The AIO flow problem

[geekreef_05]

I really like the concept of AIO aquariums. The asethtics and functionality are great. Mini sumps and surfacing skimmer overflows have been good innovations.

 

But one thing has continued to pester me - keeping the water level steady is a challenge. 

 

I find any filter sock or pad works great for a week. But beyond that ends up slowing the sump flow down so much that water levels start to change, after a week. 

 

Id like to automate my Waterbox 20 Cube for 3 week periods, while i travel for work. 

 

Seems like everything is fine without a filter. With no filter, its reliable for 3 weeks. 

 

But put in a sock or filter pad and one week later, even with very clean water and little debris collection, the flow slows enough to start changing the water level. 

 

How do others mitigate this problem? 

[KevMax]

I was worried about this with AIO's when I first started looking.  For the first few weeks I left it for a week and no problem. Now I do change the filter sock every second day, although it will last longer. With my AIO the glass at the filter sock chamber has a slot cut out which would allow water to overflow into the next chamber in the worst case scenario with very little impact on levels. If I were to go away for a few weeks I would either just remove the filter sock or ask someone to change it out. I have a controllable return pump and I have tested this at varying speeds and all seems ok.

[KC2020]

Do you need constant mechanical filtration ?

 

If you prefer it, can you run without it for the 3 weeks you're not there ?

 

The water level in my WB20 is constant. I took out the filter sock and the little acrylic supports for it and put an in-tank media chamber in its place. I run a filter pad in the top chamber for a day, once a week, and then remove it. I have Maxspect Nano-Tech Bio-Spheres in the middle chamber and Sera Siporax in the bottom chamber. These are copepod and amphipod hotels as well as very efficient hosts for beneficial bacteria. In the middle chamber of the AIO I have the included WB sponge on the bottom. I use an optical ATO in the return chamber. My water level never varies by more than 1/8". The distance between the on and off points of the ATO sensor. Water is crystal clear. 

 

[mitten_reef]

2 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

I really like the concept of AIO aquariums. The asethtics and functionality are great. Mini sumps and surfacing skimmer overflows have been good innovations.

 

But one thing has continued to pester me - keeping the water level steady is a challenge. 

 

I find any filter sock or pad works great for a week. But beyond that ends up slowing the sump flow down so much that water levels start to change, after a week. 

 

Id like to automate my Waterbox 20 Cube for 3 week periods, while i travel for work. 

 

Seems like everything is fine without a filter. With no filter, its reliable for 3 weeks. 

 

But put in a sock or filter pad and one week later, even with very clean water and little debris collection, the flow slows enough to start changing the water level. 

 

How do others mitigate this problem? 

why does the water level  change in the overflow chamber bother you?  your sump isn't "slowing down", realistically speaking, your return pump dictates how much flow is going through you sump at a given time.  The only effect I see is the ATO kicks on more, diluting the overall salinity.  But I don't think the added volume "above the sock" will alter the salinity enough that it'd cause any issue, that's where you're going with the water fluctuation.

 

In my current tank, the sock/filter pad chambers even in the "real" sump overflow all the time due to poop and food and any other detritus.  when I go away, I just go completely without the filter pads.  and plan on feeding less (ie. via instruction to whomever watching the tank while I'm gone), so less chance of waste accumulation (whether leftover food or fish poop). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

I find any filter sock or pad works great for a week. But beyond that ends up slowing the sump flow down so much that water levels start to change, after a week. 

Seems like mechanical filtration is mostly out of place in a reef.....for the reasons you described, and other coral-related reasons too.  

 

Gotta be cleaned at least (not at most) once a week if you're gonna use it.  If you can't clean it that often, IMO it's better to do without.

 

If your AIO design HAS to have a sponge to work, then IMO that's a better design for a freshwater or fish-only tank......BUT that should still be able to be remedied with a sponge or sock that's more coarse / less fine / has a larger mesh (ie 400 micron instead of 100 micron)....won't clog as fast, or maybe not at all.  

 

Still could be trial and error to get just the right filtering.

 

6 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

Seems like everything is fine without a filter. With no filter, its reliable for 3 weeks. 

Seems to me like that's your answer....personally, I would just run it that way all the time.

