Chloroquine phosphate for ich, timeline and fish appetites during treatment. Also, ich sterilization on surfaces.

[Tired]

I ordered a brown clown goby from LA's Diver's Den, and he's come in with ich. Great. He also has a sunken belly, and doesn't seem to want to eat. I've added a few amphipods to the treatment tank in hopes that he'll snack on them, but I don't know if he's taken any. He's definitely not taking mysis or pellets. 

 

I have some chloroquine phosphate I want to use to treat him. He doesn't seem to be in bad shape right now, as far as the ich- just a scattering of spots, probably brought on by the stress of shipping. No flashing, no heavy breathing. Should I wait a few days and try to get him eating, or should I start off right away? Is the medication likely to damage his appetite? Part of the reason I bought from Diver's Den in the first place is because clown gobies can be tricky to get eating, and he's meant to have been eating before they shipped him out. 

 

Humblefish's guide says to treat fish with CP for 10 days, then transfer them into a separate QT tank and observe for 2-4 weeks. Trouble is, I don't have a separate QT system. Would a 100% water change be enough to keep him in the same tank?

 

If not, is there any way to kill all ich on the various surfaces of an aquarium, canister filter (with no media), and heaters in a day or two? I could put him in a big bucket for a couple days. So far, my plan for sterilizing ich away is to rinse the tank with freshwater and leave it outside for 2 days, so it'll get dry and also quite hot from being in the Texas sun. I also plan to put the canister filter and heaters outside, with the canister filter running tap water through itself, for 2 days. That seems like it should be pretty lethal to any ich in any crevices, since it can't stand fresh water, without risking any bleach or whatnot hanging out in crevices and getting back into my fish. 

 

Or is my best bet just to treat for 24 days straight? I'd prefer him to be in medicated water for a minimal amount of time, so I can add amphipods and hopefully let him eat whenever he wants to eat. Since I can't put him in my nice bug-filled tank, I'd like to bring the bugs to him, but I know the CP will probably kill amphipods. 

 

"healthiest marine fish available anywhere", my foot. 

[Tired]

He's still not eating. Looks to be in okay body condition aside from the sunken stomach, but he's definitely not eating. There's an amphipod living behind the heater he's hiding behind, two inches from his face. Uneaten. 

 

I could really use some advice on this little guy. I want him eating! Almost tempted to see if my LFS has any really cheap acro frags in the "tiny bits we accidentally broke off other corals" tank, but I don't know if brown clown gobies (I think this one's a five-lined clown goby) eat acros. 

[Humblefish]

How large is he? I've had terrible luck with those tiny clown gobies that usually arrive emaciated. You can try frozen calanus, or what I would do is call LA and ask to speak with someone working in DD husbandry. Ask them exactly what do they feed their clown gobies, since all specimens are supposed to be eating prepared foods prior to being sold / shipped out.

 

I wouldn't use any medications on this fish until you see him eating. If you are confident he has Ich only, I would use TTM: 

 

[Humblefish]

You can also try Oyster Feast or live baby brine shrimp. I've saved some really small clown gobies by feeding that.

[debbeach13]

+1 on live baby brine shrimp has worked for me on any fish that does eat. 

[Tired]

He's about an inch and a quarter long, so not quite teeny-tiny (by goby standards), and I don't think he's emaciated yet. His profile is still rounded from the side, not jagged like I've seen in some pictures of really sad ones. 

I'll see if I can get some live BBS, and maybe see if a little dash of Reef Roids will at least get his attention from the smell. How small should the food be? I'm used to my trimma goby, who'll tackle mysis the size of his head, but clown gobies have pretty big heads and pretty small mouths. 

 

I'm fairly confident he only has ich. He has fewer spots than he did on first arrival, and I don't see any dust. Google says velvet gives infected fish a "rusty brownish color", which... he already has, because he's a brown clown goby. Also, he's not dead, and it seems like velvet is prone to killing fish really fast. 

