booboo Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Since my old thread on sponges was turning into a dwarf seahorse thread slaeyer and i have decided to make a thread on the advanced forums so we and other people interested can discuss many things about the species. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 If you have ANY questions about care of dwarf seahorses, or related critters, post a question below. If you have ANY advice you would like to add, again, post below. Link to comment
format32 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Or better yest just head on over to http://www.seahorse.org/ You will find pretty much all the inof you could need. Link to comment
Dr.Bones Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Ok I have a question.My dear sweet wife has been pestering me about getting a tank dedicated to seahorses.I have yet to start my research on this because I am currently trying to stock a nano thats ready.So,if I were to go with dwarfs what is the ideal tank set up size,filter system,etc.?Secondly,will they take frozen food or do I need to raise Brine shrimp?Twenty years ago,I had a 20 high that I kept a pair of Kudas in,and I do have some experience with horses,however technology and information have changed a great deal since then. With all due respect to seahorse.org,this will save me alot of search time on the site and help me make a choice of what seahorse to go with.I did a search on tanks and there was just to many threads to sift through and read at one time.I saw 97 pages on that search alone.Thanks much. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 1st bit of info needed would be needed... what species are you looking to raise? After we know that, then we could answer these questions more thoroughly... But the general rule seems to be as follows.... All speices can be TRAINED to take frozen foods, the process is very involved, and not always successful... some species seem to take to frozen much more quickly than others. Dwarfs seem to be the adverse exception to this rule, they seem to be exceptionally difficult to train to take frozen, but I have heard of success. Captive breed specimens seem to take to frozen much quicker than wild caught. If at all possible, order or purchase captive breed, it's much more eco-friendly Most any species of seahorse can be comfortably kept in anything larger than a 20 high - tank height is more of a limting factor than size though.... at tank that is at least 2 - 3 times the height of the unfurled horse height is typically recommended.... pipefishes need length instead of height though, dwarfs can be kept in a 1 to 10 gallon with 5 being typical. Get too large, and it's hard to feed them enough for them to really get anything to eat. Link to comment
booboo Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Yes seahorse.org is a very good source for information, but we made this thread so we can talk to people on this site. Why i am not a member of seahorse.org is b/c i am more interested in the species of dwarf seahorses then other species. Seahorse.org seems to revolve around many species but i am most interested in dwarfs so i figured we could have our own little disscusions on dwarfs. Of course we will try and help anyone interested in different species besides dwarfs. Some questions i have 1.Are most people using sponge filters or hang on back with intake covers of sponge?(basically what is the most common filter used with dwarfs?) 2.What do you think is the best plan for hatching brine shrimp regularly? 3.Is there anyway to help the horses get used to frozen? 4.Why wont dwarfs go right ahead and eat frozen? ( i mean if its floating around whats causing them to not eat it?) Link to comment
booboo Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 so slaeyer hows th update with your tank have you got any supplies yet? Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Your questions, my answers... 1> I'm using a hang on back Azoo palm filter with a small sponge covering the intake. 2> I plan to build another hatchery to offer bbs daily from each on a rotation phase so each hatchery has 24 hours of hatch time and 24 hours of maturing time. 3> I think the frozen thing is a complicated question. I think if you start out with live only, then slowly introduce frozen bbs to the mix, you can start acclimating them to frozen more of the time. Supplementing baby mysis, small pods, and rotifers will help vary their diet and keep a happy tank. Eventually, you could switch to mostly frozen and add live on a smaller basis. I don't know if you could completly switch to frozen as seahorses in general seem to enjoy hunting throughout the day. 4> I think that WC (wild caught) dwarfs are generally more finicky about what they'll eat than CB (captive breed). It certainly couldn't hurt to try introducing them to frozen from day one, they may take it. I plan to freeze some brine now, before I get my herd, so I have some on hand to tryout when I get them. I think that introducing a small amount of frozen along with live will improve the success of frozen foods immensely. If they take the frozen immediately, I will begin to offer frozen on a more continual basis until they eat frozen more than live. Maybe setup a routine of frozen 4 times each week, and live 3. This would ease my mind much more during weekend trips as I could leave instructions to feed the frozen to my fish-sitter. If they don't take to frozen, I plan to refrigerate some live bbs and instruct the sitter to feed them that instead. They should survive for several days in the fridge, and because of the lower temp, they take much longer to