioned that OVER STOCKING you rdsb with TOO MANY SANDSIFTERS ESPECIALY SANDSIFTING GOBIES will void youe dsb of beneficail bacteria populations by constantly turning over the sand to often.

PaulB on RC has had a reef tank set up for 32 YEARS!!!!(again do some reseasrch there as well you will even see his photots.)

Guess what? NO OTS THERE. See anything wrong here?

 

 

BTW FLY, The under mining of good maintnance via use of bought RODI water whos maker is in need of a membrane change can be found before hand via a simple TDS reading on a 25 buck monitor. Just donne don me was all! LOL!

[onthefly]

Sure....Lets have a vote....of all of us that don't own RO/DI system......who's owns a $25 TDS meter? I say >95% of people who don't own a RO/DI, don't own a TDS meter. Personally, I trust my water and I'd rather by some frags

 

Like you I put forth "one" example of how bad husbandry "could not" be the resaon. There are many more...

 

Also, OTS can be define by many parameters, and the livestock one keeps. PaulB is a great example of a mixed system (he uses a RUGF as well), but he caters to mostly softies, and some hardier SPS. Personally, I don't like the garbage look myself (for those who haven't seen his tank, he like to keep beer bottles and concrete in his tank). Besides, in the nanoworld, we tear them down and move them around much more frequently them are 100 gallon couterparts, so OTS probably never comes into play because nano tanks usually don't get "old".

 

Lets face the facts, I can't convince you, you can't convince me. It is like so many debates on these forums. Everyone needs to pick "there" source of info and go with it.

 

Personally, I have an fishless-SPS tank, I want as little nutrients in the water as possible (and I administer those), therefore I chose to use a BB set up

[rbaby]

My solution:

 

Basically--after doing some research and homework, asking experts as to what the hell is up with my dilemma, I've come to the conclusion that it's my frickin ROCK. Sure, some phosphates may have jump-started the growth of my hairy algae, but its the rock it's particularly growing on that is feeding it since I'm now anally rententive about any phosphates in my tank.

 

In the next 2-3 weeks, I plan on taking any rock(s) that may have been affected (even an itty bitty patch) and BOILING IT TO HELL AND BACK in some RO. Then setting up a small rubbermaid with a powerhead in it and letting it cycle for about 3 weeks with some sand and no light...we shall see what happens then.

[Withers]

I guess that's the problem with OTS. It happens to some people, and everybody else cry's out that it's just bad husbandry and sweeps it under the rug.

 

I personally have not had a tank run with a DSB for over 4+ years, so I can't provide any first hand knowledge on the problem. The same goes for you I'm sure. But the thing is, is that just because the problem hasn't happened to you, does not mean that it cannot happen.

 

Try telling Bomber on RC that OTS doesn't happen, see what he says.