 

So, I guess it's time to scare the poor guy every few days for a couple weeks. At least it's only a couple weeks- if he can make it that long, my tank is full of pods and things for him to eat. Heck, he's welcome to the encrusting montipora, at this point, though I don't have much. 

 

About cleaning the tanks, exactly how should I do that? I see that it says to use bleach or vinegar, but I'm having a hard time finding anything conclusive online about what will kill ich. If I wipe the equipment down with vinegar straight from the bottle, will that do it? And how long do I let it dry afterward? 

How do I clean a pump entirely? Or am I better off using airstones and just replacing them and the tubing every time? 

While I'm at it, how do I clean a canister filter of marine ich? If I just leave it pumping tap water for a week, will that do the trick? 

 

I'm seriously starting to think that clown gobies just should not be collected, period. So, so many "my clown goby wouldn't eat and eventually starved" threads. Maybe we should only have captive-bred ones in the hobby. 

 

There's a picture of him in my other thread. That's at least not emaciated, right? 

 

[Tired]

Tried garlic-soaked mysis and garlic-soaked small pellets, no dice. Picking up a microworm culture to try next. 

 

 

[Humblefish]

On 5/23/2022 at 12:08 PM, Tired said:

About cleaning the tanks, exactly how should I do that? I see that it says to use bleach or vinegar, but I'm having a hard time finding anything conclusive online about what will kill ich. If I wipe the equipment down with vinegar straight from the bottle, will that do it? And how long do I let it dry afterward? 

How do I clean a pump entirely? Or am I better off using airstones and just replacing them and the tubing every time? 

While I'm at it, how do I clean a canister filter of marine ich? If I just leave it pumping tap water for a week, will that do the trick? 

Bleach sterilizes, but vinegar only sanitizes. Either way, I recommend a 3 day drying period (I like to blow a fan over everything) before reusing anything. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

[Tired]

That might be a little tricky, since I only have 2 sets of equipment and I have to transfer the fish every less-than-72-hours. Can I speed it up by putting things in the sun? I'm in Texas, and the sun here doesn't kid around. 

 

Would putting a bleached heater in a bucket with water and a lot of dechlorinator for a day get the bleach taken care of? Since the bleach is chlorine. 

 

And how much bleach do I use, in what way? I tried looking it up, and all I'm getting are a lot of results saying "use bleach", no further details. 10% bleach and soaking for 15min? That's what I do with bird feeders, but I don't know if it'll kill ich. 

[Humblefish]

On 5/24/2022 at 9:27 PM, Tired said:

Can I speed it up by putting things in the sun? I'm in Texas, and the sun here doesn't kid around. 

Most likely yes 👍

 

I think a full day drying out in direct sunlight ought to do it.

[Tired]

Good to know, thanks. I really appreciate the help. 

 

Great news: he's eating! I finally got some BBS hatched, and he's eating them! They have to go directly in front of his face, poor little guy doesn't really seem to have the energy to go after them, but he's eating! 

I 

I set up a little flashlight outside the tank (not quite as bright as it looks in this picture), to lure the BBS over to him. I shut off the pump, so they won't get blown around. There's a black trim around the bottom of the tank, so it's not directly in his eyes, just shining over the top.

I figure, in a couple days, I can lure this lot away, slurk 'em all out, and dump in more nutritious ones. I put a load in, since it's not like they're gonna rot, and I wanted to be sure he has plenty of easy food. I want him eating as much as I can get him to eat.

 

How long is it safe to leave the pump off and let him get easy food? He's only in a few gallons of water, but also, he's pretty tiny. I'd like to let him eat for a few hours. 

 

I might set up a brine shrimp tank to put all the uneaten ones in. I can't put them in my reef to get eaten, since they're contaminated now, and I feel bad just letting them die in the sink drain when I toss out all that water. Either I'll humanely euthanize them with clove oil, or I'll set up a little tank with a bubbler and keep 'em. Anyone know how many adult brine shrimp you can have in a given tank? I know sea monkeys are often stocked pretty densely in those little bitty tank things. 