mature. I hope that my answers help you and others, SlaeYer Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I guess it's time I post my tank specs and a pic! My tank is as follows: 2 Gallon Hex from Wally World Removed UGF Modified acrylic top to hold an Azoo palm filer Discarded 15 watt incadescent bulb and replaced w/ 10 watt Corallife 50 / 50 PC screw-in lamp. Soon to be replace w/ 20 watt Corallife bulb 1.5 lbs black aragonite sand Small fake plant Large dried gorgonian epoxied to a chunk of lace rock (willing to make more and sell them - PM for sizes and price list) Old neon "castle" for hiding places. I rescued an orphaned green / pink striped mushroom from my LFS and placed it on the "castle". It has since attached For water, I use natural sea water sold at PetCo in 5 gallon jugs for $10. This eliminates the need to continually mix change water for the tank and is just plain easier for small tanks IMHO. Topoff is about 1/2 cup per day of filtered water from my fridge filter. While this does not eliminate ALL nitrates / phosphates, it is VERY close. I find that some of the calcium from my tapwater makes it through the filter, and I continually test about 50 on my test kit. Normal tapwater in my area tests 100 - 150 (natural lime in the water here) My hatchery is as follows: 2 - 2 liter bottles cut apart and epoxied together to form a single hatchery. Instructions are readily available all over the web - search for 2 liter brine hatchery I plan to build another to vary my hatchery supply and offer 24 hour matured bbs (still have yolk sak so no enrichment needed). In case you're wondering, I am NOT adding LR or LS to my tank as I do NOT want to introduce bristle worms, hydroids, aiptasia, or any other unwanted "nasties". Instead, I am relying on a small scraping of coralline algae from my 55 to provide life to my cycling tank. I introduced a small piece of octopus tentacle (used in my food mix - I make my own for my reef) to add an ammonia source, and speed my cycle time. When the bacteria have multiplied enough to consume it, my cycle will be complete (assuming my tests read 0). Tankmates for my dwarfs will be 1 or 2 turbo snails, 2 or 3 nassarius snails, and maybe a dwarf brittle star. I do not plan to add crabs as they may see the dwarfs or fry as food. My "detritus engineers" will be added after the cycle, and then later I will add 3 or 4 dwarfs. I hope to get 2 females and 1 male or 2 of each. Ideally, I hope to get 2 mated pairs. Because of the small size of dwarfs, 1 or 2 pairs can be easily kept in as little as 1 gallon of water and still have plenty of room for a dozen or more fry. If you have any further questions for me regarding my setup, or feeding routine, feel free to ask them. Now, here's a pic of my tank in all it's glory. It's taken w/ a Fuji FinePix 2400 Zoom 2.1 MPixel cam w/o flash on macro mode. Overhead lighting in the room is on, and my 10 watt Corallife light illuminates the tank. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Oh yah... I have no heater right now.... Currently, the tank temp before lights on is about 70 (room temp), and before lights out is about 74. After I add the 20 watt bulb, I will see what the temp is then before I add a heater. Is there any heater that I could place on the bottom or outside of the tank that would work (thinking about a small reptile heating pad type thing) Link to comment
booboo Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 so where are you buying your horses form? Link to comment
Dr.Bones Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Thanks slaeyer,you answered what I wanted to know.I am not ready(nor have the time) to commit to dwarfs.I really would like to give them a try.I thank you for your response.Since this is going to be my wife's project,I believe it may be wiser to go with captive bred kuda or reidi.She is a rookie and should graduate to dwarfs next,not first. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 No decision has been made yet on the purchase of my herd... I'm hoping to find a fellow dwarf keeper who will sell or trade some of their captive breed fry! Link to comment
booboo Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Ok i think iwant want a 2.5-5 gallon what do you think would be a good brand? Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I really like those little 2.5 or 5 gallon mini bows from WM..... Would need to change out the light for something different... but that's about it..... Link to comment
pappucho Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Any idea where I can pick up some dwarf seahorses? I saw this site http://www.floridacollector.com/hitchingpost.htm, but I have yet to get a response to my emails. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by pappucho Any idea where I can pick up some dwarf seahorses? I saw this site http://www.floridacollector.com/hitchingpost.htm, but I have yet to get a response to my emails. Here's a quick roundup of some of the more popular, Florida Collector seems to be out of the loop right now, but may return shortly. When he's available, he generally gets good reviews from purchasers. Florida Collector Ocean Rider - Sells CB Seahorse Farms Inland Aquatics Propagation, Inc - Sells CB Florida Pets AquaLand Your LFS (Local Fish Store) may be able to order some for you, or you could always try to buy some CB fry from a fellow herder (always a plus). While we're on the topic, there are a few things to watch for when ordering horses. If possible, do not order your herd during extremely warm months (such as July or August, or any time when the temp reaches triple digits) as their survival rate during shipping