simplicity ecosystem theroy

[filefishfinatic]

ive heard talk of the 10" of a sandbed has bactiera and sponges that contribute to a reef. it is unsightly to have 10" of sand and it can be dangerous too. i think that it may be a good idea to install a small amount of zeovit in the sand bed to promote an unnatural level of life similar to vodka dosing and make the system have a higher level of health and life. i wouldnt go in all the way because then the tank would get addicted to it. i would just dose a bit. its comparing a glass of wine every night to getting drunk every single night. you could always go without the wine but you would have withdrawl symptoms if you got drunk every night. it might be that the secret to a stable zeovit tank is "less is more" 

[filefishfinatic]

this combined with light skimming with a becca wheel injection skimmer (i forgot the exact name but ive heard that type has a different type of skimming which makes the skimmate smell like the beach and it could be more natural), and cryptic sponges could create a hyper stable system of bacteria, sponges, and oxidization/ toxin removal would make the tank safer for fish and would create compatibility for corals such as leathers and lps. 

[filefishfinatic]

Azoo beckett wheel protein skimmer. 

[filefishfinatic]

then in the in flow side you put a ozone machine then in the out side you get a plastic 4x4 fencepost then make it into a algae trough. i might build a beckett wheel skimmer to test this on my 20 long. i might experiment with sps in it because my puffer does not touch my pavona. 

[TheKleinReef]

9 minutes ago, filefishfinatic said:

Azoo beckett wheel protein skimmer. 

 

beckett? like the dead  dying tech from the early 2000s?

 

super loud, pressurized, finicky systems that are hard to clean. Don't know why you would go this route for 20G. Those skimmers were designed to slam air into them making them capable of processing massive amounts of water.

There's quieter, less power hungry skimmer setups that do just as good if not better now a days.

 

[filefishfinatic]

8 minutes ago, TheKleinReef said:

 

beckett? like the dead  dying tech from the early 2000s?

 

super loud, pressurized, finicky systems that are hard to clean. Don't know why you would go this route for 20G. Those skimmers were designed to slam air into them making them capable of processing massive amounts of water.

There's quieter, less power hungry skimmer setups that do just as good if not better now a days.

 

thats the point. it skims more conservitavely and it oxidizes the water. power isnt an object. my objective of my 10g or 20 high is to make a beast with a small MH, a beckett skimmer, a modified AC pump. and an ozonizer/algae trough. i have a feeling that in old tanks, using these peices of tech. (beckett skimmers, MH lighting, ac pumps, ozonizers, algae troughs) create better tanks. if you read through books from the time, many are really overgrown. all those berlin tanks. they dont have crazy tech. using the beckett mh lights ac pumps ozonizers and troughs could be a more natural filteration method which could be better. you can combine this with a calcium reactor (has most of the trace elements) and some vitamins and phytoplankton. give the corals and fish the comprehensive diet of fats, vitamins and minerals that are needed to create life CHONPS carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, sulfur. 

DOC can go up the food chain and feed everything. 

[TheKleinReef]

Conservatively? Not in 20g it won’t. They’ll strip the water so clean you’ll be dosing stuff back in like mad. there’s a reason those amazing tanks from the early reefing days were massive with powerful filtration. To slow the pendulum of any swing down. Once the knowledge base expanded we developed a much more reliable method that became more predictable. 
 

none of that was “simplicity.” 

[filefishfinatic]

2 minutes ago, TheKleinReef said:

Conservatively? Not in 20g it won’t. They’ll strip the water so clean you’ll be dosing stuff back in like mad. there’s a reason those amazing tanks from the early reefing days were massive with powerful filtration. To slow the pendulum of any swing down. Once the knowledge base expanded we develop a much more reliable method that became more predictable. 
 

none of that was “simplicity.” 

miniturization. i would build a smaller skimmer and other smaller things. it is simple because its just a few integrated systems. this wasnt much of a matter on equipment. 

i am more of a gearhead when it comes to equipment and i respect obscure items that have more of a niche than the ai primes and other name brand equipment. same with my taste in reefs 

[TheKleinReef]

ahhh. a retro-classic is very different methodology than simple.

 

good luck.

 

[Isak]

I have been experimenting with keeping things as simple as possible since I started the hobby about 4 years ago. I haven't kept corals but have had shrimp, snails, crabs and hermits. For fish I have only really kept Clownfish as my tanks have mostly been in the 10g range. Here's what I have found out so far.

 

Deep sand beds are awesome. They can even look good if you slope them upwards towards the back of the tank. You don't need to make them that deep, mine are only around 10cm deep on average. I have stopped running filtration altogether since I have deep sand beds. This article explains them really well and also clears up some of the misconceptions as to why people think they are dangerous. In a nutshell, it's easy to use too coarse of a sand, which has much less of a benefit. It's also easy to crash the whole system if you disturb too much of the sand bed at a time, try to clean it, or keep a sand sifting fish that feeds on the life in the sand bed.