...hm, a bonus of keeping the adults would be that I could get more fresh eggs. I have plenty, but still, more wouldn't hurt. 

 

Lesson learned: if a fish isn't eating the day after being picked up, get BBS going. I had to get the supplies, but now that I have the supplies, I can get them hatched pretty quickly. 

 

Additional lesson learned: the amount of eggs that the kit tells you to hatch is an amount intended for someone with a swarm of baby fish. I did not need to hatch NEARLY this many BBS. This is a ludicrous number of BBS for one fish. Except maybe if it was an anchovy or some other relatively large filter-feeder. 

(I know anchovies aren't very large, but they're a lot bigger than the other fish that eat BBS-sized foods.)

 

Bonus picture: a moth trap that hatches brine shrimp. It's on the balcony because I don't like pump/bubble noises, in a tank of water with a heater, and with the only light I could easily find while setting it up in a hurry. That's a plant light made for growing light-hungry plants indoors. It's pretty bright. I trapped over a dozen small moths, which all wound up floating in the water, alive, because it's tap water in the tank and not salt water. I dumped them out. I'll rig some sort of foil lid for the tank tonight so as not to entrap more moths. 

 

I got this free-standing hatchery thing, because my family doesn't drink soda, and as such we don't have any soda bottles in the house. The instructions weren't very good, and the picture on the box didn't help, but it does work. I hatched significantly fewer eggs than it suggested, and I still got WAY too many shrimp. 

[Tired]

I think he got tired of the light. 

(Photo taken by holding the flashlight at another angle for a clear look at him.)

 

Planning to continue this flashlight-baiting thing tomorrow. I'll shut off the pump for an hour or so, add the flashlight to lure the shrimp over, and let him hopefully eat. Since he's not actively seeking out food, I want to try to make sure there's a shrimp in front of his face whenever he wants to eat. Maybe in a few days he'll feel good enough to hop up and catch food, instead of it having to pretty much bump into his nose. 

 

Hopefully this gives him enough energy to make it. I'll happily hatch shrimp daily until I can get him into my tank, and for awhile past that if it's needed. I mean, obviously I want to get him eating prepared foods, and sustaining himself off all the tasty bugs in my tank, but I'm just glad to have him eating. 

 

Bit ironic to have spent more on the hatchery thing (including pump) and eggs than I did on the actual fish, though. 

[Tired]

He now has a nice, full belly of orange. I have another batch of BBS hatching out now, and will lure away the old ones and feed new ones in the morning. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

Wishing a speedy recovery for the little guy. 🌺

[Humblefish]

@Tired I would limit his exposure to direct light, at least until symptoms clear up. Indirect or ambient lighting from a lamp or nearby window is fine. Sick fish, especially if he has Velvet, do not like direct overhead lighting.

[Tired]

Good to know. I tend to operate under the assumption that fish don't like bright, unavoidable light in any cases. 

 

The only overhead light he's getting on a regular basis is the ambient room lighting. I've been holding a flashlight over him once a day to check on him. The flashlight I'm using to lure the shrimp is a tiny penlight that's a lot weaker in person than it looks in the photo, and is shining over his head, not directly on him. He's been hanging out inside that bit of half-pipe, so he's protected from it shining directly at him. Is it still likely to be a problem?

 

Velvet would probably have gotten much worse by now, right? He still has about the same number of spots, maybe a couple fewer, and there's none of that really fine dust that seems to be in a lot of pictures of bad velvet. 

[Tired]

Considering I just found him sitting in the flashlight beam, presumably to hunt shrimp, I don't think he minds it. He has many other places to sit, most of which also include brine shrimp. 

 

He definitely has fewer ich spots than when he came in. (At least a couple of those spots are brine shrimp.)

