ricknbecky Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I am buying my fiancee ( who is studying Marine Biology ) a 12 gallon ( eclipse 12 ) tank for Christmas... I need help and suggestions as to: Best place to buy it... Where to get upgraded lights ( I have read enough here and in books to KNOW I need PCs to have good life ) To biowheel or NOT biowheel.... Would it be cheaper to get a glass aquairum and do all the mods on it vs an eclipse? What addons would be recommended for the tank? colorful fish ( 1 or 2 ) for the tank that would be compatible.... And locals questions - Best place to purchase live rock ( tampa bay salt water? ) Fish? SPS? Link to comment
Ilove2ride Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Personally, I like how Eclipse look and work. 1-2 fish you could get- a pair of False Perculas, a Banggai Cardinalfish, some kind of basslet, a fire goby, neon goby... personally, I would get a pair of clowns. Link to comment
NaNO ReeFiN Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 SKIP THE ECLIPSE TANK It's not worth your time and effort, get a glass tank.. those acrylic eclipse tanks scratch quite easily and in a couple months, you'll be staring at scratches instead of the beauty of your nano reef. Link to comment
tinyreef Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 i'm with nano reefin, i had the eclipse six and finally tossed it last year. get glass (don't get me wrong, it'll scratch too but not as easily) get the all-glass's 7g. it looks sharp! the lady'll think you spent a fortune! (when you didn't, heh heh) only drawback on the 7g is the difficulty to upgrade the lights imo. some people here have the 7g take a look in the members' tank section. Link to comment
luv2jeep Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I have had 4 nano's in the past 2 years: 1. Eclipse System 6 (sold to upgrade to 12) 2. Eclipse System 12 (sold for more "travel-friendly" tank) 3. Custom 7.5G 12" cube (sold for glass!) 4. 10G glass aquarium with Eclipse 1 hood OK, you'll hear some people talk about Eclipse biowheels and removing them. I ran my 6 gallon for 1-1/2 years with a biowheel and 2-13W PC's. I took corals from my 75 and had growth 4x than I did in the 75. Never had an algae problem, never lost any animals! But, the acrylic scratches VERY EASY!!! For the same money, get a 10-gallon glass aquarium (~$9) and an Eclipse 1 hood (~$70). Several online sites sell the Custom SeaLife 32W retrofit for the Eclipse. I found the best price at: http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com As for add-ons, a good submersible heater (Ebo Jager, Pro-Heat, Tronic, etc.) and that's about it! FWIW - I have run several different reef tanks including 6, 10, 12, 55, and 75-gallon with about 5 different filter combinations and the Eclipse wins hands-down just for simplicity. It is not the latest technology, or the most expensive, or ideal ... but it works great as-is! Enjoy! PS - I'll post my web address tomorrow evening with my new Eclipse 1 setup pics and live webcam. -Craig Link to comment
Fishiebusiness Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 my eclipse 6 cracked in 5 places. Replaced with AGA 7 gallon. Get glass, much easier to scrape coralline off of when it comes to it. Link to comment
gobies Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 If you must go with an Eclipse hood: Instead of getting the 32w upgrade kit, you can get an Eclipse 1 "Twin Light" hood with two bulbs, which will give you 30w: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...d=6&pCatId=3867 You'd still probably want to upgrade, but at least you can put it off for a while. Or, An Even Better Idea: Ask Glazer, Dave, or one of the other "locals" to build you a canopy/hood for a 10g tank. Then get the DIY lighting kit & bulbs for whatever you want to include in the tank. That way you only pay for lighting once! Link to comment
ajroahkni Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I agree w/ the other posters. Glass is better/cheaper. you can be a LOT more creative w/ glass. Plus, a 10g glass is cheaper than a 6g eclipse setup. And, a 20g glass setup is cheaper than a 12g eclipse setup. You're still going to have to get quality lights regardless. Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I actually sent you a PM earlier, but it basically states the same info as luv2jeep has mentioned. One thing that I didn't mention was the bio-wheel (purposely, as this is a touch subject around here, and subject to heated debate). I run it, and have been running it for over a year, without any problems. I also just simply like the simplicity and looks of the hood. The section of the Eclipse 1 hood that allows for the "filter cartridges" is my favorite part! As it allows a place for chem filtration when needed! Also there was some discussion about the idea that running the bio-wheel while running a surface skimmer could create problems (and it makes a lot of sense!).... ffexpress.com is selling the 32W CSL retro for $39.99 right now... I was planning on upgrading my lighting late October, but decided to do it NOW because of the price on the light!! -just a thought to all of you who are looking at buying one in the near future! Also the Eclipse 1 hood has an out-put from the filter section that will perfectly line up with water level when the tank is filled to its max. When it begins to send bubbles into the tank, I top off (add freshwater to the tank, to replace the water that has evaporated). Honestly, I really like my Eclipse hood... It was perfect for my budget at the time that I started the tank (didn't have the $$ for serious lights), and was easy to modify and up-grade! I would like to add a powerhead to the list of add ons... a rio 50 or a rio 90 will be plenty of power (when combined with the standard pump) on this set-up -all of this is also true of the Eclipse 12 system... however, I would be very afraid of it scratching (but have known people to keep acrylics and never have a problem with this!). Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Ok here is a good follow-up question.... ( and THANKS for all of this help a local LFS pointed me to you guys as he said he refused to help someone setup a nano as too many things could go wrong ( man, I LOVE a challenge ) 12 gallons ( we aren't crazy to go with a 2 - 5 gallon like you guys - maybe later ) I see WILDLY fluxuating light requirements.... All the books I read say 3-6 wpg... with a 12 gallon that breaks to 36 - 72.... Problem I see is 36 watts is too low ( from what I have read ) to do most corals... If I was to do 2 PCs one 10k and one A3 ( I hope I am getting wordings correct ) Would that be enough light for a 12? Link to comment
anthony812 Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 In My LFS, they are selling the Eclips6 for $49.00 and the 12 for $99 IMO, it doesn't matter what you use, glass/acrylic, as long as its an acrylic algae scraper..hahah.. I personally hate the Eclips system, It will be much cheaper to go with a 15 gallon AGA ($15), 2 used PH ($20), Whisper Econ HOB ($10) (for carbon/phosphate treatment and they are blowing those out in LFS for $9.99), 2x36W PC ($70), and that is a much nice setup so maybe a little more price, you can upgrade the lighting to 2x55W PC is you want cuz the tank is 24"x12"x12" a perfect size for a nano reef! Long enough and not too tall. Link to comment
luv2jeep Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Lighting never was an "exact" science for reefs. 32W will be fine for a 12" deep tank like Eclipse 12. Especially if you go with a Power Compact (PC) retro-fit. Watts is a misleading measure of brightness. Watts is related to voltage and current in the lamp. Watt for Watt, PC's put out about 20% more light than an equivalent flourescent. To properly measure lighting, you should use lumens IMHO! Just to show it works, I kept an Ultra Maxima in a 12" deep nano with 2-13W PC's! He never lost coloration and never was "sick" ... until my Bohemoth Hermit got him one night! Needless to say, that hermit took flight lessons across my front lawn! Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 First - I appreciate all the help ( and quick help no less - that I am getting ) I am strongly thinking of going with the All Glass tank purly from a price point.... I see lots of you folks doing DIY hoods.... I am not a good wood-worker ( but my father-in-law to be is.... ) I am a good electrician however.... Anyone willing to share thoughts on a bulb combination and best type of PC ballast to use? 2x55 10k and an A3? I want to wire up the lights so that I get a dawn/day/dusk setup.... and now having spent a few days around here.... add a moonlight cycle with a light blue or white LED setup.... maybe even a few leds for stars ( ok - I MAY be going overboard ) As far as filitration.... just a regular back-of-the-tank with some kind of fiber in it ( any particular brands that you have found useful ) Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 or a refugium ? or both? I want a low maintenace tank.... just water and ph/salenity/alk cleaner crew to do MOST of the cleaning - live rock to do MOST of the filtartion I also want a clean looking tank.... not a jumble of wires and tunes going god knows where I mean: 12-15 gallon tank 2x32 light (1-10k 1-A3) maybe 2x55 a power head ( do the moving head ones wear out quickly?) and a small power filter Will that be enough? I know some of you have every gizmo under the sun ( including the sum in some cases ) But I don't want my 1st tank to go overboard.... or overbudget Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 You can be successful with 2x55watt PC lighting on a 15 gallon tank. When you buy your lighting kit, make sure it comes with a good reflector (or reflectors.) You