Help me save golden torch

[ChilledReefer]

I need help saving my golden torch. I had an algae outbreak and did a 70% water change last night and cleaned out as much algae as I could off rock. This torch has some algae on the stank and right up to the rim. Tentacles are not extending even after water change. 
 

What can I do to correct this? Dip it, take tweezers and pull scrape off algae or what?

[seabass]

What are your tank's current alkalinity, phosphate, and nitrite numbers?  And how stable have they been?  Do you ever feed it?

 

I find that messing with it rarely makes it better.

[ChilledReefer]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

What are your tank's current alkalinity, phosphate, and nitrite numbers?  And how stable have they been?  Do you ever feed it?

 

I find that messing with it rarely makes it better.

So I had been overdue for a water change and I did that on Monday evening. Since then the parameters are all stable. I even scooped and raked out some of the hair algae from the sand and rocks. I have fed it once or twice but read where they get most of their food from light and the water column.  Should I just give it a few days before trying to dip it?

 

Thanks, 

 

[The Reefing Reefer]

What are your specific parameters, pre and post water change? Algae outbreak suggests there was fluctuations, most likely NO3/PO4. 
 

You also said long overdue water change - how long had it been, and how do you import/export nutrients? With a nano tanks fluctuations are drastic due to tank volume, if you hadn’t done a water change in quite some time and did 70% could have shocked everything - even if you reset to normal levels.

[seabass]

24 minutes ago, ChilledReefer said:

I have fed it once or twice but read where they get most of their food from light and the water column.  Should I just give it a few days before trying to dip it?

Dip it in what?

 

For LPS alkalinity stability is important.  Swings can cause some of these problems.  Also low nutrient levels can even be more problematic than high levels.

[patback]

Algae on the skeleton is not hurting the coral. Improper chemistry levels are. Like the above Comments say, I would not touch it any more and instead focus on keeping level parameters. THEN you can start picking at the algae. Algae growth is using up the excess nutrients in your tank and unless it is an obscene amount, I would starve it out before I tried picking or scrubbing any more. 

[ChilledReefer]

Thank you both. I think the parameters being off is hopefully what caused it. I will keep on top of the water changes and test more frequently.  I also have some red sea reef nutrients, reef roids, and kalk on the way.    I won't scrub or dip it in coral dip. 

 

 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, ChilledReefer said:

I think the parameters being off is hopefully what caused it.

Did you test the water and find some numbers that were not quite right?   Which ones?

[ChilledReefer]

14 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Did you test the water and find some numbers that were not quite right?   Which ones?

Yes salinity was a bit high like 127 or 128 and phosphates as well. The others were ok.  I did a 70% water change and now they are back in range.  I'll keep on top of them now. 

[mcarroll]

Salinity being high is interesting....do you know why it was so high?  Having a mystery is not good.

 

Phosphates being "high" is not a problem, but a protective benefit.  What was your number from testing phosphate?

 

For now, the salinity swing is the more interesting clue regarding what's wrong with the torch coral.

[ChilledReefer]

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Salinity being high is interesting....do you know why it was so high?  Having a mystery is not good.

 

Phosphates being "high" is not a problem, but a protective benefit.  What was your number from testing phosphate?

 

For now, the salinity swing is the more interesting clue regarding what's wrong with the torch coral.

The salinity was high as I have been gone a few days and the ATO go low. Evaporation was the culprit. I also need to get in the habit of testing more frequent during the week. All the other corals look fine, just the torch. I'll have to get the PH number

[mcarroll]

19 hours ago, ChilledReefer said:

The salinity was high as I have been gone a few days and the ATO go low. Evaporation was the culprit.

That happens....make sure your ATO reservoir isn't too small.  (But I don't recommend over-sizing either....it creates the potential for flooding.)

 

I kinda doubt that caused the coral issue – if you had measured something like ≥1.029 then that would be more suspect.

 

BTW, how are you measuring salinity?

 

I'm still curious about the actual phosphate levels as well as all your other test numbers.  👍

[mcarroll]

Also, check out this image from the following article:  "Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates"

H = high

L = low

N = Nitrate

P = Phosphate

 

Notice the pics that are more similar to your coral, and what conditions those pics represent.   The question is whether your tests for N and P match with the pictured info.  👍

 

(Low "P" is always bad.....Low "P" along with High "N" is worse.)

 

However, alkalinity dips can cause this as well....so we really need all your test numbers.  👍🙏

[ChilledReefer]

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That happens....make sure your ATO reservoir isn't too small.  (But I don't recommend over-sizing either....it creates the potential for flooding.)

 

I kinda doubt that caused the coral issue – if you had measured something like ≥1.029 then that would be more suspect.

 

BTW, how are you measuring salinity?

 

I'm still curious about the actual phosphate levels as well as all your other test numbers.  👍

I'm measuring salinity with the standard refractometer. I had a guy at a local reef store calibrate it for me to make sure it was giving the right readings.  I will let you know what the phosphate reads this evening. 

 

[ChilledReefer]

Ok I tested what I could with the kit I have. PH is between 8.2 and 8.4 Ammonia is at 0 ppm and Nitrate is at 0ppm. 
 