is less than adequate during these months. Also try to avoid extremely cold months or shipping to cold climates if possible as they are just as vulnerable to extreme cold as they are to heat. If there are any special circumstances that need to be factored in before shipping (such as the need for a heat / cold pack, or ship on mon, wed, etc.), make sure you inform the seller prior to shipping so they can make any arrangements beforehand. Also, the breeding season for dwarfs begins in early spring and ends in early fall. Something to keep in mind as there is less likely to be a large selection during the "off" months. If you can, try to order CB (Captive Breed) horses as opposed to WC (Wild Caught). Aside from the obvious reasons of supporting captive breeding programs and not decimating wild stock, they will be less likely to harbor diseases and parasites, and more likely to settle in quickly and be more likely to accept frozen foods. Hope that this info helps! Link to comment
booboo Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 I will probaly buy from aqua land due to a post i read on seahorse.org Or if i can captive bread from somone Differnet topic real quick If i get the mini bow 5 what should i buy along with it Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Probably need a different filter, think it comes with an in tank type.... I'd get a hob w/ a sponge prefilter..... lights should be ok..... dry black sand would look nice, and some fake plants or something to hitch to.... Can't really think of anything else you'd need Link to comment
theeges Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I am just wondering about the frozen vs. live bbs feeding. Don't the dwarf seahorses need the live bbs because of the nutritional value? Or would you be hatching them and then immediately freezing them. I was wondering because I read somewhere that adult brine shimp have the nutritional value of potato chips (to a human of course). and they would not keep a dwarf seahorse alive and thriving for long. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Originally posted by theeges I am just wondering about the frozen vs. live bbs feeding. Don't the dwarf seahorses need the live bbs because of the nutritional value? Or would you be hatching them and then immediately freezing them.... This would probably be the recommended course of action for feeding frozen. While it would not negate the need to continue to hatch bbs, it would mean that you could hatch larger amounts fewer times each week, say 2 or 3 big batches a week instead of small ones each day. Another option to freezing the newly hatched bbs is to refrigerate a few days feedings worth of newly hatched bbs. Due to the cold slowing their metabolism in the fridge, they should survive for several days, yet only have matured a day or two, thus keeping their yolk sacs. I was wondering because I read somewhere that adult brine shimp have the nutritional value of potato chips (to a human of course). and they would not keep a dwarf seahorse alive and thriving for long. This is very true, but frozen adult brine can be enriched in a solution of zoe, or other fortifying agents. Also, once you have a horse trained on frozen, you can begin to switch to more nutritious meals such as mysis shrimp, cyclopeeze, rotifers, etc. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Time for a tank update..... Today I added my cleanup crew. I grabbed 3 nassarius snails and 2 turbo snails. I'm also acclimating a few ghost shrimp so I can hopefully add them to the tank in a few days. I'm still looking for a dwarf brittle star, when I find one, that will be the final addition to my cleanup crew. I also rescued a couple zoo polyps that were growing in the sand from the LFS and have placed them into the tank. Hopefully they'll grow well in there along side the single mushroom. My 20 watt Corallife 50/50 Screw-in PC lamp is on backorder, but should be in sometime this week. And finally, I've been practicing up on my bbs hatching skills, and have found that although it's a bit of a pain at first, it's not much harder than any normal feeding now, and takes me about 5 mins to prepare thanks in part to having 2 hatcheries! ............................................................................................. Dwarfs are the next step! Will letcha know when I order and where I get them from! Link to comment
Hyshnari Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Neat-o thread! These are my 9 dwarves, if anyone wants a look-see. They're in quarantine right now in a divided 10-gallon tank after being treated with formalin for possible nematodes which may have taken out three other 'horses as well as all of the fry. Permanent home is a 4.5gal SeaClear hex tank. One thing that is a must-have for any dwarf owner is a book by Alisa Abbott appropriately called "Dwarf Seahorses". It's a great way to get started, although, of course, several bits and pieces of that book are somewhat controversial, so it's best to double check on your favorite forum to make sure everything's right before you dive in. Link to comment
slaeyer Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Thanks for the pics! Sorry to hear about your loss, been following your thread on sh.org. Link to comment
booboo Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hyshanari i saw those pics at seahorse.org:P I am booboo at both sites I have this posted at seahorse.org but i am having a feeling if i get my dwarfs then comes the FRESH WATER DIP ahhhhhh. Whats your expierience has anyone lost a horse due to a freshwater dip. Link to comment
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