Chloroquine phosphate for ich, timeline and fish appetites during treatment. Also, ich sterilization on surfaces.

[Humblefish]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:29 PM, Tired said:

And I guess a freshwater bath might get some of the ich out of the gills? Since there isn't a skin layer there for them to burrow under. 

Possibly

 

For anchor worms, I treat with dimilin.

[Tired]

Good news: he's feeling well enough to try and avoid the net while being transferred! Bad news: he's feeling well enough to try and avoid the net while being transferred. The next couple transfers are going to be a bit trickier. At least he's not especially fast. 

 

The next transfer is set to be on the 8th. When that transfer happens, it'll be on the 14th day of doing the tank transfer treatment, by my math. I am going to keep him in QT for 3 more days, until the 11th, and then transfer him into my tank. That extra few days and extra transfer is because of the heater not working for a few days.

 

I'm guessing/assuming that the reason we do transfers for 14 days for this method is because ich that's just 'hatched' from the trophont and gotten onto the fish will stay on for a maximum of 14 days? And I don't know if a few days of low 70s/high 60s will extend that period at all. So, to be safe, he gets another few days. I don't feel any real rush to get him into my reef, since he's eating the BBS quite well, and I figure it's better to extend this treatment period a little than to have to repeat it if the ich comes back. 

[Humblefish]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:51 PM, Tired said:

I'm guessing/assuming that the reason we do transfers for 14 days for this method is because ich that's just 'hatched' from the trophont and gotten onto the fish will stay on for a maximum of 14 days? And I don't know if a few days of low 70s/high 60s will extend that period at all. So, to be safe, he gets another few days. I don't feel any real rush to get him into my reef, since he's eating the BBS quite well, and I figure it's better to extend this treatment period a little than to have to repeat it if the ich comes back. 

TTM works by literally outrunning the parasite’s known life cycle. However, Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range:

Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F
Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG

Outside of that range makes things unpredictable. In warmer water, parasites typically reproduce faster whereas cooler water slows everything down.

[Tired]

Yeah, I'm crossing my fingers that the 3 extra days will counteract any slowdown the ich might have had from being a few degrees lower. 

 

He still has ich spots. They continue to be the exact same ich spots, no new ones, but I was expecting the spots to have healed up by now. Any idea why they haven't? Do clown gobies hold onto the immune reaction damage for longer, since they have that thick slime coat, maybe? Or could it just be from him generally being stressed by being in a sad bare tank with just one hiding spot? 

 

It's really too bad there's no (viable at home) method to test the water for ich. I'm sure someone could come up with some laboratory-viable method of straining all the water (probably sans brine shrimp) to check for ich. Though I guess that might require enough ich to be present that it could actually be detected. There's probably not much in this guy, if any is left. 

[Tired]

Lil guy just had the last transfer into a QT tank today. On the 11th, into my reef he goes! And he might still have ich spots then. They continue to be the exact same spots, not new ones, so the ich that made the spots should have fallen off by now. Definitely should have fallen off by 3 days from now. 

[Humblefish]

On 6/7/2022 at 6:13 PM, Tired said:

He still has ich spots. They continue to be the exact same ich spots, no new ones, but I was expecting the spots to have healed up by now. Any idea why they haven't? Do clown gobies hold onto the immune reaction damage for longer, since they have that thick slime coat, maybe? Or could it just be from him generally being stressed by being in a sad bare tank with just one hiding spot?

The spots should clear within 7 days if they are Ich trophonts. You shouldn't see any new spots whilst doing TTM.

[Tired]

Definitely no new spots (I've compared them to the photos I took when he got here), but it's been over two weeks, and the old spots are still there. They might have improved a little? I really am wondering if clown gobies hold onto that damage longer than other fish. Or, is it at all possible that those are scars? Can ich marks scar? 

 

He otherwise seems to be doing quite well. I haven't tried giving him non-live foods because I don't want to add anything that's just going to sit and decay, but he's eating well on BBS, and his colors are pretty good. 

[Humblefish]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:06 PM, Tired said:

Definitely no new spots (I've compared them to the photos I took when he got here), but it's been over two weeks, and the old spots are still there. They might have improved a little? I really am wondering if clown gobies hold onto that damage longer than other fish. Or, is it at all possible that those are scars? Can ich marks scar?

Might be this: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/bacterial-tufts-viral-nodules.6799/

[Tired]

Oh, is that what those lumps are? I've seen that at the LFS a couple of times. Mostly on little neon gobies. Good to know it's nothing too serious. 

 

If that was the case here, would they have grown at all? It's been about 20 days since I got this little guy, and the spots haven't done anything to speak of. 

 

I should have cleaned the glass before putting him in. He's in there, though! And he keeps doing little "!" twitches when small creatures move near him. 

[Humblefish]

Honestly, I can't tell much through the dirty glass...

[Tired]

Yeah, that's not a helpful picture for anything. The spots look exactly the same as they did in the picture on the bottom of the previous page of this thread, maybe a little faded. Pretty typical ich spots, as far as I can tell, except that they're weirdly stubborn. 

 

Considering that he doesn't have any new spots, and has been through a treatment that should have handled any ich, I'm going to assume he doesn't have ich. If it is bacterial tufts, sounds like he'll deal with it on its own, now that he's in the nice tank with all the hiding places and the tasty treats. He's not acting like he's slowly dying of some mystery disease. 

 

Thanks again for all the help. Considering I could keep a constant supply of BBS in the tank, this was probably the least stressful option to get rid of the ich. It's also kinda funny, somehow; exploiting the ich's life cycle, that normally makes it so tough, in order to get rid of it. 