Alkalinity is at 1.25.  
 

 

[mcarroll]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, ChilledReefer said:

Ok I tested what I could with the kit I have. PH is between 8.2 and 8.4 Ammonia is at 0 ppm and Nitrate is at 0ppm. 
 

We'll, 0 Nitrates isn't bad per se but without knowing your phosphate level I think we can assume it's bad for the moment at least.....note the picture for "LN/LP"....aka Low Nitrate/Low Phosphate.....quite similar to your coral.

 

On 10/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, ChilledReefer said:

Alkalinity is at 1.25.  

The number and the unit....

 

Are you measuring in meq/L or which units?

 

If that number is accurate in any scale (dKH, meq/L, ppm) then it's catastrophically low.   Are you sure that number is correct?

 

On 10/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, ChilledReefer said:

 

You mentioned phosphates in a post before, but looks like maybe you meant pH?  (pH = potential of hydrogen)

 

If possible, get your phosphates tested at the LFS (or pick up a kit for it if you want).

 

If you are doing anything to filter the tank, I would stop until you have good test numbers and a good plan in your pocket.   Keep working on that algae as well.

 

Use a technique just like this guy shows in this vid.....work in a small area about 1 or 2 square inches, using your fingers like tweezers, until that small area is TOTALLY clear of algae. Then move on to another area.  Don't overwork yourself and get frustrated.  And DO try to hit that algae every day.  Make sure you're adding 1-2 snails after you do a round of cleaning.  If you see algae re-grow, then you know you need to repeat the cleaning and add another 1-2 snails.

 

 

(Ignore the other advice he gives.....doesn't apply to your situation.)

[LazyFish]

Api kits are not the best I would go with another brand. They seem to do ok at first but I've noticed they decline in accuracy. Like they tend to go bad or something even when not expired. I got burned with those twice before switching to salifert.

When was the refractomiter calibrated? Be sure to periodicly check and calibrate it you can use rodi water. They tend to get off after a while getting jiggled and bumped I suspect is what causes it.

[ChilledReefer]

Thanks for everyone's help. I ordered the Salifert Calcium, Mag, and Alk kits and used it to get the following:

 

Calcium- spoon missing so wasn't able to do this one =( will see if my LFS has an extra. 

 

Alkalinity was 0.46 or 8.3 

 

Magnesium was 0 or  1500  the solution didn't turn to blue until the very last drop in the syringe.

 

 

[mcarroll]

12 hours ago, ChilledReefer said:

Thanks for everyone's help. I ordered the Salifert Calcium, Mag, and Alk kits and used it to get the following:

 

Calcium- spoon missing so wasn't able to do this one =( will see if my LFS has an extra. 

Dang!  Keep us posted.

 

12 hours ago, ChilledReefer said:

Alkalinity was 0.46 or 8.3 

👍

12 hours ago, ChilledReefer said:

Magnesium was 0 or  1500  the solution didn't turn to blue until the very last drop in the syringe.

Means >1500 ppm.   If you want to know the actual number, you can dilute your water sample by 50% and re-run the test....then double the result.   Half as accurate, but still good enough for the purpose.

 

High magnesium isn't gonna hurt anything on its own....but it does raise the question as to whether it being so high is a mystery....or if you have an idea why it might be so high.

 

Phosphate!  Phosphate!  Phosphate!   😉 

[ChilledReefer]

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Dang!  Keep us posted.

 

👍

Means >1500 ppm.   If you want to know the actual number, you can dilute your water sample by 50% and re-run the test....then double the result.   Half as accurate, but still good enough for the purpose.

 

High magnesium isn't gonna hurt anything on its own....but it does raise the question as to whether it being so high is a mystery....or if you have an idea why it might be so high.

 

Phosphate!  Phosphate!  Phosphate!   😉 

Thanks, I'm getting some phosphate treatment  right now. Got a bag of chemi blue pure to put in and change the water again tonight. 

[seabass]

30 minutes ago, ChilledReefer said:

Thanks, I'm getting some phosphate treatment  right now. Got a bag of chemi blue pure to put in and change the water again tonight. 

I believe the concern was that phosphate might be too low; and that mcarroll was looking for phosphate test results.

 

Chemi-Pure Blue contains phosphate reducing resin, which may or may not be helpful depending on your phosphate levels and input.

 

[ChilledReefer]

38 minutes ago, seabass said:

I believe the concern was that phosphate might be too low; and that mcarroll was looking for phosphate test results.

 

Chemi-Pure Blue contains phosphate reducing resin, which may or may not be helpful depending on your phosphate levels and input.

 

OK I'll just get a new test and run it to see where the levels are. 

[ChilledReefer]

I want to thank you all for your awesome assistance during my Golden Torch's brave battle to hang on these last few weeks.  Alas, it has given up the ghost and now sways in that shimmering coral reef up yonder....  I will miss it dearly (it was expensive as hell) but will learn from this newbie mistake that could have been avoided.

 

In honor of "goldie" I'm tearing down the nano 20 gallon and starting over. No powder sand this time, and starting the cycle over that will run for  a few months with no lights on until I'm sure it's complete.  With the reef gods as my witness, I'll never do that again.

 

=(