Did seeding my new tank from my old make it skip a cycle?

[tviquez10]

With my first ever tank 9 years ago I'll be honest, I added Biospira from IO, live sand, wet live rock and added my clown. Never checked anything. I have read through so many articles since then because I want to finally get corals started and got a bigger tank, so I decided to check levels to see how it was cycling. The tank I'm referring to in this post is my new 40 gallon but let me add some history first before I get to my question. I got a 20g long in August and seeded it from my 9 year old 10g long. I did the upgrade because I was getting new flooring so it was a perfect time to go bigger. I didn't wait much before adding things back in it because everything minus the bottom half of the sand was going in the new one so I didn't really think much of it. I even used the same HOB filter and all of my rock plus some dry rock. I didn't think it was even going to cycle so I never checked levels. Then I got a 40g 5 months later.lol I really need to make a write up of all of this on my page one day, I know. 🤪I decided to test ammonia etc this time after adding a bacteria start since I was starting fresh. It's a 40 gallon Aquatop Recife ECO AIO cube with 40lb live sand(I really really wanted a goby so deep sandbed was a must) and 40lb "life" rock with a large piece of live rock encrusted with coralline from my established 20 gallon. I also used 3 gallons of waste water from changing out water in my established and squeezed out the foam from it into the water column. By day 4 with lights on a cycle, I noticed diatoms, tested and everything was at 0. After 6 days, I used a bacteria start(I ordered it and it took a while to come in so that was the delay in adding it on day 6). I used Microbacter. After reading the directions, I realized it said to add fish at the same time as it, oops. Diatoms even more now. Everything still 0🤨 Well, I guess I'll add more bacteria starter and go get some fish. Added a Pajama cardinal(They're one of my favs)and some coral(pipe organ, firework clove polyp and two zoa frags). Shortly after, ended up having to add the goby I put in my established tank to the new 40 because my dottyback decided to be a bully when he had been so nice to the other new fish I had added after him. Then had to add my giant peppermint shrimp over too because they wanted to eat the Rock Flower anemone. That one was an impulse buy and I really didn't think it would be a problem. Never crossed my mind that peps like most all anemones 🤦 Yesterday was day 10 after start up,  levels are all still 0 with lots and lots of diatoms. Just as a precaution I got Biospira on day 9 and added all of it because I then read on Microbacter that you shouldn't use live sand or live rock 😑I hope it was ok to introduce all of that bacteria😬

It took 3 days for the goby to finally eat some frozen and flakes but he hasn't seemed interested in all of the diatoms on the sand. He's sifted a little more of it as of yesterday (day 10) I ordered chaeto and live copepods because I plan on setting up a mini refugium in the back of my AIO. I really want my goby to thrive. I'm hoping I'll get them to reproduce so I can add more in my other tank as well. I've seen the bigger copepod-like critters every now and then in my 20 but wouldn't hurt to add more. Everyone is doing wonderful, the coral look great even after decreasing the white spectrum(Kessil a80) to help with the diatoms. I also shut off the skimmer that came with it before adding the bacteria. It was getting some pretty brown skim.

So after all of that, now I ask my question... Since everything is still zero, did I pretty much skip a cycle because of seeding it with so much from my mature tank(and bottle bacteria 😬) I haven't done a water change yet but plan on it Wednesday which would be almost two weeks after initial start up. 

Sorry this was such a cluster, that's about what my mind is like right now🤣 Thanks in advance for any advice!

[brandon429]

yes you can do that, its how they run reef conventions on time.

 

if you want it done right, and safely, we do a rip clean first then when you reset back up from the rip clean, its in new glass. that's the skip cycle way, zero cloud transfer.

[DevilDuck]

Yes, since you moved live rock and your filter with bacteria colonies already inhabiting your new tank. You basically did a giant water change. Most people when they move up to bigger tanks just move everything from their old tank straight into the new one. No cycling phase because your rocks already contain enough bacteria to handle the present bioload. 

[brandon429]

mis post, I see its a reflection post already done I thought it was a pending move.

[tviquez10]

@DevilDuck This 40 is all new except for a large piece of live rock. It has live sand and like mentioned, I used 3gallons of water change water from my 20 and squeezed out it's filter sponge in the 40. So just doing those things could've helped me skip the cycle?

@brandon429 That's pretty neat. I'd LOVE to go to a reef convention! Having kids and my career really put reefing on the back burner. My 10g really did well considering it was neglected for the most part. Although it was a FOWLR, so much easier to take care of. I'm really excited to get back into this hobby!

[mcarroll]

FYI, hard to read without some line breaks!  🙂

 

15 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

By day 4 with lights on a cycle, I noticed diatoms, tested and everything was at 0.

You need to start testing for phosphates AND be aware of the difference between dino's and diatoms.

 

If  "everything" including phosphates are zero, then you're encouraging dinoflagellates to bloom.

 

Can you post a pic of the dino's?  Might need to be a closeup.   And/or....can you run a test for them.   Take a sample of the algae and some tank water in a vial.  Shake the vial until the algae is completely pulverized.  Then leave the sample until your lights for an hour and see what happens.  If the algae "regroups" into a clump (or clumps) then it's dino's.

