My 20high 1 month in

[jdav]

Still working to get the look I want, but hey how much can you do in a month?

[BelowH2O]

Good job so far. Can you post any equipment specs...filtration, lighting, etc? Also, is that a heliofungia at the top left?

 

~BH20

[jdav]

Specs:

 

millennium 3000 filter.

60-65lbs of live rock.

25lbs of live sand.

75w submergible heater.

corallife 65w PC

15w actinic florescent

 

and this is what is in the top left hand corner.....

[mdt178]

How could you fit 60 pounds of LR in a 20H?

[format32]

Yeah you seem to have broken a ton of rules.

Good luck in about 4 months.

[cornstar]

I have the same question!?

[ricky1414]

When I set up my 20H, I had more algae than coral. I think you are moving a tad too fast. Anemones need a well matured ecosystem in order to survive long term. That GM could get a little bigger than you want it.

Plus, what's up with the air bubbles?

[jdav]

Originally posted by mdt178

How could you fit 60 pounds of LR in a 20H?

 

those big pieces are about 2 inches away from the front. Their is no aquascaping of any kind in that tank the rock is pretty much solid all of the way to the back and what little crevices there were got filled with the same stuff that is on top of the substrate in the front of the aquarium. Also, most of it is figi so it's pretty dense. That one piece in the front that the anemone is on weighs 13lbs by itself and the other one that is in the on the back right weighs about the same. 60-65lbs may be a overestimate but I know their is at least 30lbs in there without those two big rocks or the 7 lbs that I bought the other day because that is what I bought the first day when I bought the aquarium.

 

So 30+13+13+7= 63 that's how I figured it.....

[jdav]

What rules are you talking about besides the one about the anemone and a well established tank?

 

I'm honestly surprised this hobby has "rules" since their are about 1,000,000 contrasting opinions on what you should and should not do in a reef aquarium. Either way, I'm quite sure that their are few gospel truths and many if not mostly opinions.

 

Also, about the going to fast thing, I know I just got a little out of control..... I'm leaving it alone for a good minute.

[cornstar]

I know what you mean...some LR can be really dense. Have you thought about upgrading your lighting? You might find that you will struggle to keep the anemone alive with 65w PC. I wish i could go a litte faster like you but i have $$$ restrictions

 

Cheers

 

P.

[jdav]

Originally posted by cornstar

I know what you mean...some LR can be really dense. Have you thought about upgrading your lighting? You might find that you will struggle to keep the anemone alive with 65w PC. I wish i could go a litte faster like you but i have $$$ restrictions

 

Cheers

 

P.

 

you think I could use another PC on the top?

[cornstar]

That is always an option, but as many people will tell you (and disagree with me ) anemones really need MH to grow properly. I have several friends who have spent $$$ upgrading PCs to only waste their money because they ultimatly upgraded to MH. I am sure some have had success with their anemones and PCs but many choose MH for a reason. Just something to think about before spending more on PC.

 

Cheers

 

Feel free to to comment anyone...i know some will think i am wrong.

[emokid]

wow, what's the point of sand?

 

nice work

[jdav]

Originally posted by format32

Yeah you seem to have broken a ton of rules.  

Good luck in about 4 months.

 

 

If your talking about the anemone:

 

Not all anemones are created equal, and that one is a rose. From everything I have read, Rose anemones are one of the easiest species to keep and require at most 4wpg and in some cases this could be to much light. They also prefer Nitrate levels at 20ppm or less, which I have and test constantly.

 

So I'll ask again what all rules have I broken?

 

and oh yeah, thanks for wishing me luck!

[CT nano reefer]

hey boss, If money isn't that big of a deal, maybe you could just dump the power compact lighting and get a Metal Halide setup for that tank...it would be an awsome addition to the setup, and your anemone would really appreciate it in the long run..check out marine depot, or hellolights..they always got a 250w DE HQI MH setup available for around $250...I especially like the Aqua Medic Ocean light setup with the AB 20K bulb...man is it sweet!

[Cesar]

What about the micro bubbles dude? I have the same issue with my PH. Is that the same deal with you?

