fish04 Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Hey just want throw this out to anyone who may be inn the Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse area. I have a STOCKED 10 gal nano with probably $500 worth of corals in it. Last night my lights started smoking and we were very near a full blown fire by the time I got them turned off. My wife is totally freaked out now, so I have to dismantle every thing and sell it back to the store. Now I'd rather not do that if I can help it so I am giving anyone who may want some or all of it first dibs.....The catch.....It has to go by tomorrow! What I would like is $250 for everything. That includes the lights if you want them (I take no responsibility for their functionality), NO canopy, glass, stand, filter that all stays with me, 20lbs of liverock that has been in one of my tanks for over 5 years, Crabs, snails, all of the corals. the corals include Brown frogspwan, metalic green stars, curly stars, many different assorted mushrooms, toadstool leather, finger leather, tons of xenia, briareum, candy coral, polyps galore, and tons of other stuff that has popped up over the years. Now, as most of you can understand this is absolutely killing me to do this, but I understand my wife's point. we were very close to a fire an I am sort of scared off now too. If you are interested please email me today at tdixon01@rochester.rr.com FYI if you are interested in pieces I will sell pieces too just ask, but I WILL NOT SHIP so don't ask! Sorry! Pics of the tank are as follows......Just so you know this an older picuture some of the stuff is bigger now, some is not there anymore (like the bubble coral). I posted the pic for a general idea of what is in the tank. Link to comment
Korbin Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 that sucks. Tell us what kind of lights you have and what you think went wrong. I hope it wasn't a smartlight-over-open-water thing. Link to comment
fish04 Posted October 17, 2002 Author Share Posted October 17, 2002 I don't want to mention the name of the manufaturer because I don't believe it is their fault. The fixture is a ballast/ endcap/ PC light setup. Like most of the retro fit fixtures "some assembly is required". You have to attach wire together and wire the end caps etc. The smoke was coming from the wires where they needed to be attached to each other with the "wire screws". Now I'm no electrician so I did the best I could, and for the record these babies were running for almost 2 years without a problem, and before that I had a VHO self wired setup for about 4 years, all with no problems. But I will tell you there's nothing like seeing smoke billowing out of the back of your tank to turn you off to the hobby QUICK! I am going to get rid of all the live stuff and just throw some inverts and a few fish in there, and buy a stock, run of the mill hood for it, and keep th canopy over it for looks, maybe do some low light stuff, but my days of MH, PC and VHO are done! It's not worth a fire..... Anyone interested yet? Down to T minus 7 hours and counting! Link to comment
chufa Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Did you by any chance have water resistant endcaps? Were your lights over open water? Link to comment
rlinusc Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 okay this scares the living daylights out of me... Does anyone know of any safety measure that can be taken to prevent this from happening? Linus Link to comment
fish04 Posted October 17, 2002 Author Share Posted October 17, 2002 Yes they are water resistant end caps and yes it was over open water. However the smoke did not come from inside of the lights or attachments, it came from the place where the wires were spliced together between the ballast and the lighting fixture. So it had nothing to do with the open water thing or end caps. And... I am in NY I thought you would have gotten that from the Buffalo/ Rochester/ Syracuse thing...not sure what other states have these three cities FWIW... I have been kjeeping reefs and fish for over 20 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened. I am very careful and meticulous type person so I make sure everything is done correctly. This could happen to anyone so be careful...it doesn't have any thing to do with the open water thing, or the end caps, it is pure wiring! Did you know that over half of all house fires are caused by faulty wiring...something to think about, all you DIY reefers out there! Link to comment
jackdp Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 If smoke was coming from the actual wires then it sounds like you had a current draw problem. I haven't made my lighting yet, but I work with lighting/electricity for a living. Wires are rated by gauge to carry a certain amount of current (amps). If for some reason something went wrong in the ballast and it tried to draw more current, then the wire may act like a resistor and thus a heating element. Its hard to say though...just my two cents. If you're not sure how much current you will drawing thru a wire then its always safer to use a larger gauge than you think you'll need...heavier wire can never hurt! Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 THIS IS AN AWESOME DEAL!! Someone should jump on it!! I would if I was in the area!!!!!! Link to comment
chufa Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 well, on the Supernova CSL retro kit, the endcapcomes already wired to the ballast. All I had to do is connect the bulb to the endcap and plug in the ballast. I have my bulbs over open water. The endcap is water resistant. I still have some concerns about that. I try to clean out as much as possible the salt creep around the endcap. Link to comment
fish04 Posted October 17, 2002 Author Share Posted October 17, 2002 Hellooo, it's not the endcap. It's based on where the splices come together from the lamp to the ballast (aproximatelt one foot of wre away from the end cap itself and outside of the hood and tank. Regardless, it has scared the crap out of me, and I don't care enough for the hobby to lose my house! Anyone interested.. you are running out of time, I've got a consignment set up at a LFS...hurry! Link to comment
cjm033 Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 thought about shipping yet? lol ,Chris Link to comment
rlinusc Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 What worries me most though is that 1) it was working fine for 2 YEARS before it did this. Is there anything that can be done to safeguard this? linus Link to comment
J-Bass Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Why ditch your setup because of the lighting malfunction? Why not just upgrade with a better and safer light setup? Link to comment
