tgrupert Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 okay, before you all ban him let's give him a legitimate chance. he says he is a good photographer, and I beleive him. If he can show us a wide shot of his tank so we can ell it's a 20 gallon tank and he changes his site so it doesn't say that the 20 gallon tank he is showing us is a 90 gallon reef. That would confuse people. so, pick one 20 gallon or 90 gallon. then prove it. then make information clear both here and on your site. I saw your ad in a magazine and thought about buying your product. you have not lost me as a customer. If you can prove all of these people wrong I will buy your product. not only that, but if you rectify this situation I will have a picture of my tank ion my signature line and I will write "My system is 100% Marine Environment dual phase formula." but if you fail me I will be forced to come to your house and rape your fish with a Printer down's 1 ML pipette Link to comment
Rock Anemone Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 He is a GREAT help in the fish chat but when people meed urgent help he simply says, "get a book." and that's it... I find that he also ignores people with needs. The fish chat has gone a little weired but, I haven't been there for some time, because of the disrespect I was given there. MDP, I have neve rbought one of your products and probably will in the near future. However, every signle post on this forum from you has been an advertisement. Enjoy the hobby, have fun with the forums, don't just spam advertising the whole time, that isn't what this hobby is about... Rock Anemone;) Link to comment
gobies Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 A 20g high tank is 16 inches high, right? Well, I did some measuring. On that photo (http://www.aquacraft.net/w0011.html), if that is the entire top-to-bottom of the tank shot, the entire sun coral is about 1.75" in diameter in the longer direction. With about six polyps from top to bottom, that puts each polyp at just over 1/4" in diameter. Is this a healthy size for sun corals? Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I don’t know what to think, but I will share my immediate thoughts… At first I thought you were a cheap salesman that didn’t know what he was talking about. I was peeved that you spamed the site. And understand why… There is a time and place for advertisement. Dave asked what the difference was between the banners at the top and people who advertise in the forums themselves, here is the answer: First, people who advertise at the top of the page fund this site. Second, I don’t feel “suckered” when I click on the banners. I know exactly what they are when I click them. Let me let you in on your first business tip (as I’m going to let you in on a few, before I’m done with the post) you don’t want your customers to feel suckered. The face of business has changed; marketers have discovered that people are more than willing to come back over and over again (and give you recommendations) if they feel EMPOWERED. This doesn’t mean that you have to give customers perfect service, only leave them feeling like they have talked to you on a “human” level. That is to say they are not sheep to be conned into reading your advertisements (i.e. how many people would order from a pop-up add on the net?? We HATE those things, and close them as quickly as possible). Goodwill is a good thing for business –Although I’m sure a CEO knows that- I’m sure you, as a CEO, are also aware that being busted for false advertisement it not exactly good for business nor your pocket book (punitive fines are a pain in the rear, not to mention legal fees –which are often just as painful as the fines themselves). Well let me give you your second business lesson of the day. The way to prevent or minimize lawsuits is to take “prompt and immediate action.” This shows that you did your best to correct your errors. Well here is your dilemma, October 19, 2002 at 7:08 you claimed that the tank in the photograph was a 20 gallon tank (not to say that this is false). But then someone pointed out that you claimed the SAME tank was a 90 gallon tank on your website (http://www.aquacraft.net/w0011.html ). Free legal advice: This looks a lot like false advertisement -legaly speaking- (as you stated both in order to attract customers!!); I suggest you claim that your site was mistaken (and not this post). I would suggest this because you affirmed that you knew what your web-site stated, and you affirmed that it was incorrect (“Sorry for confusion regarding tank size. On our site it indicates it is a 90 gallon tank. It is actually a 20 gallon tank.”). Now here is where the “prompt and immediate action” comes in. As of today October 21, 2002 at 8:53 your site is still incorrect. Now I do not know the internal workings of your company. It is possible that you do not have control over your web-site, and have to contact someone to change it. However, I recommend that you have documentation that you did so “promptly” to avoid the possible charges –although I’m sure as a CEO of a “respectful and honest company” you keep documentation of everything. Since I’m sure you do, document this: “…what created and keeps this aquarium functioning.” This directly states that the tank is still around. Now I’m being skeptical here, consider me nuts (as you have lied about the tank size and lighting –by the way 6000K is a really bad idea on a reef-tank, the spectrum is shifted too far to the red side to keep coral thriving), but I have a feeling that a 20 gallon with 5 fish (yes count them 5 fish: two yellow-tailed damsels, two clownfish, and one unidentified redish colored one in the upper right corner) in a tank that has NO coralline growth (not a great sign) and claims to have coral growth (which means that you SHOULD have coralline growth) is not still around from its birth in 1999. A year when nanos were in their earlier stages, and not nearly as stable as they are today (not saying that it isn’t, only that I would consider it HIGHLY unlikely). If you do end up in a lawsuit, good luck, as I highly doubt that a jury will believe your story (if you didn’t know juries tend to distrust corporations from the start, and in a court room it looks a lot more like you have to prove your innocent, rather than the supposed “innocent until proven guilty”). Also here is another legal heads up for you… On your site you state: “The Coralife® claim of rich in trace elements is misleading. It contains the same number of trace elements as other marine salts. At the same time, major elements are either very low or vary dramatically from sample to sample. Bromide is found as an impurity. There are other statements on their package that are also false” ( http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt_comparison.htm ). There is no leeway here you have explicitly stated that Coralife had made false claims about their product in hopes of selling it (false advertisement). You are accusing Coralife of false advertisement on the WEB -a large audience of potential and current customers (according to your site: “After a little over one year promoting this web site in aquarium magazines, search engines and related links, we are getting over 12,500 hits per month”), and you are spreading these links through chat rooms and internet forums in hopes of damaging their credibility and enhancing your own (taking customers). This is a serious charge to a company who