schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I have had it with my tank!!! I 'll give you the low down and my course of actions first. Started having problems with a diatom algae bloom. So I added some cerith snails, lazy bastards didn't do a thing. Added a skimmer, pulls crap from the water but still diatoms covering sand and rocks. Changed light bulbs, still diatoms. Switched to using Tropic Marin salt instead of Catalina Real Ocean water, still diatoms. This has been going on for months. My LFS recommended ridding my tank of it's sandbed,that it was probably the source of the nutrients causing the diatoms. I am willing to do anything at this point. I have seen some bare bottom tanks here and also noticed where some people have used a "polyboard" bottom. Where can I find this polyboard?? Someone please HELP!!!! Also I have nassarius snails, if I rid the tank of the sandbed will the nassarius snails need to be returned to the LFS or will they be okay without the sand? Link to comment
embryoguy Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i use a 0.5 inch crushed coral bottom and i ve been very happy. its semi-bare bottom. have you tried to reduce your lighting down to maybe 10 hrs? and do more water changes w/ less feeding. do you like the catalina water? i used it once and was happy with it, but i recently bought oceanic mix and was going to try it out. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 As a matter of fact I did reduce my lighting to 9 hours a day and when that didn't work I purchased a 65 watt lighting unit to see if my 80 watt fixture was too much, no change. I feed once a day, very small amount. I did like the Catalina water but was told that I possibly got a hold of a batch that could have been tainted with phosphates so I switched to Tropic Marin to see if that fixed the problem, it didn't LOL. I have tried even doing two 1 gallon water a changes a week for 3 weeks and that didn't even stop it. Oh and I don't want to forget to say that, yes, I only use RO/DI water for my topoffs. Thanks for the suggestions though embryoguy. Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Diatoms need silicate to live. They have shells that are made of it. What type of sand are you using? If it's silicate sand (regular old playsand) that's the source of your silicate. Eliminate the silicate source, eliminate the problem. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 It's Caribsea Aragonite sand. I am going to remove it though, it's my last course of action that I think could be causing the problem. I am just curious about this "polyboard" that I have seen some people using. Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Not sure about 'polyboard'. Changing substrates isn't something to be taken lightly. Just make sure you read up about it beforehand, as I'm sure you already know. The lack of substrate can wreak havok with lots of organisms such as brittlestars and certain 'pods, not to mention some snails as well. It's just not their natural habitat living on a pane of glass. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 I know, it's just I see alot of people with bare bottom tanks and they look so clean and pristine. I especially liked DAP's tank with the "polyboard" bottom. Duh!!!! I could do a search for "polyboard" on here. God I wasn't even thinking. Thanks ookinohito. Has anyone switched from a sand bottom to bare bottom without any problems?? Link to comment
spectre Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I would not remove the sandbed. This is not the cause of your diatom problem. ookinihito is correct in saying that silicates are probably the problem. Post some tank specs and your water test results so we have a little more info to go by. Get a silcate test kit if you don't have one and check your RO/DI water for silicates. Perhaps your deionizing unit isn't working properly. HTH Link to comment
Dr. Saltwater Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 In Europe most people don't use a sand bed because they only think of pollution. A sandbed has a good and bad side and in my opinion is that a personal desission (did I spell that good?). So ... get info about the good and bad side and make your choice. Make sure you know what you have to do with and without a bottom! System is very different! Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Tank specs: 10 gallon -HOB filter running with Chemipure only -2 mini jet 606's running on wavetimer -Prizm skimmer -13 lbs of live rock -12 lbs of Aragonite sand -Satellite 65 watt lights - Have an Orbit 2 x 40 watt that I was running before trying a different lighting scheme Inhabitants - Pulsing xenia -1 Ocellaris -1 Psuedochromis - 6 Dwarf blue legged hermits - 4 Astreas - 10 very small Nassarius - 10 Cerith Have not added anymore frags of corals because I want to get a hold on this algae problem first Water tests PH - 8.2 Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - the lowest my test kit goes is 10ppm and so I would say somewhere under 10ppm Link to comment
spectre Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 your water looks good (what's the alkalinity at?). Try testing your RO/DI water. I believe that might be the problem. Try taking a water sample and some source water to your LFS and see if they will test for silicates and phosphorus. HTH Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Spectre - you say do not get rid of the sandbed....but how's come there seems to be some very successful bare bottom tanks? There is always so much crap in my sandbed, it's pathetic. Link to comment
pineomt Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Try a refug, that make take care of excess nutrients. I agree with what they are all saying, removing the sandbed may do more harm then good. Link to comment
leo Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 How old is the tank, I would agree that I would try everything before removing the sandbed. A fuge would add volume and some macro both would benift any tank. Have you ran carbon? Link to comment
