spectre Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by schaferfred Thanks ookinohito and uscreef. I will try what you say first but I have a feeling with all the crud that is in my sand that this is the source of all my nutrients for the diatoms. I am using the same water for top offs that I have been using since April and now I believe there is a possibility of two culprits. The fish food or the sand bed. I am not eliminating the possibility of the RO/DI water I am using to be tainted, but it is suppose to be the purist water around these parts. Says it is filtered by reverse osmosis, ozination, and carbon purified. Where are you getting your water? Reverse Osmosis will not remove all silicates or phosphates, thats what a deionization unit is for. If it doesn't say "DI" on it, this is most likely your source of trouble.. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 What is ozination than? Isn't that DI? Like I said......It is the same water I've been using since the beginning, since April, the problem did not start until August. Wouldn't I have had the problem within the first 4 months if it was the water? Link to comment
spectre Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 ah sorry, missed that part, yes you probably would of. Not sure what ozination is, I'm thinking your spelling that wrong and maybe it says de-ionization which would be DI. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has to be the food then, or maybe the chemical makeup of your source water has changed since April. I really can't see your sandbed being the culprit. I have had a 20 gal H with the same sand bed in it for 4 years and never had any problem with diatoms after the initial start up. I never vacuum it, the snails, crabs, bristleworms, pods, and stars keep it stirred and clean. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 My tank has no bristleworms and the psuedochromis has eaten most of the pods and my bristle star does not a damn thing but take food from my hand every couple of days. Thanks Spectre Link to comment
fungia Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Not sure what ozination is, I'm thinking your spelling that wrong and maybe it says de-ionization which would be DI. Ozonation is the process of mixing water and ozone (O3- a "normal" oxygen plus an extra molecule). Ozone is very reactive because that extra oxygen is a free radical and wants to jump off and bond to something. Used a lot in drinking water purification and in public aquariums- especially with marine mammals and aquatic birds like penguins because they are so NASTY! Really effective against bacteria and organic pollutants, but probably not so against minerals like silica. Like someone else said- test your top-off water and rule that out as a source first before you do all the work of removing the sand. If it is in your water, than you will still have the problem even with a bare-bottom tank. IMO bare bottom tanks look unnatural ;-) at least put in some broken up live rock rubble! Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Fungia- why would public aquariums use it if their tanks would end up looking as nasty as mine. I will post pics tonight for you all to see. Link to comment
yoshiod9 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 check your tank water and top-off water for phosphates and silicates...those are huge reasons for diatom break outs. leave your sand bed in... http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.htm ...taking it out won't do you any good. good luck and keep us posted! Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Ozination (aka Ozonation) is essentially pumping ozone into the water. The ozone is O3, like Oxygen gas (which is O2) except that it has an extra oxygen molecule. This makes it a radical. That means that it destroys living tissue, and thus microorganisms. After it reacts with the organism, it leaves O2 in the water. It is designed to sterilize the water. It won't do anything for silicate. To me, (just my opinion) the barebottom tanks just don't look natural. Lots of people like them because they are so clean looking. I would just rather have something that looked natural, that's all. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Call me ignorant, but if it is the water I am using than wouldn't the problem have reared it's head withinthe first 4 months that I was using it? I am not all for removing my sand bed. Maybe I will return the two fish I have and see if the problem persisits. I don't know....I'm P.O.'d about this and frustrated. I guess I'll check the source water but I still think it is okay. Camera was dead last night so I'll post pics tonite. Thanks Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Yes and no. Hee hee! Your problem might not have shown up until now (I'm taking a guess here), because maybe the DI cartridge is spent, or some other change has been made that you're unaware of with respect to your water. Maybe the city water you're on now has a high level of silicate. If they've done any major maintenance on their system it's possible. Silicate isn't considered hazardous, so they don't notify the public if this level is high, only heavy metals and toxic organics. Again, I have to stress the point, since you don't have silica sand, your sandbed is not to blame. It's like saying that you're going to seal yourself in an airtight tube with a couple of lead bricks and breathe the oxygen that comes out of them to stay alive. There is no oxygen coming out of them, and thus you'd die. Since there's no silica in your sand, it's coming from somewhere else. Since your diatom problem is constant, and I assume that you do water changes, that means you have a steady input of silica into your system. The only two things that are steadily going into your system are food and water. That narrows the field down considerably. Sorry for the long post, but I'm a scientist, so I tend to look at things analytically. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 That's cool, thx ookinohito. But here is the scenario. I will do a water change, 1 gallon or two gallon, whichever I am in the mood for and everything looks good for a day or two than the algae just comes back. This tends to make me think that there is something that fouls my water after the change (crap that builds up in the sand bed). If I was putting silicate back in with my water changes, wouldn't the algae just come right back within hours of the water change since I just added more nutrients? Damn I am getting confused.....LOL. Not really just frustrated. I have a buddy that works at our town water plant...so I am going to have him test this "pure "water that I have. Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 One last suggestion and I'll leave you alone. After you've tested your pure water, if it's clean, take some of your tank water and test it. If that's clean, put some of your food into some water and test that. That will eliminate some possible sources. If you can, get a pic of after a water change, then after the stuff comes back. I'd like to take a look. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 You are not bothering me at all. I will definitely post pics tonite though. The food I am using is Omega One flake. Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Cool. I'll check the board tonight or tomorrow and have a peek. Hopefully we'll get your problem taken care of for you. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Thank you so much. Link to comment
leo Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 If his water is filtered trough ozination and this destroys bacteria would that not mean that the water is killing his bio filtration in the sand and rock?? Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 The topoff and water change water that I use is filtered through RO and ozonation not the tank itself. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Pics of the problem. This is 4 days after a water change and the lights have been on 3 hours. It was normal looking when I first woke up.Prepare to get the shudder in horror Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 ohhhhhhhh The horror!!!!! Link to comment
RegalFlush17 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 This picture shows that you have a very high level of nutrients in your tank such as phosphate and nitrate which causes that dark algal growth on the sand. I suggest adding a refugium or canister filter and using a phosphate remover to remove this problem and enjoy many other benefits of having a low levels of nutrients in your tank. How long has your tank been running? This could also be a side affect of not having your nutrients under control. Goodluck. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Nitrates are very low,not even detectable on my test kit which has a lowest reading of 10ppm. I put a phosphate and silicate remover in 1 week ago but it doesn't seem to be doing a damn thing. This is why I was thinking that I have to much in my tank and the sand bed is fouling the water from all the crud that builds up in it. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Sorry, tank has been going since April....problem started after adding fish in August. Link to comment
Zillian Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I'm not at all a professional, since I still have to start a tank myself. But I remember you had Xenia, and mayB other corals too, but i don't see them in your picture. Did they die? If I read the results you have I would suggest taking water to your lfs (if you did not do that yet) Because i would not believe the results if you see the tank. I'm really sorry that your tank isn't functioning the way it should. Mayb try to cylce again, without fishes, because problems startes when they were present... But do not really take my advise... I'm a noob Greets Zillian Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Thanks Zillian. The xenia is still there, just shrinks up when the diatoms get bad like this. Yes a LFS confirmed my results of testing but we have never tested for Phosphates or silicates. I just found an awesome link about diatoms and will post it's link if it is helpful after reading it. Link to comment
Cameron Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 How old is your test kit? Have you taken a sample to your LFS to test? I find it hard to believe that your nitrates are under 10ppm. If you are having "crud" build up on your sand bed then you must be overfeeding. And whatever your test kit says, "crud" laying around on your sand bed is adding nitrates. My humble suggestion: 1. Go back to using Catalina Sea water 2. do 25% water changes weekly for the next 6 weeks 3. feed your fish a LOT LESS 4. feed your fish a different food 5. cover your tank when the lights go off to make it DARK all night. I think #3 is probably the most important, remember that your fish's "stomach" is only about as big as his eyeball. Fish don't need near as much food as they are willing to eat. No matter what the source of the problem was, I think those 5 steps would fix it. Link to comment
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