diligently works to uphold their integrity and reliability. The first claim that the contents vary from package to package is frivolous, as it would not be economical to produce a perfect batch time and again. However, your latter claim “There are other statements on their package that are also false” can get you into a lot of trouble. For one, "statements” implies that there is more than one false statement on their package. The fact that you didn't state WHICH statements will give you some "wiggle room." And second, you have to be able to PROVE that your claims are true or it is SLANDER. I have looked at the complete analysis of Coralife salt that you have on your site… Your report is sketchy at best (I hope your research is better than your reporting). ...but I still found nothing that indicated that they positively made false claims, as you have alleged. This is the last legal issue that I have with you and your company. I will also be sending this section of this complaint to Coralife (Energy Savers Unlimited), as they might find it to be in their best interest to be informed of this review. Ok, I’m done with your “avoiding legal ramifications” session. Now lets try general customer relations. Calling potential customers unconstructive, weird, and unknowledgeable is not a good business practice. I would highly suggest picking up a book on “You-Viewpoint” business writing. It will teach you how to put your customers first in your writings. This type of business practice will help you attract new customers and even more important keep the ones you have! You can have the best customer support and product in the word (as I’m sure you do, as everything else about your business seems so clean and honest), but if your customer relations is bad, your business is shot! Now I know you are sitting there saying, I’ve been in business since the 70’s, I obviously know how to run a business. Let me ask you this: How old is your company compared to other salt manufactures…? –guess what, you have been around longer than some of the majors!! If your business practices looked cleaner, and your customer relations stronger perhaps you could have been HUGE by now! But then again I guess you should know all of this… In conclusion, I didn’t trust you, then you earned my respect, then as others began to dig deeper into you and your company, so did I. At this point I actually like you less than I did originally… You have not only lost my trust but my respect, which you originally obtained. I will not buy your product, nor your information… As Neptune-USD put it: “You want smarter and more constructive replies,” well you got them (one from an upset member that you harassed on another site, another from a pre-law student at one of California’s top law schools –not myself by the way-, and one from a business student at one of the top 15 business schools in the nation). Smart responses you did illicit and receive! You have proved yourself and your business (at least in my mind) to be too sketchy, misleading, and dishonest for me. Perhaps you can find someway to rectify this; honestly I hope you can, as I do not wish to despise you nor your company. *Sorry Chris, I know you don't like people quarreling on your site (I don't either, to be honest with you). However, as much as this guy is respected elsewhere I cannot and will not sit by while he insults and misleads others on nano-reef.com. If he wishes to advertise he should pay you just like the others. There is a deference between people around here that offer to build a canopy for someone, and a full fledged corporation (reputable or not) smearing their logo on the site. I have left boards elsewhere because this ran ramped. I have also talked to Dave in some detail about you, and I am most willing to put your corporate crap behind me... I welcome you as a board member, but not as a company. Once I get to know YOU, then maybe I'll trust you as a buisness person. Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Im speechless...... Excelent reply Printer. MIKE..... yer on yer own with this one. Printer did say he would respect yer Knowledge..... just dont be a Tool. FWIW, I introduced Mike MDP to this site.. I thought yall would like his stuff since it was good and REAL working material IMO and proven by a few who have used it. This is my last stance..... He has come here to help, and you see him as a Salesman cause his pics that are available right now have product placements in them.... If he joined.. described his tanks in detail, then ya posted with ....."PLEASE POST SOME PICS WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE!" then he posted them would that make it OK? <<<>> sheesh.... perhaps I now realize why all the good reefers and PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY, never bother to post on boards.:*( my self included in the future perhaps. (much to the joy of a few im sure) THIS IS A HOBBY. Financed by beginners and 'sperts alike. Sink or Swim.... there be Sharks in them thar waters. I donno who said it first, but. Lighten Up Francis. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 link to your web-site Is this supposed to bring business in, or chase it away? 'Cause this is more immature than anything I have ever read on here (and that is saying a LOT)! Link to comment
gobies Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 my first response>> Got a recent photo? > I would have thought people would post replies that would be constructive. Okay, this is buggin' me. IMHO, it's hard to post constructive replies about a tank when the only photos you have of said tank are old. So here are my "constructive" (?!?) replies, given the info from the first post only.... - 20g high or 20g long? How many watts are you running on those lights? - No actinics? The tank looks awfully yellow... (I thought 6500k would be sufficient, too, until I added a real actinic bulb. That made a MAJOR difference -- and improvement -- in appearance!) - Um, five fish in a 20g? I think that's a bit overstocked, especially since those clowns are gonna grow.... - Are you running into territoriality problems with the three damnsels? (spelling intentional) - Where did you find yellow 'shrooms? - What kind of live rock did you use? I don't see any coralline... did you start it with just base rock? Link to comment
tgrupert Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Originally posted by gobies my first response>> Got a recent photo? > Okay, this is buggin' me. IMHO, it's hard to post constructive replies about a tank when the only photos you have of said tank are old. he talks a lot about his photographic equipment so he should be anble to produce results. I've been to his website and the only problems I have with it is that it is not made clear that the site is a corporate website and not a magazine. it's not in the format of any corporate site I've ever been to, but it does have a lot of good extra content. The only problem I have is the collum of his magazine called get out the kitchen. the collum is dedicated to bad mouthing people saying bad things about him and his product. Mike you haven't lost me as a costumer. plese show me that you are an honest guy and I will use your salt exclusivly. Link to comment
Christopher Marks Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Please view this post: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...=&threadid=4985 Link to comment
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