Pikelet Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Without seeing it, it's hard to be certain but I would think that the ballast, if properly designed, should include a miniature circuit breaker or slow blow fuse of some sort on its output side. That will solve the short circuit issue it least. Of course, if there was a problem with heat generated by arcing in on near the wire nuts, there is not much that can be done other than preventative maintenance every year including cleaning and re-terminating any ballast to socket connections. Either way, I'm going to clean up and check out all my connections tonight just in case. Thanks very much for the heads-up. Link to comment
Christopher Marks Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 FWIW to others worried about this... The kits such as the CSL Smartlite, some HelloLights retros, and ahsupply kits...using the screw caps that come with the kits to connect wires is NOT the best of things to do. You should sauder the connections and seal the open wire with shrink tubing, or good electrical tape... The screw caps can come loose over time and cause problems. Link to comment
Pikelet Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 I'm not an expert on the latest version of the National Electricity Code but I think you'll find that soldering is a "no no" on multistrand wire terminations unless they are in some type of enclosure and the wires/cables are supported by proper grommets and cable clamps. Soldering multistrand wire makes it more brittle at the point where the solder stops and the normal multistrand continues. Vibration over time, in conjuction with twisting and flexing, WILL and DOES cause the wire to break at the interface between the solder flow and the rest of the wire. In most cases, the breaks are directly related to the lack of adequate cable and wire clamping next to the termination. In addition, surface corrosion of the wire filaments due to poor insulation against the highly corrosive saltwater environment in situ reduces the wire's ability to bend and flex, eventually leading to breaks. Heat shrink can help prevent flexing and keep out moisture to some extent but I do not believe it is an adequate solution on its own. Once the wires are terminated, make damned sure that they are solidly supported against torsional, longitudinal and lateral flexing possiblities, seal it up and check it regularly when you clean your lights. Link to comment
Bocephous Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Use crimp on butt connectors, then wrap that in electrical tape. It always helps to use oversized wires too. Link to comment
rlinusc Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 if i had known that there was this danger with retro kits i would've shelled out the extra dough. Linus Link to comment
Pikelet Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Crimp type butt connectors are ok if you have the right crimping tool and know how to use it. Unfortunately, most people improvise with pliers and such. The results are often pretty dodgey IME. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 HELLO!!! This guy is getting rid of an entire system for CHEAP!! TAKE IT!!!! If I was in the area, I would buy it right now... Although it sounds like you will need new lighting . .....Just make sure you waterproof the connections under those wire nuts -Saran Wrap works really well (i think i mentioned this in another post today). If you are close enough to 'em, ask if you can keep the filter for like two weeks (run another filter parallel to the old one) then take the old one back to 'em... That is if he is running a bio filter... This will minimize the change over (less of an ammonia spike). SOME ONE, GRAB THIS!!! Link to comment
Dave ESPI Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 posted by rlinusc, Originated by Dave ESPI if Ya had listened to advice, that there was this danger with retro kits ya would've shelled out the extra dough fer a good light set. reiteration for those who missed it the first 17 times. DONT GO GHETTO . Fish, if ya dont sell it all, I will take it. lemme know. I see no reason why you cant simply get a twin 32 W CSL unit and a GFI. taking down a reef cause of one bad accident is not being true to yerself, nor is it fair to yer beloved animals. ALL LIGHTS CAN GO BAD. Ive had NOs burn up and scorch walls before over FW too. Ya should have seen what happened to a 1000 W halide that got hit with a Super Soaker squirt gun in a school gymnasium once. X) it wasnt pritty. Link to comment
fish04 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Last evening I took the lighting apart and inspected all the wiring. Not one, but two wires were melted. So I assume that the ballast failed in some way causing an increase in current. The increase in current caused the wires to fail at their weakest point...where they were crimped together since that acted as a resistor. SO...I am done with reefs for now. I would highly recommend to anyone using a DIY setup to inspect their setup. I know there are tons of people in this forum who use shoddy setups made of DIY ballasts, lights, shop lights, and screw in ballasts from lights of america. My setup was profesionally made and I still had this problem. I shudder to think of all the fire hazzards I have heard of in this forum over the past year. I'd hate to see anyone lose their home over a fish tank so what I am saying is.....BE AWARE! Link to comment
fish04 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 I appreciate everyone's comments. I understand that there are other options to selling the tank, but at this time I don't have the money to put into new lights, we are in the process of buying a house and every dollar counts. My wife is freaked out, so all you guys who are married know that holds alot of weight as does having a 2 year old in the house! I don't buy the whole salt creep, water proof, etc. reasoning. The wires that caught fire were well insulated, away from the water, wrapped in electrical tape, and connected together with a crimping device. The failure was not due to water or poor setup, it was running fine for two years before this incident. The entire crimp plate was melted along with the wire on both of the wires! It looks like a ballast failure. If you weren't there you couldn't imagine how scary it was to think what we would have come home to if we had gone out to dinner or something that evening! I appreciate the options, believe me I thought about them, but I'm done for now. I'll take the hobby back up in a few years in the new house and have a professional build the lights hardwired! Link to comment
Pikelet Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 If the wires melted, you're sure it was an internal catastrophic failure in the ballast and your hands are clean, I suggest that you contact the ballast manufacturer and the supplier immediately so that they can arrange a recall. This is a very serious problem that goes far beyond your fire and the sale of your livestock. Lives and property are at risk here. Link to comment
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