Withers Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i'm about to switch over to bare bottom too. here's where i'll be buying my starboard (or polyboard, or cutting board, whatever you want to call it) www.cuttingboardcompany.com thats much cheaper than starboard, and they come in a whole load of colors. depending on what kind of corals you want to keep should help you determine which type of substrate you want. SPS need nutrient poor waters, so going bare bottom, with a LOT of flow, helps them out tremendously. soft corals don't need as much of a nutrient poor tank, and too much flow could be detrimental to their health. unless this tank has been up and running for a while, i doubt that the sandbed is your only source of the diatoms. you can also vacuum your sand bed (carefully) by picking some up in the vacuum, then cutting off the flow (pinching off the hose) as it gets halfway up, causing it to fall back down. if you continue to do this you'll have a very efficient water change, and you'll keep your sand bed cleaner. Link to comment
spectre Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 There is nothing wrong with a bare bottom tank, I was just saying removing your sandbed will not necessarily solve your problem. Diatom blooms are caused by the presence of silicates, phosphates, and over abundant nutrients. Generally in a new tank, you can expect a diatom bloom in the first couple of weeks. But it should diminish if the silicates and phosphates are used up. Since you said you having been fighting with this for a few months, then the silicates and phosphates are being replaced routinely. If it is not your water, check to make sure the food you are using is not adding to the problem. All forms of algae are fueled by over abundant nutrients, Diatom algae rears its ugly head with the presence of silicates and phosphates. If we eliminate the silicates and phosphates (actually wont completely elminate them, but get them low enough to not be a nuisance) then the diatoms should disappear(of course if you still have over abundant nutrients you will then have other algae problems). If your sandbed is as dirty as you claim, I would try to clean it and get some more scavengers. Removing it, should be a last resort type option. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Tank has been setup since April 2004, I was just reading over at reef central about DSB crashes over time. This scares me. Seems many have eliminated their sandbeds. I do not run carbon but do run Chemipure 24/7. I do understand the concern of removing the sand bed but I never see any critters cleaning my sand bed other than the lazy *ss snails I added. Any pods that I see, that the psuedochromis hasn't eaten, are always running around on and in my rock. Could you all elaborate on what could happen by removing the sand bed? Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Thanks VicSkimmer and Spectre. I have been vacuuming the sand bed regularly, but even doing it twice a week there just seems to be so much crud that accumulates. I am nervous about adding more critters to "clean up" as it seems I have alot now. Everything was fine until I added the fish which was about 3 months ago. Here are some pictures of my tank before things satrted happening. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=35585 Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 By the way, great link VicSkimmer. Thank you Link to comment
vyger Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Everything was fine until I added the fish which was about 3 months ago sounds as if it could it be the fish food as someone previously mentioned... Link to comment
uscreef Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 feed every other day, if not every 3 days and see if that helps... you don't need to feed your tank that much Link to comment
ookinohito Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by schaferfred I have been vacuuming the sand bed regularly, but even doing it twice a week there just seems to be so much crud that accumulates. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=35585 Probably not related to your diatom problem, but DSBs aren't supposed to be vacuumed...ever. That's what sand sifters are for. If you leave it alone it can act as a nitrate reducer in the lower layers of sand, but not if you vacuum it. Denitrification only occurs in anoxic (anaerobic) sand. If you vacuum, you oxygenate the lower levels of the sandbed. Just my two cents. Also, like was suggested above, take a sample of your water from your tank, as well as the water you use for topoff, feeding, water changes, etc. to your LFS and ask them to test it for silicate. That'll settle it once and for all. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Thanks ookinohito and uscreef. I will try what you say first but I have a feeling with all the crud that is in my sand that this is the source of all my nutrients for the diatoms. I am using the same water for top offs that I have been using since April and now I believe there is a possibility of two culprits. The fish food or the sand bed. I am not eliminating the possibility of the RO/DI water I am using to be tainted, but it is suppose to be the purist water around these parts. Says it is filtered by reverse osmosis, ozination, and carbon purified. Link to comment
Hwarang Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hm, you seem determined to delete the sand in your aquarium. I also point the finger at your source water quality. Remember that a RO/DI filter works better or worse depending on the source water. Don't remove the sand, bare bottom is so ugly. Reef aquariums are supposed to be beautiful. Link to comment
schaferfred Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 What I have now is extremely ugly!!! LOL Is this ugly? Check it out: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=23128 Link to comment
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