want more light in the water and less in the hood! I'd recommend the kits from ahshpply.com, but there are certainly other good ones on the market. Choosing your bulbs is trickier. Some people are going to hate me for this, but I think that 50%10K/50%actinic looks bad (way too blue for my taste) On my 2 bulb tanks I have 1 6500K daylight and one 50/50 actinic/10K bulb. I think that the combination of three different spectrums looks great. Also a whiter light overall. Interestingly enought, I'm putting together a 15 gallon tank 2x55w tank tonight. I fell in love with a 1-inch hippo tang who needs a place to grow up a little before he can swim with the big boys. By the time he's ready to go the tank will be cycled with LS/LR and ready to change over to nano reef. Eventual goal is a 2-firefish +LPS population. This is a big step for me, my smallest reef yet! Many thanks to denizens of this message board many geat ideas and information! Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 AHS looks to be where I will buy my light parts - Should I add an intake - outtake for heat in my hood? Should I get a piece of LEXAN or PLEXI on the bottom? And for the other question - do I need a refgium or could I make do with a power filter (millenium1000)? and a power head or 2 (do the rotating heads wear out as quick as i think they would?) Link to comment
printerdown01 Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 A few things: 1) Refugium: if you don't want to add one you certainly don't have to! My tank ran perfectly without it... I did it solely so that I could watch all the little critters crawl around (lame yes, but quite entertaining, lol). 2)Filters: you can totally do a tank that runs without any filter what-so-ever. Make sure you have a powerhead that blows "across" the surface. If you do go with the "natural system" make sure you do a DSB and have plenty of LR. However, I prefer having some sort of filter. This is primarily because I know that I have somewhere to stick chem filtration when the need arises (i.e. a hair algae out break -which is one of the most frustrating things you will ever have to deal with. This can greatly be reduced [if not eradicated] by using a phosphate remover). 3)Lighting: this is one of the most confusing things for newbies, simply because EVERYONE has different opinions on this topic. It is in fact rare to find 2 people that WILL actually agree. So without giving any of my opinions I will give you a link. This is a list of corals which HAVE been successfully kept under the stated lighting scheme and tank size. I compiled it a while back for a newbie on this site, and have found it an easy reference that cuts through all the biases, as it reflects what has in fact been done. You can most certainly go over the stated lighting amount. I'm promise your corals won't complain ! link to list -The alignment used to be much better... I don't know what happened (and haven’t gotten around to fixing it) certainly no evidence that someone has tinkered with anything.... oh well.... *Later thoughts: K.I.S.S. ...the more complex the tank, the more things that can go wrong -this is especially true for newbies... as you become more experienced you will collect more and more gadgets that will make your tank better and your life more complex. In order to make a low maintenance tank you have to create a simple one . You are right the PHs that rotate do break quite often. In a 12 gallon tank a couple of Rio 50s (or any other really small PHs) will work just fine. If you go with the 2x55W on a 12, do add a fan. -by the way, thought I would take the time to complemet you: You are one of the most well researched newbies I have ever seen!! Very impressive! You could have fooled me and said you have been doing nanos for a year and are looking at up-grading tanks ... Keep it up!! Quick question (maybe I over looked it in a previous post): What are you looking at keeping in the tank? Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 24, 2002 Author Share Posted September 24, 2002 This first tank will be in the living room ( away from any windows) (( I was thinking about puting it in my bookcase - I know it can handle the weight as I built the bookcase)) but that would take out 2 shevles and even at that be hard to do stuff around and behind it Thought about modifying the entertainment center i built... or building a custom satnd to go along with the custom hood.... I want to do one for my office about a year after I start the 1st one maybe a bit bigger or smaller.... Thanks for the compliment... I have a nasty habit of reading things and listening and asking LOTS of questions before I spend $500 at the drop of a hat.... Guess I am lucky to have so many people here who have made the mistakes and can help others learn from them And.... its nice to live less than half an hour from Tampa Bay Salt