 

I like how the tank being set on top of my rug makes it look like he has a carpet in there. 

[Humblefish]

It looks very much like Ich from your original photos.

[Tired]

Well, apparently this heater I'm using currently is no longer turning on when required. I'm not sure if it just started doing that today, or if it was off yesterday as well. The tank's been at about 70F. Should I add another transfer and a couple more days to the treatment? It doesn't seem to be quite as urgent to get him into my reef as it was before, since he's eating quite well, and I really want to get the ich off for good.

[mcarroll]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, Tired said:

I ordered a brown clown goby from LA's Diver's Den, and he's come in with ich. Great. He also has a sunken belly, and doesn't seem to want to eat.

Not pretty.  Fish that don't eat cannot rebuild their immune systems or heal properly.

 

On 5/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, Tired said:

He doesn't seem to be in bad shape right now, as far as the ich- just a scattering of spots, probably brought on by the stress of shipping. No flashing, no heavy breathing.

Gobies are really sticky.  I'd wonder (more than once) whether if was just sand/dirt.

 

I would have given him a freshwater dip immediately upon noticing the spots – that's the first best chance you can give any fish toward a recovery.  

 

But that sunken belly and lack of eating will still dictate the outcome I think.

 

Unless...

 

On 5/26/2022 at 8:30 PM, Tired said:

Great news: he's eating! I finally got some BBS hatched, and he's eating them!

🙂 🙂 🙂

 

Unless you see him take (another) turn for the worse, I would hesitate to do anything more than feed him.  In other words, do no further treatments unless his condition dictates it.  If he's eating, chances are he will heal and fight off the infection on his own.   Treating him further may only interrupt the process of recovery and will definitely stress him out more.

 

If you are not using micron filtration and/or UV filtration on this tank – those would have been my #2 and #3 go-to's after the freshwater dip.  Medication should hardly ever be needed.  Even TTM (which is much better than medicating) is very stressful and should only be done as-needed.  And if your fish appear to be healing and getting better (not worse) then it's not needed.  👍

 

On 5/26/2022 at 8:30 PM, Tired said:

the amount of eggs that the kit tells you to hatch

I use a leftover measuring spoon from a Salifert test kit or from Ocean Nutrition's Instant Baby Brine Shrimp to measure eggs for one batch.....that's still plenty!!!

 

Check out the hatchery/feeders (combo unit) out there.  Some are as simple as putting in the eggs and putting the feeder in the tank....no further input from you needed – not even to feed – until the hatchery needs to be reset.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 3:54 PM, Tired said:

Velvet would probably have gotten much worse by now, right? He still has about the same number of spots, maybe a couple fewer, and there's none of that really fine dust that seems to be in a lot of pictures of bad velvet. 

Hard to go by what you read online about this stuff in a lot of cases...lots of hyperbole, exaggeration and anecdotes being passed around as information.  

 

Even if it's "only Ich" he should be dead by now if you just believe what you read. 😉 

 

Bottom line is that fish don't read this stuff....and his healing (or lack of) may not match up with the info you read.

 

The fact that he hasn't gotten worst by now basically means that he's kicking it on his own – with you to blame for helping!!  As long as he continues to get top-notch TLC from you he'll continue his recovery.

 

IF HE CONTINUES THAT RECOVERY FOR AT LEAST SEVERAL DAYS while still eating like a champ, etc....I would probably be comfortable enough to move him to the main display (which you said is new I think, so otherwise vacant right?) – his stress level will be even lower and his recovery can go even faster.   He should also LOOK MUCH BETTER by then as well.  Use your judgement....but moving him will eventually be the right move to help him heal better and faster.  Add UV and micron filtration to the display at the same time you add him if you still have any doubts.  (Like with anything else, proper sizing and setup of those filters is important.  You aren't killing algae spores, you're killing parasites....same UV but very different dosage.)