[jdav]

Originally posted by CT nano reefer

hey boss, If money isn't that big of a deal, maybe you could just dump the power compact lighting and get a Metal Halide setup for that tank...it would be an awsome addition to the setup, and your anemone would really appreciate it in the long run..check out marine depot, or hellolights..they always got a 250w DE HQI MH setup available for around $250...I especially like the Aqua Medic Ocean light setup with the AB 20K bulb...man is it sweet!

 

yeah, I'm thinking about taking the step, but I'm actually worried about my anemone and too much light. I took those pictures right after the light turned on and I noticed he wasn't anywhere close to where he normally was (it looked better there than where he normally is). He is usually in a spot where much less light can get to him. From everything that I have read about those little guys (and he is a rose) they don't like much more than 4wpg and they'll hide if they get more than that.

 

AND THIS IS WHY I HAVEN"T GOTTTEN A NEW LIGHT......

Here is the story about that anemone & clown. I'm really good friends with the guys who opened up a new fish store around here and they got that anemone and clown from a customer. Usually they go handpick most of their stuff but a guy brought that anemone and clown up there because the clown killed another fish for getting too close and when he tried to remove them the guy got bitten by the clown, so he brought them to the guy who runs the fish store. The guy who had it before me had a 50 gallon that only had 100w PC and both the anemone and the clown had been in his aquarium for about a year and a half. I believe that the clown and anemone were both wild caught (however bad that may be) as a pair and they haven't left each other since. That clown never ever goes more than two inches away from it. He feeds it and everything, so I don't only have to worry about one or the other I have to worry about both!

 

I really want to put more light on it so I can get some clams and money isn't really a factor, but I think He is pretty happy with what I have now so I think I am going to leave them be and let him do what he wants. If he ever for half a second looks like he isn't doing well I'll do whatever it takes to make him happy. Money is not a factor when it comes to pets (ever room in my house has hardwoods because my cat peed all over the floors..... I still have the cat).

 

HOWEVER, I did get my wife a little 10 gallon so she could have a black percula (pics soon to come!), so it may be getting a MH really soon for it:).

 

I think what will eventually happen is I am going to wind up getting a huge reef tank and putting MH on it so I can keep whatever I want. I am kind of stuck where I am at with lighting right now because of my weird anemone, but like I said I really try to treat all of my pets really good and accommodate them with whatever they like.

 

I'll see what happens in the weeks to come with that little guy and that will really determine what I am going to do as far as lighting goes, but like I said he does not like a lot of light at all. About an hour after that picture he moved right back to the same shady spot and has been their ever since.

[jdav]

Originally posted by Cesar

What about the micro bubbles dude? I have the same issue with my PH. Is that the same deal with you?

 

 

Nah, for some reason these little blue valves that are on my filter(which I only use for water circulation) that put oxygen in the water got flipped up to far and it was causing those little bubbles.

 

All I did was put them back where I had them to begin with and all that stopped.

 

To bad I don't own the camera I took those pictures with or I could show you what my tank looks like sans bubbles.

[uglybuckling]

Originally posted by jdav

So I'll ask again what all rules have I broken?

 

I post this not to force you to defend yourself (as you say, there are a lot of opinions). I have my opinions, and I've read a lot of garbage opinions that people have written about this hobby. I'm not interested in hearing that garbage quoted back as a defense....the propogation of bad information is what we try to prevent....not something I want to encourage). So yeah. I'm posting this basically because you asked. And these *are just opionions*.

 

Okay, end of disclaimer. Beginning of....harangue.

 

Rules you broke, with explanation:

 

60 pounds of live rock in a 20g is ludicrous. First there's the physical problems with the rock. It's very heavy, and you're adding that extra weight to that of the water, lights, sand, and whatever else is in your tank. I guess the structure is very stable, so it probably won't fall, but it's bloody heavy.

 

The second problem that 60+ lbs of rock presents is one that is far more serious for a reef system....it IMPEDES THE HELL OUT OF FLOW. You won't get any flow through that live rock at all, and you'll get detritus build-up like no other. This will give you algae everywhere. You're right that there are few gospel truths of marine aquarium keeping, but flow is among the few that hold true under almost all circumstances (except in deep sand beds and stuff like that, which is not what you have here).