 

Macro algae combined with a deep sand bed and live rock eliminates the need for filtration. I have run a lightly stocked 30g tank for the last 2 years with no filter. Just a deep sand bed, some live rock and some macro algae (has to be one that grows fast). I just harvest the macro algae once in a while for nutrient export and do about a 10% water change every month. I moved that tank to a 15g one now and so far it's doing good with the same ruotine, but I have to let it run for another couple of years to see if it really works well. The book Dynamic Aquaria explains some other ways of using algae to filter larger setups, like public aquariums. It's very insightful if you really want to know what's going on in your tank.

 

So far I have concluded that the less equipment you have and the less you fiddle with your tank the easier it is to maintain and on your wallet. You do, however, need to spend a lot of time researching and be willing to not have a heavily stocked tank. Just removing your skimmer and filter and calling it a day is not the idea.

 

I think as long as you have patience then it's possible to do some very beautiful and stable setups that are super simple to maintain. I would encourage you to do your research and then start experimenting with one idea at a time, being careful to not make multiple changes together. That is really the best way to learn and to figure out what works for you.

[Subsea]

I doubt that a ULNS system could be considered stable.    

[Subsea]

14 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

then in the in flow side you put a ozone machine then in the out side you get a plastic 4x4 fencepost then make it into a algae trough. i might build a beckett wheel skimmer to test this on my 20 long. i might experiment with sps in it because my puffer does not touch my pavona. 

Where do you dream this stuff up?   Who is going to keep all those gismoes fine tuned?  What happened to simplicity?

[M. Tournesol]

14 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

i might build a beckett wheel skimmer to test this on my 20 long. i might experiment with sps in it because my puffer does not touch my pavona. 

you have a puffer fish in a 20 long 😦? I hope it's a Canthigaster valentini or Canthigaster leoparda (min 30G) because all the other puffers seem to need a much larger tank.

[filefishfinatic]

3 hours ago, M. Tournesol said:

you have a puffer fish in a 20 long 😦? I hope it's a Canthigaster valentini or Canthigaster leoparda (min 30G) because all the other puffers seem to need a much larger tank.

its canthigaster solandri but they are very similar. they are generally a smaller species to my knowledge. i think it might be because he is hungry. i bumped up my feeding to try to compensate. 

[filefishfinatic]

4 hours ago, Subsea said:

Where do you dream this stuff up?   Who is going to keep all those gismoes fine tuned?  What happened to simplicity?

the equipment isnt designed for simplicity. its like a watch vs a digital clock. the watch is more complex but it uses simpler components (lots of species of macrofauna, few species of microfauna) . its less reliable and efficent. a digital clock is simpler but it uses more complex components  (few species of macrofauna, many species of microfauna) all id be using is a beckett skimmer, mabye with ozonizer (i am looking into an oxydator as a substitute), a algae trough on the outflow a halide or just any natural spectrum light. a cryptic zone and circulation pump. the display (20 high probably because i would melt a 10 gal with a metal halide) flows into the cryptic refugium with tons of sponges. goes into oxydator or skimmer to detoxify the water, then the skimmer outflow goes thru an algae trough into the display tank. i might cut out the zeovits cause the only purpose of them was to encourage bacteria to grow. i think its fairly simple 

[TheKleinReef]

Almost as simple as a HOB, heater, pump, and water changes. 

[filefishfinatic]

you wouldnt have any way to battle toxcicity and move DOC up the food chain with that method though. yes thats a simple method, i do that but i modified my HOB into a cryptic refugium/ algae trough & i dont do water changes. i strive for stability over simplicity and this thread was focusing on macrofauna as opposed to microfauna. 

[TheKleinReef]

curious to see this set up, pics for the science pls

1 hour ago, filefishfinatic said:

i strive for stability over simplicity

thread title:

"simplicity ecosystem theroy"

uhhhhh which is it.

 

[filefishfinatic]

the simplicity is supposed to keep it stable. but it has a critical mass where too simple it instantaneously crashed and too complex nothing ever happens. 

this is the tank where that method is being used. (my signature) 

[Murphs_Reef]

8 minutes ago, filefishfinatic said:

the simplicity is supposed to keep it stable. but it has a critical mass where too simple it instantaneously crashed and too complex nothing ever happens. 

this is the tank where that method is being used. (my signature) 

I don't even know what that means anymore.. 

 

 

[TheKleinReef]

2 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

modified my HOB into a cryptic refugium/ algae troug

a pic of this is what I meant. a pic of an algae dominated display doesn't prove your arguments, which seemed to have vastly deviated from the first post.