 

I hope this helps!  🙂 

[mcarroll]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:44 AM, Tired said:

Well, apparently this heater I'm using currently is no longer turning on when required. I'm not sure if it just started doing that today, or if it was off yesterday as well. The tank's been at about 70F. Should I add another transfer and a couple more days to the treatment? It doesn't seem to be quite as urgent to get him into my reef as it was before, since he's eating quite well, and I really want to get the ich off for good.

Sorry for second posting....maybe it'll be joined.

 

But having healthy fish is the way for it to be gone for good.   Re-stressing the fish (ie for TTM) when he already appears to be recovering actually increases the risk of a relapse.

 

If you're going to keep him in QT while he recovers, leaving him in place but using micron+UV would be much preferred/less stress.

[Tired]

I thought freshwater dips didn't do much for ich, since the white spots on the surface are an immune reaction and not the actual protozoan? 

 

I'd really like to get the ich completely off him. What you're describing is a way to get fish healthy enough that they can fight the disease off to a tolerable level, which I know is what works for some people. But I don't want ich lurking in the background, ready to pop up if it gets an opportunity. Outrunning the ich until it's no longer present means I never have to worry about ich again. 

 

I understand that TTM is stressful, but I've gotten a couple of hides involved. I catch him out of one hide and pop him directly into the new tank, meaning, within a few seconds, he's in a visually identical environment where he can hide again. I don't have to chase him around, just scoop the hide up, so all told it inly takes maybe 3-5 seconds to get him shifted over. 

 

Plus, having him in QT makes it easy to put lots of food directly in front of his face, without currents, corals, or hermit crabs stealing it. 

[Humblefish]

4 minutes ago, Tired said:

I thought freshwater dips didn't do much for ich, since the white spots on the surface are an immune reaction and not the actual protozoan? 

They don't. Crypto trophonts burrow in too deeply under the epithelium to be impacted by chemical baths or freshwater dips. Those are mostly useful for eliminating "surface parasites" like Velvet, Brook, Flukes, etc. Even then I wouldn't count on any chemical bath or freshwater dip to achieve 100% eradication. Some always manage to survive, usually inside a fish's gills.

[Tired]

I know that, for parasites on the surface, a freshwater bath may have some merit to knock some portion off and give a bit of relief. And since a saltwater dip will get leeches off of freshwater fish (I know that for sure, I used it on a sunfish), I'd bet freshwater dips might work pretty well on anchor worms. Anchor worms are embedded more, yeah, but they do stick out. 

 

And I guess a freshwater bath might get some of the ich out of the gills? Since there isn't a skin layer there for them to burrow under. 

[Tired]

I did another transfer today, and took the opportunity to take a quick picture of him before he went back into his tube. A good sign; three seconds after being put in, he whipped around and tried to eat a bit of dead grass that got in the tank when it was sitting out in the sun. Tomorrow I'll see if he'll take mysis shrimp. I'm going to keep him on a steady supply of BBS, but it'd be good if I can get him eating prepared foods in here. 

 

He looks a lot better! Colors improved (though that's hard to see in the flashlight), full tummy, pooping regularly. He still has most of the ich spots, but I've compared him to the pictures I took before. None of those are new spots, which I'm taking to mean that the transfers are working and no more ich is getting on him. I know ich spots normally heal faster, but maybe clown gobies keep the spots longer, since they have that thick slime coat? 

 

I think he's feeling better. He's more aggressively eating, and when I put the flashlight on him to have a look, he twiddles his fins, sits more upright, and looks up. I've been using a pipette to relocate clusters of BBS directly into his tube, as I'm hoping to teach him that I bring things other than the scary net, and it might be working. 

 

Tentatively thinking up names for him. Maybe just Little Guy or Little Dude. 

 

(Which do clown gobies start as? I know they're bi-directional hermaphrodites, but they must start as one thing. Not that a fish's sex really matters re. names. Fish don't have genders.)