 

1-month old tank with livestock in it. This basically amounts to cruelty to the livestock. That live rock had some die-off and your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels *have to* have risen. It's damn near impossible to get live rock from the pet store to your tank without any die-off. With 65 pounds of it, some of it at the bottom of the pile (where there's not only a lack of light, but also crushing force from the rock above) I would imagine there was quite a bit of die-off. Your fish didn't need to experience this. You could have cycled the tank without them. What are your levels like for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite? You listed nitrate as less than 20ppm, which is a start. What brand(s) of test kits are you using?

 

Anemone. Ugh...I would take this poor little guy back to the fish store til your tank is in better shape. You don't have enough light ("watts per gallon" is not how we measure light, because metal halide watts are very different from power compact watts, and light is a function of depth as well), plus your tank simply isn't mature enough for an anemone. Yeah, it's a red-bubble tipped anemone, which are among the easier anemones to keep. And Boeing 727s are among the easier passenger airplanes to fly, but you still need some training, and a little time to figure out how to do it properly. Also, FYI, when they move around the tank, that means they're not happy.

 

CORAL in an aquarium that's 1 month old, with a crazy live rock nitrate factory underneath them. Yeah, they're shrooms and zoos, among the hardier corals, which will help them stay alive awhile longer (maybe long enough for you to fix your rock), but they're never going to prosper in a tank with this kind of rock configuration.

 

Micro-bubbles everywhere. These little buggers cling to corals, anemones, live rock, and other stuff that can't shake them off (e.g. everything but fish) and kill what they cling to in the same way that exposure to air will kill corals/live rock/whatever. Bubbles have surfaces that attract hydrophobic molecules, including certain moieties of proteins that are vital to living corals/algae (including desirable coralline algaes). So yeah. Micro-bubbles are BAD. You usually wait for them to go away before you put anything in your tank. I'm glad they're gone now.

 

Things I would do to fix this:

1) do a 10% water change every couple of days til you have time to fix your rock structure. Then take most of the rubble/smaller bits out, and build a structure out of some of the larger ones. You may want to take your corals out during this process (keep 'em in a bucket) as it will stir up the tank considerably.

2) take the anemone back to the fish store. I doubt they'll take better care of him, but at least you won't have his death on your conscience.

3) Get a 130W power compact fixture, or another 65W power compact. I think 130W is about the minimum you should be playing with if you want an anemone.

4) Monitor your levels like you've got OCD. If anything starts to go wrong, do water changes.

5) Whatever you do, don't buy more livestock.

 

I really don't mean to come across as angry....I'm not pissed, just trying to help by pointing out the problems. I just think that if you want the best for your pets, you might consider doing some more research first (start at http://www.wetwebmedia.com), and being patient. There is nothing better for reef inhabitants than patience.

 

--Bucky

[jdav]

Originally posted by uglybuckling

 

60 pounds of live rock in a 20g is ludicrous.  First there's the physical problems with the rock.  It's very heavy, and you're adding that extra weight to that of the water, lights, sand, and whatever else is in your tank.  I guess the structure is very stable, so it probably won't fall, but it's bloody heavy.  

 

The second problem that 60+ lbs of rock presents is one that is far more serious for a reef system....it IMPEDES THE HELL OUT OF FLOW.  You won't get any flow through that live rock at all, and you'll get detritus build-up like no other.  This will give you algae everywhere.  You're right that there are few gospel truths of marine aquarium keeping, but flow is among the few that hold true under almost all circumstances (except in deep sand beds and stuff like that, which is not what you have here).  

 

It's Really not as much as it sounds like it would be. The flow goes through the rock from the front of them to the back. However, upon your advice I did take out about 10lbs of the so the water could run through this one spot better.

 

 

1-month old tank with livestock in it.  This basically amounts to cruelty to the livestock.  That live rock had some die-off and your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels *have to* have risen.  It's damn near impossible to get live rock from the pet store to your tank without any die-off.  With 65 pounds of it, some of it at the bottom of the pile (where there's not only a lack of light, but also crushing force from the rock above) I would imagine there was quite a bit of die-off.  Your fish didn't need to experience this. You could have cycled the tank without them.  What are your levels like for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite?  You listed nitrate as less than 20ppm, which is a start.  What brand(s) of test kits are you using?  

 

Yes, after the fact I do realize that I could have cycled the tank without the damsels. I felt really bad about it after I actually thought about what I was doing. Fortunately they lived.

 

This is the test kit I use every other day and now every day.