 

 

[Daniel92481]

I’ve also experienced this in the past. I run one filter pad in my AIO media basket constantly and change it once per week with my water change. I found that if I don’t scrub the overflow teeth with a toothbrush periodically my back chamber will fluctuate. 

[geekreef_05]

15 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

why does the water level  change in the overflow chamber bother you?  your sump isn't "slowing down", realistically speaking, your return pump dictates how much flow is going through you sump at a given time.  The only effect I see is the ATO kicks on more, diluting the overall salinity.  But I don't think the added volume "above the sock" will alter the salinity enough that it'd cause any issue, that's where you're going with the water fluctuation.

 

In my current tank, the sock/filter pad chambers even in the "real" sump overflow all the time due to poop and food and any other detritus.  when I go away, I just go completely without the filter pads.  and plan on feeding less (ie. via instruction to whomever watching the tank while I'm gone), so less chance of waste accumulation (whether leftover food or fish poop). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if left unchecked it will eventually overflow the display and drip to the floor. This is actually highly likely over 3 weeks. 

 

When i have run a filter and removed it a week later, it was the increased display water volume that tipped me off something was wrong. 

 

And of course the cascade effect is diluted salinity. 

 

 

The answers here are really interesting. Sounds like the common solution is to run filter pads and socks for very short periods of time only. 

 

 

[geekreef_05]

.

[geekreef_05]

Thanks everyone

[KevMax]

I am certainly not seeing anything with my AIO that gives me any cause for concern and salinity for me is very stable. But the little overflow slot in the image is one of the reasons I chose this AIO just as a precaution. For me there is no flow AIO problem but i totally get your concerns.

[mitten_reef]

2 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

Well if left unchecked it will eventually overflow the display and drip to the floor. This is actually highly likely over 3 weeks. 

 

When i have run a filter and removed it a week later, it was the increased display water volume that tipped me off something was wrong. 

 

And of course the cascade effect is diluted salinity. 

 

 

The answers here are really interesting. Sounds like the common solution is to run filter pads and socks for very short periods of time only. 

 

 

I think I follow you now on why the front display might have increased water level should the first filtration chamber gets "full", since the display will eventually matches whatever the first filter chamber level is in the back.  the wavemaker(s) in the display could then cause further splashing - and spillage - if the surface ripples are strong enough. 

 

however, if the first chamber partition is designed with emergency spill-over, or better yet with the emergency cutout like the example above, then the risk of total system overflow shouldn't exist - at some point, all chambers should reach equilibrium, as long as the return pump and ATO functioning properly. 

 

But I'm not familiar enough with WB AIO to suggest anything further, however.

[KevMax]

One further thing worth mentioning with my particular nano is the overflow slot direct from the aquarium to the return chamber. It would have to be a very extreme incident for that to come into use. Whilst I doubt it will ever be needed it is a final failsafe. It's better use is that it allows me to feed a cable through from a wave maker without having to cut a slot in the main aquarium lid.  😄

 

 

[Sturgi_0225]

Redsea is coming out with a fleece roller for nano tanks also if you Google search there is a guy who makes 3D printed rollers for your size tank, could work out

[Sturgi_0225]

https://isealive.com/products/waterbox-roller-mat-filter-fits-10-20-cube-15-25-peninsula
 

these

[geekreef_05]

Interesting! Ive never used a roller like that before. I will consider this option, thanks! 

[Sturgi_0225]

Back when I was looking at the WB I came across those and they seem pretty cool and think it would work well

[KC2020]

I've found over a dozen different roller mat setups that work in the WB AIOs. You really don't have to spend much money if you are willing to roll the mat manually.

[geekreef_05]

Hm.. roll manually might not work...how often do i need to roll it?

 

Will it last 20-30 days without intervention and without causing negative effects? 

[Sturgi_0225]

Maybe not 20-30 days, I believe he said he’s rolled his every 5-7 days depending on sticking

[mcarroll]

If you can't wrap your reef around the idea that mechanical filtering isn't necessary, I think the other direction to go with toward ♾️ dirt holding capacity within the filter element.   Can't remember the make, but I've seen an AIO design where virtually the entire back chamber is sponge, just as one example of that.