[Tired]

He still has ich spots, which continue to be in the same places. He's acting fine, getting more and more bold, but he's not keeping his weight up. I'm supplementing with BBS, but I would really like to at least get him onto prepared foods, so I'm trying to get him to take something. Frozen BBS or freeze-dried cyclops seem like good options, and I have both. 

 

If he had non-stringy poo the entire time he was in quarantine, that means he doesn't have internal parasites of any sort, right?

 

I'm operating under the assumption that he's healthy, just, for some reason, not getting enough food. I'm not sure why that would be- there are loads of pods in this tank. Maybe he can't tackle the amphipods? But even then, there are plenty of copepods and munnids, if he'd go and catch them. Best guess is he's been too shy to venture out of his nook and catch enough food. He certainly eats vigorously if I give him BBS, and he's getting more confident about going out to eat. 

[Humblefish]

6 minutes ago, Tired said:

If he had non-stringy poo the entire time he was in quarantine, that means he doesn't have internal parasites of any sort, right?

Correct.

 

How long have the “ich spots” been in same exact place?

[Tired]

They're the same spots he had when he arrived, so, almost two months now. Same locations, same appearance, everything. There might be a few less- I can't get the best look at him to count, he gets spooked if I stare at him for too long. 

 

I know this isn't normal for ich spots, but wouldn't anything else have done something by now? 

[Humblefish]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:53 PM, Tired said:

They're the same spots he had when he arrived, so, almost two months now. Same locations, same appearance, everything. There might be a few less- I can't get the best look at him to count, he gets spooked if I stare at him for too long. 

 

I know this isn't normal for ich spots, but wouldn't anything else have done something by now? 

Probably just bacterial or viral growths: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/bacterial-tufts-viral-nodules.6799/

[Tired]

Wouldn't those have grown or shrunk at this point, though? Do those ever scar? 

[Humblefish]

18 hours ago, Tired said:

Wouldn't those have grown or shrunk at this point, though? Do those ever scar? 

They stay roughly the same size. Do you have some recent photos?

[Tired]

He's taken up residence behind a patch of algae on the glass, and also hides if I look at him for more than 20 seconds at a time, so I do not. I'll try and get some tomorrow, after I do a water change and scrape the glass. 

 

I did just get a decent look at him, and it looks like some of the spots have finally gone away. Guess his immune system is kicking into gear. 

 

Guess this means that LA sent me a fish that appeared to have an active ich infection, not a fish that did have an active ich infection. At least the tank transfer means he definitely doesn't have ich, if he ever did.

 

Now if only I could get him to take any sort of prepared food so I can fatten him up, we'd be good. I think the BBS are too small; he's eating them, but he doesn't seem to get enough before the corals snag them. Maybe I'll get one of those dishes that hatches the BBS and feeds them into a convenient strainer so you can dump them into the tank constantly without also pouring in gross shrimp water. 

[Tired]

I got him to eat One frozen adult BBS today, and he showed interest in but didn't eat another one. Couldn't get him to repeat it. He might be really skittish about how the food approaches him from the pipette, so I'm praying to the self-preservation instincts he hopefully still has that he'll get used to the thing and start reliably taking prepared foods. He eats BBS really enthusiastically- if only he'd do that with anything prepared. 

 

I'm feeding this little guy BBS on a daily basis, and lately have been trickling them out of a little container a few at a time so he has longer to hunt. It's still not keeping him in anything like good body condition. I've seriously considered pulling him out and putting him into a bare QT tank so it's easier to keep the shrimp where he'll eat them, since he was actually putting on a little weight in the QT tank, but that'd stress him out and probably keep him from learning to eat prepared foods. 

 

LiveAquaria had to have gotten him eating at some point. He wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks through "quarantine" if he wasn't eating. I just wish I could figure out how they did it, because they damn sure weren't individually pipetting food at him. 

 

The other problem here is that dumping a bunch of BBS into the tank means I need to do frequent water changes, and the water changes scare him enough that he hides from me constantly for a few days, completely unable to be pipetted at. I've only just gotten him to more or less stay still while I look at him and try to give him food, I don't need to scare him back into hiding.

 

Hopefully eating the one shrimp (and then no more, for some reason?) is progress. Even if frozen adult BBS isn't terribly nutritious, it's something, and it's a jump-off point to richer things. 

[Tired]

He has once again eaten a single big chunk of frozen food, then ignored that food in favor of hunting BBS. 

 

I've learned that clown gobies are often caught via cyanide, and that cyanide damage can cause fish to have trouble digesting their food. Which would explain why he's eating a bunch of BBS every day and still losing weight. 

 

Within the next couple of days, I'm going to put him in a breeder box, with the holes covered in pantyhose mesh so BBS are trapped inside. I'm going to put his favia chair in there, and give him a couple places to hide. That way, I can keep him surrounded constantly by BBS, without flow, corals, or general BBS lack of self-preservation stealing his food. Hopefully, if I give him a few months of having a constant swarm of nutritious snacks around him, he can gain back and keep some weight long enough to heal up. 

 

I wouldn't try this with other species of fish, but I think a clown goby should be fine in a breeder box for awhile. They're not especially active, after all. The trick is going to be providing hiding places that won't trap and obstruct his snacks. 

 

I'm also going to, at some point, get ahold of a trimma goby. Maybe seeing a trimma goby eat will convince him that the food is food, or get him eating it to avoid the goby eating it all. Do have to get a QTed trimma goby, though, and I think that's going to be a strategy for after I get him nice and fat in the Box O Snacks.