0,0,10 was what it was yesterday.

 

Also, If it's an consolation to you, I used pre-cured live rock.

 

 

Anemone.  Ugh...I would take this poor little guy back to the fish store til your tank is in better shape.  You don't have enough light ("watts per gallon" is not how we measure light, because metal halide watts are very different from power compact watts, and light is a function of depth as well), plus your tank simply isn't mature enough for an anemone.  Yeah, it's a red-bubble tipped anemone, which are among the easier anemones to keep.  And Boeing 727s are among the easier passenger airplanes to fly, but you still need some training, and a little time to figure out how to do it properly.  Also, FYI, when they move around the tank, that means they're not happy.  

 

Ok, I acknowledge the fact that I moved too quickly when I got the anemone.

 

CORAL in an aquarium that's 1 month old, with a crazy live rock nitrate factory underneath them.  Yeah, they're shrooms and zoos, among the hardier corals, which will help them stay alive awhile longer (maybe long enough for you to fix your rock), but they're never going to prosper in a tank with this kind of rock configuration.

 

The rock problem is in the process of being fixed.

 

Micro-bubbles everywhere.  These little buggers cling to corals, anemones, live rock, and other stuff that can't shake them off (e.g. everything but fish) and kill what they cling to in the same way that exposure to air will kill corals/live rock/whatever.  Bubbles have surfaces that attract hydrophobic molecules, including certain moieties of proteins that are vital to living corals/algae (including desirable coralline algaes).  So yeah.  Micro-bubbles are BAD.  You usually wait for them to go away before you put anything in your tank.  I'm glad they're gone now.  

 

That was like that for about 20 minutes. I noticed it right after I took the picture and fixed the problem. It was a valve that was opened but should have been shut.

 

Things I would do to fix this:  

1) do a 10% water change every couple of days til you have time to fix your rock structure.  Then take most of the rubble/smaller bits out , and build a structure out of some of the larger ones.  You may want to take your corals out during this process (keep 'em in a bucket) as it will stir up the tank considerably.  

 

I have been doing water changes every three days since the 6th day. The rock problem has already, for the most part, been taken care of. Also, If i need to move anything I have another tank.

 

2) take the anemone back to the fish store.  I doubt they'll take better care of him, but at least you won't have his death on your conscience.

 

Ok, I acknowledge the fact that I moved too quickly when I got the anemone.

 

 

3) Get a 130W power compact fixture, or another 65W power compact.  I think 130W is about the minimum you should be playing with if you want an anemone.  

 

I have another 65watt PC, he moves a lot and hides when I put it on the tank. Like I said in one of my post further up the anemone was kept in much worse conditions and lived for 1.5 years.

 

4) Monitor your levels like you've got OCD.  If anything starts to go wrong, do water changes.  

 

I do that already.

 

5) Whatever you do, don't buy more livestock.  

 

I'm wasn't planning on it.

 

I really don't mean to come across as angry....I'm not pissed, just trying to help by pointing out the problems.  I just think that if you want the best for your pets, you might consider doing some more research first (start at http://www.wetwebmedia.com), and being patient.  There is nothing better for reef inhabitants than patience.

 

You don't come across as angry at all. I just think that there is more to the story that I should have clarified before I jumped to the defensive, so really it's my fault for not saying what I should have said to begin with. My 20 gallon is a part of a well established tank. Basically, I got a part of a bigger tank and put it in the 20.

 

Again after reading more of my posts they did seem a little defensive. I'm easy to jump to guard on things like that. It's really easy to leave out the details when you are expressing your thoughts on an internet message board.

 

I assure you though I am taking very good care of the tank. I check everything religiously and do water changes the same way.

 

Thanks for your concern and your advice!

[jdav]

here's an update of my tank at around 4 & 1/2 months.

[jdav]

1 more

[jdav]

a closeup of my star polyp

[jdav]

zoos

[WetWilly]

so youve broken or bent every golden rule in reef keeping and your tank looks like that....in 4 months. At 4 months everyone else that follows "the rules" in just STARTING to consider adding stock. Wow. I mean really Wow. Like WOW. In a 20 high no less? Uncanny. Can I see a few sequential pics along the way? like month 2, when everyone else is contemplating suicide over their alage problems, or month three when the cyano dies off but the hair begins? just curious.