Water Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 24, 2002 Author Share Posted September 24, 2002 oh one other question..... Seems lots of you folks use AHS for light kits... do their Kits allow for one bulb on at a time? I have a computer program where I could set one to come on a little earlier than the other ( via X10 ) Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 You can run their lights one bulb at a time if you have them set up correctly. When you see the description of the kits for sale, take a look at how many ballasts are included. If each bulb has a separate ballast, you can easily switch them independently. Naturally all of the "one bulb" kits have their own ballast, so no problem there. Some multi-bulb kits (2x32watt & 2x55watt) are cheaper precisely because they include just one ballast that is capable of running multiple bulbs. This is not a flaw, jus a way to save money if you want to! If you don't like non-independent switching, just order miltiple one-bulb kits, so you'll have independent ballasts for each bulb. Alternatively, with 1 ballast/2 bulb setups, you can arrange it so that the main switch turns on the ballast, then put another switch in to interrupt the connection between the ballast and one of the bulbs. Now the main switch will turn on one bulbs, and closing the interrupt switch will turn on the second bulb. NOTE: there may be some multi-bulb ballasts on the market that can't/shouldn't be run with only one bulb... but I haven't used any. Check with the guys at AH supply to see if they think it's a good idea. Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 25, 2002 Author Share Posted September 25, 2002 Last things before I whip out the plastic..... Filters.... I want someting small.... unobtrusive..... and provides me a place to put a chemical filtrate at some point.... Any suggestions ( for a 15 gallon ) as thats what I have bought.... Powerheads.... 2 SMALL power heads.... but problem..... placement? both in the back pointing twoards each other?? (Don't wanna make a whirlpool) Lights.... I am still undecided about WHERE I will go to get my lights... can anyone give me a reason to go with one VS another.... you all have been adimate about who to AVOID.... I am thinking (2) 1x32s ( so I can control lighting cycle) 1 50/50 and 1 10k bulb for now ( if the color looks bad Ill switch later ) Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 If you want a HOB (hang on back) filter with a lot of room for media, go with one of the Hagen Aqua Clear models. They are low priced and very reliable. The model 150 or 200 would be more than sufficient. Instead of power heads I prefer to use small pumps. Actual "Power Heads" are designed to attach to an undergravel filter so they have little or no intake strainer. Instead of a power head(s), try two micro-jet pumps. They have a small, unobtrusive sponge prefilter, they are smaller than power heads, and they attach with suction cups. With one at each end of the tank, bothsuctioned to the back glass pointed forward, you get good movement with no whirlpool. If you prefer powerheads, try small (201 model) Hagen Aqua Clears, they are more reliable than others I won't mention (for fear of hurt feelings.) Make sure you buy the optional intake strainer "Quick Filters" so you don't suck up your fish! I still recommend the ahsupply light kits, they're very good and the quality of the reflector is superb. If you want independent switching go with 2 of the 1x32watt kits, but I think this is overrated (one 32 watt bulb is hardly a gently dawn-type wakeup!) I would suggest the 2x32watt kit to save money. If you want a prebuilt lighting hood there are some nice ones available from some company with a name that begind with a "V" (sorry for the memory lapse!) I was impressed by the look and quality but I don't own one... anyone know the name and/or have more info??? Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 25, 2002 Author Share Posted September 25, 2002 What brand of pumps would you use? and how are they size wise in relation to say a RIO50? Link to comment
MrConclusion Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 I like Aquarium Systems "Mini Jet" or "Micro Jet" pumps. They have none of the bulky (and unnecessary) attachments designed for an undergravel filter, cheap, and very reliable. The Micro-Jets are very small and have a little sponge prefilter that is a good fish-saver. The manufacturers website is: http://www.aquariumsystems.com/frames1.htm click on the "Pumps" link and scroll down to see all powerheads and pumps. Link to comment
ricknbecky Posted September 25, 2002 Author Share Posted September 25, 2002 Ok..... what about placement? one at top back left and one bottom back right? Pointing twoards each other?? also I may STILL add a millenium 1000 so I have a place for mechanical filtration Link to comment
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