 

19 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

I used Microbacter.

19 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

Just as a precaution I got Biospira on day 9 and added all of it because I then read on Microbacter that you shouldn't use live sand or live rock 😑I hope it was ok to introduce all of that bacteria😬

I'm not sure I understand why you decided to add these bacteria in the first place?  What was the intention so late in the process?

 

21 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

It took 3 days for the goby to finally eat some frozen and flakes but he hasn't seemed interested in all of the diatoms on the sand.

Your goby isn't interested in any kind of algae – he's a meat eater.

 

This will be EXTRA-true if your algae is toxic (ie dino's).

 

23 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

the bigger copepod-like critters

Amphipods.  👍  Their population will rise and fall with the availability of food for them.

 

24 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

the coral look great even after decreasing the white spectrum(Kessil a80) to help with the diatoms.

Unless I'm mis-remembering that light is best for tanks that are around 12" deep or less.  I think your tank is 22" tall, right?  Unless I'm mistaken you might need a different (or an additional) light to make this work.

 

As for the light color, you should set the blues to 100% and then only turn whites up just enough for the things in the tank to look good to you.  Leave the other colors off.

 

27 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

Since everything is still zero, did I pretty much skip a cycle because of seeding it with so much from my mature tank

Yes.

 

28 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

I haven't done a water change yet but plan on it Wednesday which would be almost two weeks after initial start up. 

Doesn't sound like there's any reason to do one yet – quite the opposite if your nutrient tests are all coming back 0.00 ppm in testing.  Get your phosphates tested before you do anything.  👍

 

 

[DevilDuck]

8 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

@DevilDuck This 40 is all new except for a large piece of live rock. It has live sand and like mentioned, I used 3gallons of water change water from my 20 and squeezed out it's filter sponge in the 40. So just doing those things could've helped me skip the cycle?

@brandon429 That's pretty neat. I'd LOVE to go to a reef convention! Having kids and my career really put reefing on the back burner. My 10g really did well considering it was neglected for the most part. Although it was a FOWLR, so much easier to take care of. I'm really excited to get back into this hobby!

The large piece of live rock was responsible for allowing you to skip the cycle. This was the way it was done before bottled bacteria came around. The rest probably only helped minimally, but at the very least helped with some bacterial diversity. Listen to mcarroll and get your nutrients tested and at the proper levels (nitrate/phosphate) else your going to run into trouble down the line.

 

 

[tviquez10]

3 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

FYI, hard to read without some line breaks!  🙂

Apologies, I was rambling a bit.lol Thank you for taking the time to read. 

 

6 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

You need to start testing for phosphates AND be aware of the difference between dino's and diatoms.

I guess I was thinking this was a pretty fresh start, so I was focused on it "cycling" and didn't think about testing for phosphates so I will do that and the dino test when I get home. It's not slimy looking, it looks like dust. I'll try to get a picture when I get home also.

9 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

I'm not sure I understand why you decided to add these bacteria in the first place?  What was the intention so late in the process?

Since it was a bigger tank and I didn't have a lot to seed it with like I did with my 10 to 20, I thought it needed more to help bacteria establish.

 

17 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Unless I'm mis-remembering that light is best for tanks that are around 12" deep or less.  I think your tank is 22" tall, right?  Unless I'm mistaken you might need a different (or an additional) light to make this work.

 

As for the light color, you should set the blues to 100% and then only turn whites up just enough for the things i

I would like to get an additional a80, but I can't right at this moment. I was hoping to get the remote that goes with it for more control over all of the spectrums. 

 

I'll hold off on the water change until I know my phosphates.

Thank you so much for the info after a mess to read😬

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

[mcarroll]

32 minutes ago, tviquez10 said:

Having kids and my career really put reefing on the back burner. My 10g really did well considering it was neglected for the most part. Although it was a FOWLR, so much easier to take care of. I'm really excited to get back into this hobby!

I was thankful when "we got pregnant" that I had set up my tank with the best "margin of safety" for everything that I could.  A lot of folks want to be experimental and push the enveloping lots of different ways...this meant I had to do a lot of things different from "typical".  For a few examples....  I only had corals and inverts and much more/stronger flow than usual to assist corals in every way possible – which ultimately meant using Tunze flow pumps....others (ie most moderns ultra-wide, ultra-soft flow pumps) do not deliver in the ways that matter.

 

Anyway, without going completely into the weeds of my setup (click my username/avatar here on nano-reef and/or google "mcarroll" "reef" and you should be able to find LOTS of my threads), I was able to leave the tank virtually alone for almost 5 years while "more important matters" had my attention.  

 

Yes, I was able to leave my tank almost untended for 5 years.  🙂   It's possible with a little bit of experience and foresight that comes with it.  (But not if you run a typical rushed, overstocked, overfed, over filtered system.)

 

Almost all I did during those years was refill dosing containers and do water changes.  Water changes weren't aggressive, and I also took some LONG periods off of water changes.

 

Not really recommending this for anyone (unless it really sounds intriguing), but it seems like it ought to be good to know what's possible on this end of the design spectrum.  👍

 

(FYI, I was still observing the tank multiple times per day and spending time around it....just wasn't working on it.)